Porn Site Filters for the UK

[hobbsyoyo]

Interesting blog post from a someone who was sexually abused as a child: http://zine.openrightsgroup.org/features/2013/porn-blocking

Basically, she says that she didn't feel as though she could go to her parents, her teachers, or to any authority figure, because she had been instilled at an early age with the idea that sex is shameful, and should not be discussed in public. (This, of course, is the standard Christian/religious ideology rearing its ugly head again, brainwashing our children into believing that we should not even talk about sex, even when they are being abused, and shaming them into silence. C.f. Catholic priests.) She says that sex education in schools is focussed on the mechanics of sex, but not on how to stop unwanted sexual advances or where to go for help if you have been raped or abused. Choice quote:

Spoiler :

Credit to Cutlass for the awesome pic

 

[Grisu]

Why not serve beer to minors, then?

the equivalent would be to require everybody who wants to consume beer to have themeselve registered via opt-in. Try to get that one past beer drinkers

Why try to discourage excessive drinking?

Isn't that already being done?

Why limit where and when you can buy alcohol?
Why is consuming alcohol on the streets illegal in some countries?
Why do some countries prohibit it altogether?

Because these countries have silly, puritan laws?

But that raises an interesting point: What would happen if government were to try to regulate alcohol even remotely as restrictive as they try to regulate porn now? I imagine there would be a huge uproar, even though alcohol abuse is undoubtedly a much bigger problem in today's societies than pron abuse.

 

[Yeekim]

the equivalent would be to require everybody who wants to consume beer to have themeselve registered via opt-in. Try to get that one past beer drinkers

...which would be way less restrictive than the current system, where you may be asked to show your ID every single time you want to buy alcohol.

 

[Grisu]

...which would be way less restrictive than the current system, where you may be asked to show your ID every single time you want to buy alcohol.

you'd still need your ID so they can confirm you're on the alcohol list and that every time you buy alcohol I haven't needed to show an ID for alcohol in ages

of course, the funny part of it would be to think that such a requirement would actually do anything to fight alcohol abuse....with porn people somehow automatically assume that.

 

[Angst]

The line is consent, it's quite clear cut - as long as you're using the accepted definition of rape.

Are you arguing that before any sexual activity on film, both parties have to stare blindly into the camera and yell "THIS IS CONSENTUAL", or are you allowing at least some respectable degree of artistic freedom? What about nonpornographic movies that depict rough sex? If it's just an inserted clip, can you easily see whether it's rape? Can you see whether it's two adults playing?

Why not serve beer to minors, then? Why try to discourage excessive drinking? Why limit where and when you can buy alcohol? Why is consuming alcohol on the streets illegal in some countries? Why do some countries prohibit it altogether?

Minors can taste beer and they're ought to be told how it affects their body, and why it's not for them. It's discouraged because of health issues, not because of ickiness, which is the main reason this filter has been made. And mind you, the Danish state has actually run a quite succesful anti-alcohol campaign recently. It succeeded due to the parents both enlightening kids and parents about the social premises of drinking as well as the social and unhealthy consequences; why people drink to begin with, how to combat the social consequences when choosing not to, what happens to your body when you do, and for the parents, actually education in regards to how to properly influence your child away from drinking too early.

OPEN CLIMATE OF DISCUSSION
PROPER EDUCATED GUIDANCE TO PARENTS
PROPER EDUCATED GUIDANCE TO CHILDREN

Pornography indeed is potentially dangerous to minors. Any person just entering puberty would most likely be sickened by watching any hardcore porn, since that person would in no way be able to realize that the porn is not some documentary about the reality of sex, but merely a cheap amateur movie made by some people so as to make money, and nothing of importance.

So yeah, filters should exist where minors use the internet, but those filters should be maintained by the adults of the family. Not by the government. The ISP has no business asking what i want to look at over the internet or not.

