[Extension] [POLL] More Wonders for VP

[dostillevi]

Thank you, but unfortunately you're a bit wrong.

Ah I figured it wouldn't be that easy, but I thought I'd try regardless.

 

[dostillevi]

Ok! I'm giving this a go. First off, I got a great river start and built Mohenjo-Daro:

I then beelined Temple of Artemis since I seemed to meet the production requirements. Unfortunately, it isn't appearing as a construction option despite the listed requirement of Forest/Jungle (obviously these can't be on the tile where my city is). What's going on?

 

[AndreyK]

If you look at MW.pdf file you can see that you need at least camp/plantation to be built, then if you have Mohenjo - that means you have desert, so you can't build Artemis.

 

[dostillevi]

I see. Well then Mohenjo-daro may be broken, because I did not have a desert tile. That makes sense based on it's description though. I'm afraid referencing an external .pdf for wonder placement reqs is a bit too much for me though. Hopefully those can be added to the wonder descriptions at some point.

 

[adan_eslavo]

The pdf is rather for me to keep track of all reqs. Show me all eventual errors and I will try to correct them.

Help texts in WW tooltips should have actual reqs. Also Wonder Planner mod may help to keep track of them.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I see. Well then Mohenjo-daro may be broken, because I did not have a desert tile. That makes sense based on it's description though. I'm afraid referencing an external .pdf for wonder placement reqs is a bit too much for me though. Hopefully those can be added to the wonder descriptions at some point.

Basic question: do you use light or hard version?

From the phone everything looks fine.


EDIT: I suppose you have light version, so Mohenjo doesn't need Desert (he has only River req), so it was ok to be built in your city. Temple of Artemis was ok, but in Anitkabir was broken req with Temple of Artemis name, so it has only Forest requirement, which obviously you don't have in your city. I will upload corrected v0.13.4 then:

- fixed Anitkabir/Temple of Artemis requirement;
- deleted unnecesary print statements;
- corrected Anitkabir quote text;

 

[adan_eslavo]

First things first as a Polynesia and Byzantium enjoyer loving the appearance rates of oceanside wonders now.
Been playing the light version after using the original for a very long time and i really think the light version is too much with certain starts. All it takes it spirit of the desert + mojan and your capital lead enables you waaaaaayy too much almost to the extent of not wanting to build anything else. Then witht he huge production boost snagging Karnak and going progress and spamming settlers becomes easy to not punish.
Idk I know there are good starts that cant always be accounted for but this makes good starts GODLIKE starts instead. Original gave me a sense of city planning and having more emphasis on placement.
That being said is the harder version updated like the light or is light the new way.

I understand your fears about the balance, but light version was very expected by some players. My first thought when I started this mod was to make all WWs not so easily obtainable, so you could not spam them. Lighter version of requirements allow players to "aim" certain wonders, and I cannot do much about it.

When I set more restrictions, we're going back to hard part. When I change the abilities, then some wonders might not be worth building. Making seprate abilities for light and hard version is out of debate, because I would not have control over such amount of WWs.

Do you have suggestion how to nerf particular WWs without losing the overall flavour and hard mode value?

Before the patch - (haven't tried out the new one, game keeps crashing too often to the point that I'd call VP dead for me,) the best combo you could have was Nazca Lines and Wieliczka Salt Mine. From what it looks like, there's more balance issues than before?

Crashes come from VP. In this mod, when CTD comes out, I can easily reproduce it, because this means I messed up smth really seriously. But now, this mod is supposed really stable.

 

[dostillevi]

Basic question: do you use light or hard version?

I'm not sure. I might have missed it in the description, but I only see one download link for 13.4 (what appears to be the most recent version) and I simply copied the full contents of the zip into my mods folder:

If there's a more restrictive version I would like to take a look at it, but I'm not sure where to find it. I don't see mention of a full and lite version in the description.

I'll also take a look at wonder planner. Thanks!

 

[adan_eslavo]

I'm not sure. I might have missed it in the description, but I only see one download link for 13.4 (what appears to be the most recent version) and I simply copied the full contents of the zip into my mods folder:

View attachment 612176
View attachment 612177

If there's a more restrictive version I would like to take a look at it, but I'm not sure where to find it. I don't see mention of a full and lite version in the description.

I'll also take a look at wonder planner. Thanks!

Read all the op (I will update it, because... I simply forgot to do that before!). There are more detailed options to set in the mod files.

• Hard/Light requirements:
  • Light version is enabled by default;
  • if you want to change the type of requirements to Hard, find MW-REQUIREMENT tag in 1.WorldWonders/SQL/MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql file and change "1" to "2" (do not set "0"!);

 

[gwennog]

EDIT: I suppose you have light version, so Mohenjo doesn't need Desert (he has only River req), so it was ok to be built in your city. Temple of Artemis was ok, but in Anitkabir was broken req with Temple of Artemis name, so it has only Forest requirement, which obviously you don't have in your city. I will upload corrected v0.13.4 then:

In version v0.13.3, restrictions are light by default, I guess that's the why . I myself was surprised at the first launch before going to change the conditions.

 

[adan_eslavo]

In version v0.13.3, restrictions are light by default, I guess that's the why . I myself was surprised at the first launch before going to change the conditions.

Yeah, do not bother with the fact that Hard requirements are marked as defualt in the files. I suppose light should be main choice. I don't know. Maybe this will be the question for the next poll?

BTW: I split the mod op to half, so it consist of two posts now instead of one.

 

[gwennog]

Yeah, do not bother with the fact that Hard requirements are marked as defualt in the files. I suppose light should be main choice. I don't know. Maybe this will be the question for the next poll?

