Pre NWolfNES III

I'll go with a mix of both: Kanorin is the Great Earth and Wolf Spirit, but his name got changed after Kanorid claimed that he was the son of the Spirit, thus its name got changed.
 
Assatur
Starting Location: Northern slopes of the western hills.
Society: The Assatur Tribes hold a variety of different governments, typically resembling a gerontocratic oligarchy, where elder members of the community wield both spiritual and earthly authority. Beyond seniority rankings, there is relatively little division amongst the population, which is composed primarily of subsistence farmers, herders and gatherers.
Lineage: Lineage is typically unimportant except in the few tribes that have shifted into monarchies- one's parents and grandparents are known, but smaller tribes tend to behave as extended families.
Values: Assatur values are stoicism, respect of elders, and modesty. Families are close and united around their matriarchs and patriarchs, and this trend continues all the way to the highest levels of organization in the society. The world is seen as a terrifying place, and peaceful death at old age is sought, for premature death can bring terrible fates upon the spirits of the deceased.
Religion(s): There are many gods and spirits, and the terrifying majority of them are malign. Humans are little more than toys or less for most of the gods, and wicked spirits frequently commit smaller acts of spite and misfortune. Humans survive by communing with the sympathetic spirits, who are usually the souls of deceased humans, accessed through their bones or preserved parts of their bodies. These good spirits try to protect their descendants, but their powers are limited. Often, the best way to go forth is just to avoid attention from the heavens. As such, the ostentatious religious ceremonies of other cultures are seen as recklessly dangerous.
Past: The Assatur migrated north into the hills from the overpopulated river-lands of the south. It is quite likely that the Assatur come from the same group that also spawned the Formor and Kanor, due to linguistic and physical similarities.
Economic Base: Subsistence farming, herding, hunting and gathering.
Nation Names: Assatur, Shaktur, Hassatur, Nillithor
Person Names: Mallurin, Sillurin, Sopess, Kurlistur
Place Names: Haputh, Niurlinoad, Shothethur, Abasturn
 
For male children, I'm taking a page from the greek book: older males take younger males as "students" and give them "lessons" in "private" far away from other people, and teach them how to be a man and "take it". This is more a bond of brotherhood than father/son, especially as networks grow and wane sort of like fraternities.

Maybe there will be exclusively female towns with children, and wandering bands of males who hunt, farm, fight in the countryside and head to town to share their loot, get a night of fun, and maybe seduce "convince" several boys to join them.

You're talking about Apprenticeship, right? Please tell me that you are.

As far as my limited knowledge of history goes, most bronze-age societies were matriarchal, and it was the rise of Judaism that reversed the trend. Whether or not that is even close to correct, it seems (to me) to be the better way to run a society. We men aren't really all that good at long-term planning or resource management. Now sit tight while I go get me some booze and hookers! :crazyeye:
IIRC you are correct; bronze-age and earlier cultures had gender equality or matriarchs. It was the rise of the major monotheistic faiths that reversed that. I know that Greece was most definitely not matriarchal. But hey, this is not Earth, so it could be different.
I'm not a definitive source; you'd have to ask Dachs or somebody like him for that.

Did talk with Dachs. He said that it depended where you went. Women were (and still are) often worshipped or were religious heads, but there was defn. no greater number of matriarchal societies than there were patriarchal. Altho, in this NES concept, why not have mostly matriarchal societies.

Luckily for me, Terrance broke the double post so I don't have to edit the previous post.
I really like the culture system; it seems that it reflects a clash of cultures, or something like Alexander's spreading of Hellenism throughout the middle east, nicely.
From what I've lurked of N3S, the ruleset has worked well, so sounds good ;)
You should pick a nation there and join it or create a nation. NK is awesome moderator (almost as awesome as Immac)

*Snap*
As for the rivers, a bronze-age society could probably make a bridge over those rivers.

Rivers are wide, fast flowing. Bronze is soft, difficult to impossible to put supports into riverbed. It's very difficult to make a bridge. Bridges could be constructed in only some certain areas where riverbed was proper and thin, flow not too strong and river sides could support the bridge. Even then, bridges would not be as strong as modern bridges. This is why rivers and bridges played such strategically important role in the past.

Doesn't even need to be a decided movement and conquest: Diffusion and Migration would have been more than enough (especially if there are already existing people to mingle with) to account for cultural differences over large distances.

If two cultures meet and neither is too dominant or gets 'fresh blood' via slavery, trade routes, conquests or whatever, it would generate a more dominant culture that incorporates values from both cultures and disregards other values.

I'll go with a mix of both: Kanorin is the Great Earth and Wolf Spirit, but his name got changed after Kanorid claimed that he was the son of the Spirit, thus its name got changed.

You're trying to unlock secret level?

Spoiler :
66e731bcc4c38ce877cd21a3b8782c04.jpg

Here, Have a cookie.



