[Extension] [POLL] More Wonders for VP

[gwennog]

Good, good. Please analyze that more, and give me more suggestions regarding Hard reqs. Now, when we have Light version, Hard can be adjusted a bit more.

I think we have too many Desert WWs to give Nazca another similar req. NoWater is what I think to add. It should help. Rest would be untouched.

Yes, if you add coast for the Parthenon, you already have two differents lines. The conditions for the Terracotta Army should be changed, no coast/Quarry (2), or no coast/Quarry (1)/a lot of workers or a big enough city.

Parthenon should be ok with what you say. Hard, but not impossible.

Same throught .

I remember, our long gone conversation about requirements, when you said, that with Hard ones, you must use your chances with Wonders you actually can build (with what you have), instead of old tactics where you chased certain group of Wonders. That is, I suppose the main goal of Hard requirements. Light will be for those who want to chase them in an old way.

Yes, I have to say that I have become a top hill location hunter to do the series, which is not the point .

@gwennog Do you have screenshots of such chains? Just curious about that. Can they build them all in one city?
Not always all of them, but a lot. I think I have a game going with something like this. I run to take a screenshot.

 

[gwennog]

@gwennog Do you have screenshots of such chains? Just curious about that. Can they build them all in one city?

No sorry for the chain but in my current game, I have 4 cities on hill and the wonders are therefore shared :

Spoiler City 1 :

Spoiler City 2 :

Spoiler City 3 :

Spoiler City 4 :

but I'll be careful to keep that in a next game.

 

[gwennog]

I remember, our long gone conversation about requirements, when you said, that with Hard ones, you must use your chances with Wonders you actually can build (with what you have), instead of old tactics where you chased certain group of Wonders. That is, I suppose the main goal of Hard requirements.

Yes, I still think that, there are too many wonders available, the goal, I think, would be for there to be per player, just a little more than in a normal game.
For example, in my game :

Spoiler me : 19 Wonders :

Spoiler and the next 10 wonders :

Spoiler and the next :

 

[Histomen]

I understand your fears about the balance, but light version was very expected by some players. My first thought when I started this mod was to make all WWs not so easily obtainable, so you could not spam them. Lighter version of requirements allow players to "aim" certain wonders, and I cannot do much about it.

When I set more restrictions, we're going back to hard part. When I change the abilities, then some wonders might not be worth building. Making seprate abilities for light and hard version is out of debate, because I would not have control over such amount of WWs.

Do you have suggestion how to nerf particular WWs without losing the overall flavour and hard mode value?Crashes come from VP. In this mod, when CTD comes out, I can easily reproduce it, because this means I messed up smth really seriously. But now, this mod is supposed really stable.

I'll be doing some flip flopping between hard and light versions for a few games with different gameplans in mind and see what works well and what works too well for little effort. Gonna try and see if there's a balanced line between opportunity of building it and locational variance. If i used my imagination a bit id guess maybe setting Mohenjo daro to desert requirements because something i can see is it doing too much in plains with forests and heavy rivers, an opportunity to land on a hill and get crazy yields with nazca.

Was doing reading on the Indus people and I think maybe keeping the food bonus and increasing the faith while getting rid of the well and adding culture on stone and bronze maybe? It will add bonus synergy to gobekli tepe which would definitely increase the build rate of it in my games because currently i never build it unless i see a lucky cluster of stone nearby.

 

[dostillevi]

Giving the hard version a shot, and I wanted to point out that almost none of the ancient and prehistoric wonders are available to a coastal tundra start on flat terrain. The two that might be possible are Skara Brae and Temple of Artemis. I think the Majorville Medicine Wheel should be allowed on a coastal start, since it's primarily a tundra wonder, and there are no ancient or prehistoric wonders that specifically target coastal cities.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Yes, I still think that, there are too many wonders available, the goal, I think, would be for there to be per player, just a little more than in a normal game.
For example, in my game :

Spoiler me : 19 Wonders :

View attachment 612193

Spoiler and the next 10 wonders :

View attachment 612194

Spoiler and the next :

View attachment 612195

Do you play with Max Era restriction on?

I'll be doing some flip flopping between hard and light versions for a few games with different gameplans in mind and see what works well and what works too well for little effort. Gonna try and see if there's a balanced line between opportunity of building it and locational variance. If i used my imagination a bit id guess maybe setting Mohenjo daro to desert requirements because something i can see is it doing too much in plains with forests and heavy rivers, an opportunity to land on a hill and get crazy yields with nazca.

Was doing reading on the Indus people and I think maybe keeping the food bonus and increasing the faith while getting rid of the well and adding culture on stone and bronze maybe? It will add bonus synergy to gobekli tepe which would definitely increase the build rate of it in my games because currently i never build it unless i see a lucky cluster of stone nearby.

I'm waiting for more detailed suggestions and conclusions. If you can post concrete examples like in my op. It will be easier for me to analyze them and compare.

