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Polynesia

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by void_genesis, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Use Scroll Lock + Print Screen to get screenshots. Also I think you installed EUI wrong or something? It's all weird, icons are too big.

    But yeah Moai is beyond OP. It's not even just better than other UIs that come 2 eras later, it's not just better than Great People Improvements, one Moai is often better than 2 Great People put together - and it gives a free +20% CS to boot. I don't even think just removing the Production is enough at this point, now that +20% CS is a part of the UI. This UI was always the best in the game (or at least ancient era), though nobody noticed because it was boring. I mean, was it always ~3-4 Culture per UI in ancient era on the most easily spammable UI in the game? When something like Kunai gives +2F+1S, all those yields being way inferior to Culture, on a more rare terrain in much more rare conditions? Sure, different civs, but it's not like Polynesia has any weaknesses, what with a good UA (allows you, if anything, to get more Science discounts which you IIRC receive for knowing civs as well as settling way more locations for Moai) and with the Pikeman being decent. Moai are right now landmarks + manufactories at the same time, except they're easily spammable and disposable - if an archeologist wants to dig, you let him and rebuild Moai.

    Even AI Polynesia always runs away unless he starts near me and gets his stuff pillaged to oblivion as he stupidly lets all his army go away. Moai is the most broken thing in the game by far. I thought Burial Tomb was bad with its 5S 7C 2T in late Classical, but this UI takes the OP cake and devours it relentlessly, leaving not even crumbs to fill the stomachs of others.
     
  2. Greggy08

    Greggy08 Chieftain

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    I have problem with wi-fi atm, so I had to post with my phone. My EUI has always been that way since first installed, thought it was my PC's problem, in my father's one everything works ok and I installed the same way.
     
  3. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Maybe it's your resolution? I recommend increasing it. Or try changing stuff in Options. There's something called User Interface there, change it to small. Should fix it?
     
  4. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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  5. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Moais are believed to be built since 9th century. The more extreme nerf I can think of, so Swagolo stops complaining, is making it's starting tech somewhat later.
     
  6. dunkleosteus

    dunkleosteus Roman Pleb

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    Take away the production and give the nearest city a -10% production penalty when building it because of how difficult they were to carve and transport.

    They generate tons of culture, so they're going to be spammed like crazy.

    Alternatively, maybe limit where you can build them? Maybe only on coastal tiles that are adjacent to non-coast tiles, as I believe they were built in-land and dragged out. Maybe tiny islands don't have enough bedrock to carve them. Idk.
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    I dislike both ideas, sorry. If they are hard to build or not, that's for the worker units to say. And a coastline of moais is simply graphically amazing, I'd rather change yields or related techs if it's overpowered.
     
  8. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Moai is still the most overpowered thing in the game. It continues to outclass all UIs unlocked even in medieval while being by far the most numerous and easiest to place. Chateaux are worse than Moai and they're often ruined by resource placement - same with Feitoria which provides comparable yields to Moai (only AFTER its two Renaissance upgrades, which is half of the game later) while being present on less than half of tiles where Moai would be.

    There's no way getting more Culture in one city on an average start ( than pretty much Renaissance-era non-Guild cities can be balanced, mostly because it's going to be around 12-15 Culture from the Moai depending on where the capital is. That and production, and that's in one city only. And 20% CS too? It's not like a UI better and more numerous than Medieval ones after their Renaissance upgrades that comes in Ancient needs something like that too, it's broken enough with it or without it.
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    I'm not saying you are wrong, but I have yet to see anyone else agree with this. I think, given that the entirety of Polynesia leans on the Moai, its strength relative to other UIs is fine. But I'm open to discussion.
     
  10. Dawnbringer

    Dawnbringer Chieftain

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    While Moai is strong, I haven't had the "overwhelming" experience on a pangaea map yet. (Perhaps continents would be better, or the obvious archipelago)

    But I guess when the terrain aligns for you like those pictures, of course you'd snowball.

    I've tried 4 games with polynesia so far (all restart spammed until a somewhat favourable starting area), but it seems like I was lackluster every step of the way (tried all 3 policies). But being spawned between 3 warmongers and getting triple declared in classical didn't help (especially the FoY montezuma).

    Also, I was rushing masonry to get the moai production bonus asap. It actually feels a little clunky to have the UA be at the top side of the tech tree and then the UI improvements be in the bottom tech early on.
     
  11. tuska

    tuska Chieftain

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    Do moai's have increased production with masonry anymore?
     
  12. PapaRockett

    PapaRockett Chieftain

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    I don't think it's masonary, as far as I remember it's something else further down the tech tree. Engineering maybe?
     
  13. infidel88

    infidel88 Chieftain

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    Is it me or ability to travel across ocean and coast too early is actually hurting Kameha? They always go and found cities on other side or water or something, pissing off their neighbors and later or are unable to defend those cities. I can't remember when AI was on top as Polynesia.
     
  14. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

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    I do, but never on standard maps. I've done few games where the continents were ridiculously small compare to the number of civs, and Polynesia was able to settle all the little islands so had 10+ cities while most others civs were at 2-3-4.
     
  15. MorphBer

    MorphBer Chieftain

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    I had a game with Polynesia as runner up on standard communitas. My feeling is they expand well but are allways kinda weak military wise. So they stumble as soon as the inevitable wars begin
     
  16. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Certainty depends on the map. Tectonic works well sometimes, poorly others. Polynesia has done well in general for me. My most dominant game of all time was Polynesia on a largely water map with all other water civs and another player. I've never been so far ahead of the Deity AI without declaring a single war.
     
  17. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    If you can find a small continent for yourself, yours are the goody huts, and you can plan where to settle, without being isolated. Else...
    Also, it could be detrimental to settle in different seas. If you settle in different land masses in the same sea you can use a single fleet to protect everything. Otherwise, you'll be too spread out to defend properly. I found that sometimes it pays off settling one tile inland if you can form more moai triangles: more adjacencies, less coastal cities to protect. You really only need one city coastal in the other land masses to get the connection to capital.
    With a coastal flavour, Kamehameha may miss some potential good moai clusters. That's why some maps are so good for them. Have you tried it with fractal?

    But this is in human hands.
     
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  18. Mad Madigan

    Mad Madigan Chieftain

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    I almost always play on Communitas and Polynesia typically does pretty well on that map script despite questionable settling decisions. Polynesia does tend to oversettle on just about every island they can, which on Communitas can mean half a dozen or so 1-hex island cities with nowhere to build Moai. But the AI does well nonetheless, save that they tend to spread out so much that they have no way to defend themselves, so once other Civs get Corvettes and Frigates they start capturing Polynesia's numerous undefended island cities. Finished a game with AI Polynesia in play on a large Communitas map (pre-beta stable version, so 12-15-2 I think?) and during Medieval they had expanded to 16+ cities, but by the end of the game (Modern Era cultural vic from me as Japan) they had lost many of their island cities to me and other warmongering AI Civs. They still ended up in the top 3 score-wise, but had been whittled down to less than 12 cities (and they only had that many because they had conquered a few neighboring CSs in the late game rather than ally them).

    In other words, I think Polynesia is fine save that their early-game settling explosion can set them up for a late-game crushing since they don't seem to build very large navies (even though in my games they tend to love picking Imperialism and Autocracy), but this could also roll back around to how easy it can be to conquer 1-tile island cities in general.
     
  19. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    Polynesia's UI clearly needs faith, food, and science added as an adjacency.
     
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  20. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Also moving through oceans isn't enough. Polynesia should be able to move through your territory and settle cities within 3 tiles of your cities that steal 5 random tiles in addition to the normal 6 surrounding the city.
     
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