No problem, one or the other, I just need to learn to read the first page of the thread . But you already know my vote .

On the other hand, for the maxEra limitation, I not sure your text is clear, if I understand well, the limitation is activate by default but you write this sentence which can be confusing :

if you want to play with this restriction, find 1.WorldWonders/Lua/UniqueWonderRequirements.lua file inside mod folder and uncomment (delete "--[[" and "--]]" markings around) IsMaxEra function;

If I look at the code, just change the value in the SQL, right?

 

[adan_eslavo]

No problem, one or the other, I just need to learn to read the first page of the thread . But you already know my vote .

On the other hand, for the maxEra limitation, I not sure your text is clear, if I understand well, the limitation is activate by default but you write this sentence which can be confusing :


If I look at the code, just change the value in the SQL, right?

Good catch! It's relic of the past!

• Outdated World Wonders Ⓡ:
  • enabled by default;
  • now you will be able to block wonders from two eras behind your current era (f.e. ancient wonder in medieval era);
  • to disable it find MW-MAX-ERA tag in 1.WorldWonders/SQL/MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql file and change "1" to "0";
  • more info at #182;

 

[Bruhmoment]

Yeah, do not bother with the fact that Hard requirements are marked as defualt in the files. I suppose light should be main choice. I don't know. Maybe this will be the question for the next poll?

BTW: I split the mod op to half, so it consist of two posts now instead of one.

Yeah, do not bother with the fact that Hard requirements are marked as defualt in the files. I suppose light should be main choice. I don't know. Maybe this will be the question for the next poll?

BTW: I split the mod op to half, so it consist of two posts now instead of one.

Not necessarily saying I'm blaming your mod, but I don't exactly know the cause of this. Maybe I just don't have enough RAM? Looks like I'll have to disable some mods, I assume this one doesn't take up all that much?

 

[gwennog]

Good catch! It's relict of the past!

Normal, in a Wonder mod that there are relics and artefacts .

 

[adan_eslavo]

Not necessarily saying I'm blaming your mod, but I don't exactly know the cause of this. Maybe I just don't have enough RAM? Looks like I'll have to disable some mods, I assume this one doesn't take up all that much?

Bare VP consumes lots of RAM, but they did huge amount of work to optimize basic processes. Of course the more modmods, the more RAM usage, because of more lua functions implemented, but I would rather blame VP. Post logs on their github, so they could analyze that (they focus CTDs a lot).

I have weak laptop, but never had CTD caused by overloaded RAM. It's always error in the code.

 

[gwennog]

Just for the pleasure of complimenting you and thanking you , the first page of "MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql" is a pleasure of clarity to compose your custom mod, like a kitchen with good ingredients where you choose what will make up the dish (sorry for the parallel but I I'm French, that's an excuse )

 

[Bruhmoment]

Bare VP consumes lots of RAM, but they did huge amount of work to optimize basic processes. Of course the more modmods, the more RAM usage, because of more lua functions implemented, but I would rather blame VP. Post logs on their github, so they could analyze that (they focus CTDs a lot).

I have weak laptop, but never had CTD caused by overloaded RAM. It's always error in the code.

Last message on going off topic--, otherwise they'll start giving me warns
Really? Even when I disable all processes it still crashes in the middle/late game, and one mod just doesn't work correctly. I guess VP just can't handle that many mods - shame.

 

[gwennog]

Adan, after a lot of games, I wanted to report to you that I find that a city on a hill gives access to too many wonders at the start of the game. When we know (and necessarily only the player has access to this knowledge), it easily gives this:
Nazca Lines - Wieliczka Salt Mine - Parthenon - (Terracota Army, no hill but it is always in the series) - Oracle - Krak. this combination happens more rarely for AI because, I think, it less easily places a city on a hill at the start of the game. If so, it is often it which makes the series .

I will look to change the restriction of the Nazca lines which is mostly a rocky desert with little or no vegetation. I not sure it is possible but I will see something like desert and/or plain, no forest / jungle, no water (with +1 Food to Desert and Plains, +1 Faith to improvement on Desert, +1 Science on camps and pastures).
For Parthenon, perhaps Hills, coast, no fresh water.

These are only suggestions, of course.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Adan, after a lot of games, I wanted to report to you that I find that a city on a hill gives access to too many wonders at the start of the game. When we know (and necessarily only the player has access to this knowledge), it easily gives this:
Nazca Lines - Wieliczka Salt Mine - Parthenon - (Terracota Army, no hill but it is always in the series) - Oracle - Krak. this combination happens more rarely for AI because, I think, it less easily places a city on a hill at the start of the game. If so, it is often it which makes the series .

I will look to change the restriction of the Nazca lines which is mostly a rocky desert with little or no vegetation. I not sure it is possible but I will see something like desert and/or plain, no forest / jungle, no water (with +1 Food to Desert and Plains, +1 Faith to improvement on Desert, +1 Science on camps and pastures).
For Parthenon, perhaps Hills, coast, no fresh water.

These are only suggestions, of course.

Good, good. Please analyze that more, and give me more suggestions regarding Hard reqs. Now, when we have Light version, Hard can be adjusted a bit more.

I think we have too many Desert WWs to give Nazca another similar req. NoWater is what I think to add. It should help. Rest would be untouched.

Parthenon should be ok with what you say. Hard, but not impossible.


I remember, our long gone conversation about requirements, when you said, that with Hard ones, you must use your chances with Wonders you actually can build (with what you have), instead of old tactics where you chased certain group of Wonders. That is, I suppose the main goal of Hard requirements. Light will be for those who want to chase them in an old way.


@gwennog Do you have screenshots of such chains? Just curious about that. Can they build them all in one city?