Giving the hard version a shot, and I wanted to point out that almost none of the ancient and prehistoric wonders are available to a coastal tundra start on flat terrain. The two that might be possible are Skara Brae and Temple of Artemis. I think the Majorville Medicine Wheel should be allowed on a coastal start, since it's primarily a tundra wonder, and there are no ancient or prehistoric wonders that specifically target coastal cities.

Noted.

 

[gwennog]

Do you play with Max Era restriction on?

Yes, I play with, in King. I missed Altamira Cave but I think it the only one due to Max Era restriction in this game. Other, of course, due to restrictions.
I must point out that I was quickly in the first for science (with China) which helps and that I am quite familiar with the preferences in wonders of AI and the restrictions of MW.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Yes, I play with, in King. I missed Altamira Cave but I think it the only one due to Max Era restriction in this game. Other, of course, due to restrictions.
I must point out that I was quickly in the first for science (with China) which helps and that I am quite familiar with the preferences in wonders of AI and the restrictions of MW.

Do you think further increasing the cost of WWs when you have some from the same era, previous eras etc. will help? I increased that already a bit.

 

[adan_eslavo]

v0.13.5 out for the testing:

- increased the cost modifiers for WWs already built to 50/35/25% (was 35/20/15%);
- changed requirements in hard mode:
    - Majorville Medicine Wheel: added Hill; removed NoCoast;
    - Nazca Lines: added NoWater; removed Camp;
    - Parthenon: added Coast;
    - Terracota Army: increased the number of Mines/Quarries to 2 (was 1);
    - Autobahn: added Factory and Arsenal;
- fixed Great Zimbabwe 3 Mines/Camps requirement (was 2);
- fixed Autobahn requirement description (had Manufactory);
- fixes and clarified descriptions in configuration part (MainRulesForWonders.sql file);

Additional notes:

• I changed NoCoast to Hill in Majorville, but if it doesn't work, then I will change it again for something else;
• building cost are now much more punishing for WW spammers; this should lower the overall number of WWs build;

 

[gwennog]

Do you think further increasing the cost of WWs when you have some from the same era, previous eras etc. will help? I increased that already a bit.

Yes, I think.

v0.13.5 out for the testing:

OK, cool. I will test. Just for Majorville, it's now a precursor Wonder of the hill series, but I test.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Just for Majorville, it's now a precursor Wonder of the hill series, but I test.

Yeah, I know, but Tundra should stop it. I can add the Terrain restriction if needed (Plains or Desert).

 

[adan_eslavo]

Preparing art for new World Wonders:

Can you guess which? If yes, then it means my art didn't degenerate

 

[Hinin]

Can you guess which? If yes, then it means my art didn't degenerate

Best Korea, best night sky, best polar station and best wall-e ?

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Kim Dong Un would be proud

 

[gwennog]

Can you guess which? If yes, then it means my art didn't degenerate

Still, I'm sure I haven't seen any wonders on The Thing or The Martian .
Very beautiful .

 

[Kim Dong Un]

@Kim Dong Un would be proud

Glorious work! You were a few pixels away from your demise; as you know, any portrayal of the Supreme Leaders must include no less than the entire scope/scale of their pristine figures -- failing to do so has the most dire of consequences. I'm also pleased that you didn't end up using the same picture I have for my icon.

 

[AndreyK]

I am not sure that comes from MWfVP or from base VP, but seems very strange that I get more culture from GWs in museum then from them in Notre Dam. As you can see I get 20 culture per turn less after moving GW to Notre Dam

 

[adan_eslavo]

I am not sure that comes from MWfVP or from base VP, but seems very strange that I get more culture from GWs in museum then from them in Notre Dam. As you can see I get 20 culture per turn less after moving GW to Notre Dam

View attachment 612649 View attachment 612649 View attachment 612650

Maybe it's because you get Theming bonus in Museum, while Notre Dame gives you / instead?

I didn't change anything related to Museums or Notre Dame, beside giving them some flat bonuses from other WWs (f.e. Museum Island). So it must come from VP.

 

[HeroOfTheSword]

Hi, just noticed an issue with the Chand Baori in the hard requirements version. I play 3rd and 4th unique components mod and when I'm playing as Egypt I can't build the Chand as you need a well, but Egypt doesn't have wells due to the Nilometer building. I can just remove the code myself but thought maybe I should bring it your attention. Fantastic Mod otherwise!

 

[adan_eslavo]

I use ready database function: Building_ClassesNeededInCity. It has an exception built in, to check for the uniques, too. Please, check other similar wonders and unique buldings and make sure you can't build any wonder of that kind, and if the problem persists, post an issue on VP github, and link for that issue here in this thread for my information.

What is your mod load order? If MW loads before MUC, then it also may be the culprit, but I'm not 100% sure.

Here is the old topic: link. I have no time for checking that, now, so if you could investigate the issue, it would be awesome.