If you have such a big problem with the kid discerning porn from reality, why don't you just tell it about it, and tell it how pornography is not reality etc? Why do you just hide it from it, pretending it does not exist? Then it's your fault that the kid is traumatized when stumbling upon it. Then it's your fault that it becomes a traumatizing element of culture to begin with. Oh right, weren't we in cultural-artistic decline right now? Every cultural product these days is worse than yesterday. Is it porn's fault?

 

[Borachio]

OK. I want to talk about pornography in general terms now. But, to keep it simple, I'll try and present a case (actually a load of questions) against it. (Just because reasons.)Then, everyone can pile in on me and tell me I'm talking nonsense.

Why does anyone use pornography?

Doesn't pornography degrade both the user and the person(s) depicted in it?

When was the last time you looked at a pornographic image of a girl (yes, I know there's gay pornography too - just bear with me, I'm keeping it simple) and thought "I bet she's an interesting person, I'd really like to meet her and maybe go out to dinner"?

Doesn't pornography essentially depersonalize the people depicted?

Aren't they objectified and dehumanized by it?

And isn't the voyeur similarly reduced to his/her sexual responses?

How would you feel if your mother, wife, or daughter were making money exhibiting themselves in this way? Would it colour your attitude to it, in any way?

Isn't every female, in every pornographic image, somebody's mother, wife or daughter?

Spoiler :

If that hasn't set the cat amongst the pigeons, I don't know what will.

 

[Angst]

OK. I want to talk about pornography in general terms now. But, to keep it simple, I'll try and present a case (actually a load of questions) against it. (Just because reasons.)Then, everyone can pile in on me and tell me I'm talking nonsense.

Why does anyone use pornography?

For pleasure.

Doesn't pornography degrade both the user and the person(s) depicted in it?

This very question is basically offensive to human sexual behavior. How can I degrade myself by masturbating or having sex?

When was the last time you looked at a pornographic image of a girl (yes, I know there's gay pornography too - just bare with me, I'm keeping it simple) and thought "I bet she's an interesting person, I'd really like to meet her and maybe go out to dinner"?

How is that the point of porn?

Doesn't pornography essentially depersonalize the people depicted?

Aren't they objectified and dehumanized by it?

How am I less of a person if I have sex for money? When did my chastity somehow become my forced identity and personal space? Why am I objectified when I make sexual practices?

And isn't the voyeur similarly reduced to his/her sexual responses?

HOW IS IT A REDUCTION

How would you feel if your mother, wife, or daughter were making money exhibiting themselves in this way? Would it colour your attitude to it, in any way?

Isn't every female, in every pornographic image, somebody's mother, wife or daughter?

Spoiler :

If that hasn't set the cat amongst the pigeons, I don't know what will.

The reason I feel an issue with my mother, wife or daughter participating in pornography is that the practice is socially stigmatized. There's nothing objectively wrong about sex, even when money change hands. The reason it becomes icky is that people stigmatize it, demonize it, reduce the very act - it's not something the porn star does, the consumer does, but something you do, Borachio, it's you who dehumanize mindless sex which just happens to be a part of most people's very human sexuality.

 

[warpus]

Why does anyone use pornography?

Humans love their fantasies and sexual fantasies easily top the cake. The biological need of sex is hardwired into most of us, but unfortunately most of us will never experience most of the things that are possible sexually. Pornography is a glance into a land that's incredibly intriguing. It arouses us and it shows us things that will in most cases never happen to us.

It's the same reason as wanting to watch fantasy or sci-fi movies like the Matrix or the Hobbit, except that you get a boner.

Doesn't pornography degrade both the user and the person(s) depicted in it?

How does it degrade the user? I'm not clear how it would. As for the people depicted in it, they're just having sex. In some cases it's seemingly degrading, because they get pooped or peed on, or whatever, but why is that bad? Actors take on degrading roles all the time.

When was the last time you looked at a pornographic image of a girl (yes, I know there's gay pornography too - just bear with me, I'm keeping it simple) and thought "I bet she's an interesting person, I'd really like to meet her and maybe go out to dinner"?

Almost never, but only because when you're looking at someone's vagina, a pizza's the last thing on your mind, unless you're really hungry or craving pizza.

