D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Six is mine.
Phaedo's 1st basic skills training game: patience required
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Phaedo
Emperor
So 6 it is
I'd like your input Sal but if it gets too tedious, you can drop down to oberver status. It is of course your choice.
I'd rather not go over 10 turns. I know that not much happens in the beginning, but that's not a bad thing. The goal is to learn. If we are all taking turns and comparing differences, the less that happens will highlight small differences thht can then be analyzed.
So the next step is to decide what we are going to do for the next 10 turns
We are on a bonus grass so I'm assuming we want to move. The quetion is where? We want to keep the game in our city square. There isn't a chance to get on a river in one turn but if we move into the forest, we would at least have some river squares in our influence.
We'll learn more with our first explorer move and maybe we can't decide on the city until we see what we can see. If we move our worker on the game and move our explorer up, I think we will get the information we need.
I'd like your input Sal but if it gets too tedious, you can drop down to oberver status. It is of course your choice.
I'd rather not go over 10 turns. I know that not much happens in the beginning, but that's not a bad thing. The goal is to learn. If we are all taking turns and comparing differences, the less that happens will highlight small differences thht can then be analyzed.
So the next step is to decide what we are going to do for the next 10 turns
We are on a bonus grass so I'm assuming we want to move. The quetion is where? We want to keep the game in our city square. There isn't a chance to get on a river in one turn but if we move into the forest, we would at least have some river squares in our influence.
We'll learn more with our first explorer move and maybe we can't decide on the city until we see what we can see. If we move our worker on the game and move our explorer up, I think we will get the information we need.
Phaedo
Emperor
If you look at the full screen shots on page 2, you will see that we are in the bottom right of the map. That's why I would suggest north to the mountain
Twixmeistah
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2006
- Messages
- 34
My opinion of the first turn:
Settler:
One thing is certain, we are going to move the settler so that the BG is not wasted, and do that in a way that the game will still be in the city radius. So we have two possibilities for our capital, either the forest NW or SW of our current position. This depends on what our worker or scout uncovers in his first move.
Worker:
The tile with the game is our most productive tile (2-0-2, and 2-1-2 with road) so our worker should be heading directly towards there and start a road ASAP. Moreover, with moving our worker on the game, he will uncover some of the surroundings and with that make the choice for our settler a lot easier.
Scout:
I think it's clear after the worker turn as where to move our settler. So the scout doesn't have a task any more in finding a city site. He can now focus on exploring the area. We could move him N, S or E on the mountains. My choice is north, because it simply looks interesting there. Besides, if you go south, you will scout towards the south pole and limiting your available movement. It is better to scout towards open space, because the probability for settlements, resources and other civilizations is bigger that way.
Or do you guys feel that the near surroundings of our city should be investigated first, and after that the search for other civilizations should be opened?
Settler:
One thing is certain, we are going to move the settler so that the BG is not wasted, and do that in a way that the game will still be in the city radius. So we have two possibilities for our capital, either the forest NW or SW of our current position. This depends on what our worker or scout uncovers in his first move.
Worker:
The tile with the game is our most productive tile (2-0-2, and 2-1-2 with road) so our worker should be heading directly towards there and start a road ASAP. Moreover, with moving our worker on the game, he will uncover some of the surroundings and with that make the choice for our settler a lot easier.
Scout:
I think it's clear after the worker turn as where to move our settler. So the scout doesn't have a task any more in finding a city site. He can now focus on exploring the area. We could move him N, S or E on the mountains. My choice is north, because it simply looks interesting there. Besides, if you go south, you will scout towards the south pole and limiting your available movement. It is better to scout towards open space, because the probability for settlements, resources and other civilizations is bigger that way.
Or do you guys feel that the near surroundings of our city should be investigated first, and after that the search for other civilizations should be opened?
Given our position on the minimap, I say exploration to the north is where we begin. I don't see any need to scout the south pole just yet. I think the game is our best currently visible square and I'd like our first citizen to be able to work it asap. Given these two ideas, I'd say our opening moves should be:
1) Worker one square due west (onto game). Road to begin as soon as possible, unless river is uncovered that would allow irrigation. In that case, irrigate.
2) The scout's moves will depend on what the worker unveils. My hunch is that we want him to go onto the mountain two squares NW of the settler's current position.
3) Settler, like scout, will move according to what the other two reveal. I don't want him to wander aimlessly very long. Given what I can currently see, I think one move, either SW or NW, and plop settler down on the forest square. That gets him off the (known) BG that he's on, and keeps the game close.
1) Worker one square due west (onto game). Road to begin as soon as possible, unless river is uncovered that would allow irrigation. In that case, irrigate.
2) The scout's moves will depend on what the worker unveils. My hunch is that we want him to go onto the mountain two squares NW of the settler's current position.
3) Settler, like scout, will move according to what the other two reveal. I don't want him to wander aimlessly very long. Given what I can currently see, I think one move, either SW or NW, and plop settler down on the forest square. That gets him off the (known) BG that he's on, and keeps the game close.
TimBentley
Deity
lurker's comment: One possibility would be to move the settler SW-W. The worker could then chop (since Russia starts with pottery) and irrigate the game immediately.
I don't like the idea of moving the settler 1SE on top of the forest:
1. There might be bonus grassland under that forest which would make moving the settler pretty much a waste.
2. We would waste 10 shields which we would get from the chop.
3. This would also put us one square from the river. Founding cities one square from the river is not the best of ideas and therefore we would probably want to move the settler a second time which I don't like at all.
So, based on what se we see right now I would found the capital where the settler now stands and waste the BG. Losing the free aqueduct (if we were to move next to a river) will not hurt us in a very long time as we'd most likely use the capital as a settler-factory and keep it under size 7 anyway.
But, of course, this all might change once we've moved the worker on top of the gameforest and the scout on top of whatever mountain we choose.
1. There might be bonus grassland under that forest which would make moving the settler pretty much a waste.
2. We would waste 10 shields which we would get from the chop.
3. This would also put us one square from the river. Founding cities one square from the river is not the best of ideas and therefore we would probably want to move the settler a second time which I don't like at all.
So, based on what se we see right now I would found the capital where the settler now stands and waste the BG. Losing the free aqueduct (if we were to move next to a river) will not hurt us in a very long time as we'd most likely use the capital as a settler-factory and keep it under size 7 anyway.
But, of course, this all might change once we've moved the worker on top of the gameforest and the scout on top of whatever mountain we choose.
Phaedo
Emperor
We haven't heard from D'art yet but it seems we are all agreed to move the worker to the game first (I don't imaging he would disagree as the whole reason we took this save was for the game). There is some disagreement about where to place the city. Just for the record, I think you can just make out some coast (or an inland sea) 1 NW of the mount above the game. I don't think this really affects our first move.
I guess an awful lot depends on that first worker move. Maybe I should just make that one move and then post the screenies and see if we can reach a consensus. The other option would be to just post the save and we caould all place the settler where we think it is best and analyze the results. The latter option won't really help with MM skills but there could be a lot of value in seeing just how big a difference there is between 1, 2 or 0 moves in the first 10 turns.
We also have to decide how we are going to approach research. This will happen at the same time we found our first city. We have already decided to go for a warmongering approach. Do we do some Phil gambit or 0 research?
I usually do the Phil thing as it is easier for trading, but I have never really tried a 0 research pproach from the beginning. I don't really have a preference. I would really like some training on 0 research, but I think a couple of team members should have some expereience in this area if we are to do it. I know I will definately need some guidance in that area. As I was hoping this game would really help us none soem MM skills I worry that if we jump into some tactic blindly, we will end up biting off more than we can chew and we'll end up scrambling for the win rather than really learning.
I guess an awful lot depends on that first worker move. Maybe I should just make that one move and then post the screenies and see if we can reach a consensus. The other option would be to just post the save and we caould all place the settler where we think it is best and analyze the results. The latter option won't really help with MM skills but there could be a lot of value in seeing just how big a difference there is between 1, 2 or 0 moves in the first 10 turns.
We also have to decide how we are going to approach research. This will happen at the same time we found our first city. We have already decided to go for a warmongering approach. Do we do some Phil gambit or 0 research?
I usually do the Phil thing as it is easier for trading, but I have never really tried a 0 research pproach from the beginning. I don't really have a preference. I would really like some training on 0 research, but I think a couple of team members should have some expereience in this area if we are to do it. I know I will definately need some guidance in that area. As I was hoping this game would really help us none soem MM skills I worry that if we jump into some tactic blindly, we will end up biting off more than we can chew and we'll end up scrambling for the win rather than really learning.
Phaedo
Emperor
Oh yea, from looking at the start I think we can be sure that the river doesn't border the game. There won't be any irrigating it in our 1st 10 turns.
Also. I forgot to bring it up in my above post but we should also think about our first build. I think this is related to our research choice. I think a warrior would be best but the granary possibility is a real one with game and not a lot of big food producing squares around. 0 research gives us some flexibilty with the slider but as we don't start with alphabet, the slider could hurt us in a phil bid.
Also. I forgot to bring it up in my above post but we should also think about our first build. I think this is related to our research choice. I think a warrior would be best but the granary possibility is a real one with game and not a lot of big food producing squares around. 0 research gives us some flexibilty with the slider but as we don't start with alphabet, the slider could hurt us in a phil bid.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Phaedo said:Oh yea, from looking at the start I think we can be sure that the river doesn't border the game. There won't be any irrigating it in our 1st 10 turns.
Also. I forgot to bring it up in my above post but we should also think about our first build. I think this is related to our research choice. I think a warrior would be best but the granary possibility is a real one with game and not a lot of big food producing squares around. 0 research gives us some flexibilty with the slider but as we don't start with alphabet, the slider could hurt us in a phil bid.
lurker's comment: Since you are an expansionist civ, I would suggest one, or even two scouts as your first build. Meeting other civs early and trading techs is one of the great advantages of this trait; ditto popping goody huts for techs. For those reasons also, I would start with zero science; it is quite possible to get all first tier techs without research.