Doesn't pornography essentially depersonalize the people depicted?

What do you mean by depersonalize? The "actors" usually play 1-dimensional characters, sure, and if that's what you mean then yes. But then the same can be said of wooden roles in non-pornographic movies.

Aren't they objectified and dehumanized by it?

Not sure what you mean by dehumanized, but yeah, they are objectified. Probably.

And isn't the voyeur similarly reduced to his/her sexual responses?

We watch entertainment because it brings things out in us. Porn brings out our sexual feelings and desires. We aren't reduced to them.

How would you feel if your mother, wife, or daughter were making money exhibiting themselves in this way? Would it colour your attitude to it, in any way?

No, but I would certainly disagree with that career path. I don't want people seeing my relatives naked!

Isn't every female, in every pornographic image, somebody's mother, wife or daughter?

Yeah.. but.. I feel like that's an appeal to emotion.

If that hasn't set the cat amongst the pigeons, I don't know what will.

Meow?

 

[Borachio]

Well, it wasn't a deliberate appeal to emotion, in any underhanded way, simply in an attempt to win an argument. (If that's what you're implying.)

I thought I was just observing something that's self-evidently true.

 

[warpus]

Maybe you just don't understand pornography! I recommend spending at least 4 hours a day watching various clips from various pornographic genres. For science

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Seconded. For science

 

[Terxpahseyton]

As for the people depicted in it, they're just having sex.

In newer porn it is often anything but just having sex. More like voluntary rape. In the golden age of porn of the 80s, it may have been just sex. Nowadays a more appropriate term is probably hammering. I read that porn actresses regular have to take pain medication to endure, while among the males it was also increasingly common to take drugs so can they can hammer non-stop for 30 minutes which are not exactly good for your health on the long term.
It is an established phenomena that porn is getting more and more extreme, and what used to be sex for money becomes more and more outright physical abuse for money.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Don't know what you're into these days Sill but I don't watch anything that hardcore mang.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Then you are increasingly an minority is what I am saying. It is probably also important to keep in mind that average taste of people who actually still pay for Porn may differ from your regular porn-tube-consumer.

 

[Peck of Arabia]

I often wish the directors and actors would run with the premise of videos a little more. Sometimes a bit of scene setting can make all the difference.


Jus' Sayin'

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I often wish the directors and actors would run with the premise of videos a little more. Sometimes a bit of scene setting can make all the difference.


Jus' Sayin'

Not going to happen. They put in the bare-minimum of a plot that they have only because they legally have to put in a plot for it to qualify as art. If it wasn't for the pizza delivery man then it would just be obscene.

 

[Formaldehyde]

In newer porn it is often anything but just having sex. More like voluntary rape. In the golden age of porn of the 80s, it may have been just sex. Nowadays a more appropriate term is probably hammering. I read that porn actresses regular have to take pain medication to endure, while among the males it was also increasingly common to take drugs so can they can hammer non-stop for 30 minutes which are not exactly good for your health on the long term.
It is an established phenomena that porn is getting more and more extreme, and what used to be sex for money becomes more and more outright physical abuse for money.

Violent porn is hardly the majority. it is just one genre.

I'd like to see a reliable source which corroborates that "it is an established phenomena that porn is getting more and more extreme". It seems to me that those limits were set long ago even before there were videos, much less the internet. For further details read Marquis de Sade.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I read on different accounts how porn got more extreme and if you compare 80s porn with say what is running on Brazzers, you will see some remarkable differences.
I don't have the sources where I read about it, nor a peer-reviewed study. But to me it is pretty obvious.
One illustration: In the 80s doing anal was something pretty special. Nowadays it is more like the norm.

I often wish the directors and actors would run with the premise of videos a little more. Sometimes a bit of scene setting can make all the difference.


Jus' Sayin'

Agreed. Guys can also care about atmosphere

 

[Formaldehyde]

Has video porn become far less restricted than it used to be thirty years ago? Undoubtedly. Are they now doing anything more extreme than was written about in books centuries ago? Not even close. They are actually far more restricted.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Which is relevant because?