Twixmeistah
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2006
- Messages
- 34
I totally agree with Bucephalus. Scouting land (gaining technologies and cash from settlements and meeting other civs to trade these techs with) is now more important than quickly creating a settler factory and the need for science fundings isn't big that way.
The '0 research thing' also gives us freedom in using our lux slider and will grant us some cash for trading purpose.
I also think that the Republic slingshot would be too risky. We don't start the game with Alphabet, so we have a disadvantage right from the start. I prefer 0 science for the time being
As for the first builds, I recommend a warrior first (for the necessary defence), and quickly thereafter a scout (two scouts total will probably be enough, one heading north and one east) and a granary.
The '0 research thing' also gives us freedom in using our lux slider and will grant us some cash for trading purpose.
I also think that the Republic slingshot would be too risky. We don't start the game with Alphabet, so we have a disadvantage right from the start. I prefer 0 science for the time being
As for the first builds, I recommend a warrior first (for the necessary defence), and quickly thereafter a scout (two scouts total will probably be enough, one heading north and one east) and a granary.
go for 0%.
Republic slingshot can only really work if yu start with alphabet.
If we fid were still behind then researching literature or other techs that the AI ever build will help.
I like TimBentlys idea of moving SW then W.
Moving worker onto game then scout to the NW mountain should reveal whether that would be worth it.
I think that Phaedo's right about the coast. The prescene of a river also helps us. If it is a coast then W W or W NW may put us on a coast. Ideal would be WW as then were on the river as well and can chop and irrigate the game.
Republic slingshot can only really work if yu start with alphabet.
If we fid were still behind then researching literature or other techs that the AI ever build will help.
I like TimBentlys idea of moving SW then W.
Moving worker onto game then scout to the NW mountain should reveal whether that would be worth it.
I think that Phaedo's right about the coast. The prescene of a river also helps us. If it is a coast then W W or W NW may put us on a coast. Ideal would be WW as then were on the river as well and can chop and irrigate the game.
Well, I've never done 0% science. But I'll certainly go along with it. As regards the first moves, it appears that we are all (except D'Art, from whom we haven't heard) in agreement that the worker needs to go to the game first. Once we see what that reveals, we'll know more. Let's make that move and then decide the rest. And by the way, I can't see that coast. Doesn't mean it isn't there, but I can't see it.
Phaedo
Emperor
If you look closely NW of the mount, you can see a touch of brown (beach) and just barely see some blue. River tiles don't have the beach so it has to be sea or inland lake.
I'm going to post the save and let's all take the first 10 turns. Found the Cap where you think it will be best and decide your own builds.
It would be best if we agree on our research path before we start. We are gong to play from one of our starts and it would be best if we were all researching the same thing. I'm thinking Math then Currency. Currency seems to be one of the last thing the AI researches so with a single beakerhead at some point we may get it (I don't think it's likely but it's probably a better chance than Lit or someting like that). If we are going to go for the GL, I gues Alphabet would be best.
Maybe just save it a Phae(your name)_Phaedo'sSG_3000BC or something like that
Here's the save, just wait until we have a research consesus
I'm going to post the save and let's all take the first 10 turns. Found the Cap where you think it will be best and decide your own builds.
It would be best if we agree on our research path before we start. We are gong to play from one of our starts and it would be best if we were all researching the same thing. I'm thinking Math then Currency. Currency seems to be one of the last thing the AI researches so with a single beakerhead at some point we may get it (I don't think it's likely but it's probably a better chance than Lit or someting like that). If we are going to go for the GL, I gues Alphabet would be best.
Maybe just save it a Phae(your name)_Phaedo'sSG_3000BC or something like that
Here's the save, just wait until we have a research consesus
OK. Now I see the bit of brown. I say begin w/ Alpha. At 0% science, we've got some time to decide where we go from there. Also, if that brown is a coast, Alpha will let us build a curragh to go exploring once we settle on the coast.
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Scout and Worker should move before Settler.
Agreed. I moved the worker (first) onto the game and made a screenshot. If anyone wants me to, I'll be glad to post it.
Actually, I went ahead and played out my 10 turns. I haven't posted them yet because I don't want them to be a spoiler for anyone else. Phaedo commented earlier that we should agree on science before we start. Now maybe I just don't understand the 0% science gambit, but why would we have to agree if we're spending 0% on science and how long do we continue spending 0%?
Actually, I went ahead and played out my 10 turns. I haven't posted them yet because I don't want them to be a spoiler for anyone else. Phaedo commented earlier that we should agree on science before we start. Now maybe I just don't understand the 0% science gambit, but why would we have to agree if we're spending 0% on science and how long do we continue spending 0%?
Similar threads