Assatur
Starting Location: Northern slopes of the western hills.
Society: The Assatur Tribes hold a variety of different governments, typically resembling a gerontocratic oligarchy, where elder members of the community wield both spiritual and earthly authority. Beyond seniority rankings, there is relatively little division amongst the population, which is composed primarily of subsistence farmers, herders and gatherers.
Lineage: Lineage is typically unimportant except in the few tribes that have shifted into monarchies- one's parents and grandparents are known, but smaller tribes tend to behave as extended families.
Values: Assatur values are stoicism, respect of elders, and modesty. Families are close and united around their matriarchs and patriarchs, and this trend continues all the way to the highest levels of organization in the society. The world is seen as a terrifying place, and peaceful death at old age is sought, for premature death can bring terrible fates upon the spirits of the deceased.
Religion(s): There are many gods and spirits, and the terrifying majority of them are malign. Humans are little more than toys or less for most of the gods, and wicked spirits frequently commit smaller acts of spite and misfortune. Humans survive by communing with the sympathetic spirits, who are usually the souls of deceased humans, accessed through their bones or preserved parts of their bodies. These good spirits try to protect their descendants, but their powers are limited. Often, the best way to go forth is just to avoid attention from the heavens. As such, the ostentatious religious ceremonies of other cultures are seen as recklessly dangerous.
Past: The Assatur migrated north into the hills from the overpopulated river-lands of the south. It is quite likely that the Assatur come from the same group that also spawned the Formor and Kanor, due to linguistic and physical similarities.
Economic Base: Subsistence farming, herding, hunting and gathering.
Nation Names: Assatur, Shaktur, Hassatur, Nillithor
Person Names: Mallurin, Sillurin, Sopess, Kurlistur
Place Names: Haputh, Niurlinoad, Shothethur, Abasturn

Yay! Do hills play or trade with hill-people plays important role in your society? There are mountains and they are most likely habitable, at some level at least - think tibetians or even scots =)

Your religions is pretttttty nihilistic, Iggy!

That'z called pure blooded awesomeness.

----------

EDIT
Decided to screw terrain map. Land areas you'll play on are big, so there will probably be large varienty of landscapes under one kingdom/culture group. If you want to know what type of land (how warm and cold, how many rivers and lake, how large forests etc.) your culture lives on, you can simply ask from me.
 
This map shows nation/city states map (I messed up borders of krishna dominon, but smaller states have proper borders). X'es are cities. Red line is trade line (only one is shown at the moment and it is too long and almost circular, but this is what trade lines will look like on map). Question?

tradegoodsandnationsexa.png


This is map is rather large (filesize wise), because I could not be bothered with optimization.
 
You're talking about Apprenticeship, right? Please tell me that you are.

:rolleyes:

If a culture based partly on interesting *coughgaycough* relationships as its basis disturbs you, I can dial it back to "Apprenticeship".

Tenori Society is divided between Female-dominated towns, who control skilled crafts, raise children, and record history, government ect; and Male-dominated villages or packs which control hard labor (or for wilder regions, hunting), teach adolescents how to be a MAN, generally independent from the towns except for the purpose of getting supplies, a nice night, and grabbing a few promising boys with them.

A Tenori State would require a Tenori town to gain extra influence over the villages- such as brainwashing the boys they are raising to always worship that town, working at it over several generations? Still working out how they would form larger societies.
 
Rivers are wide, fast flowing. Bronze is soft, difficult to impossible to put supports into riverbed. It's very difficult to make a bridge. Bridges could be constructed in only some certain areas where riverbed was proper and thin, flow not too strong and river sides could support the bridge. Even then, bridges would not be as strong as modern bridges. This is why rivers and bridges played such strategically important role in the past.

You made the map, are there any good places for bridges near Kanoris (the city)? Also, I would like to know my terrain.
 
Can The Area the Formor Live in be a generally marshy area, with spots of Densly wooded areas? (I'm thinking something relatively similar to a combination of the Bayous of Louisiana and the Amazon Delta... This between the Two inner lakes) There should be a couple of Major water channels, allowing trade unencumbered between the lakes, but still, they should be pretty difficult to traverse.
 
:rolleyes:

If a culture based partly on interesting *coughgaycough* relationships as its basis disturbs you, I can dial it back to "Apprenticeship".

Tenori Society is divided between Female-dominated towns, who control skilled crafts, raise children, and record history, government ect; and Male-dominated villages or packs which control hard labor (or for wilder regions, hunting), teach adolescents how to be a MAN, generally independent from the towns except for the purpose of getting supplies, a nice night, and grabbing a few promising boys with them.

A Tenori State would require a Tenori town to gain extra influence over the villages- such as brainwashing the boys they are raising to always worship that town, working at it over several generations? Still working out how they would form larger societies.

It does disturb me greatly. I won't force You d to dial it back, but I can't see how society built on that kind of structure could last more than few hundred years. In history, at least in MY history these kind of cultures shall not last. IRL Once greek went too homosexual and focused on sex, their civilization went downhill.

You made the map, are there any good places for bridges near Kanoris (the city)? Also, I would like to know my terrain.
Sure there are good places for bridges. There could be even an existing bridge or entire series of these bridges. Write a story in NES thread, explaining why the bridge(s?) were built (maybe the bridges were built for military purposes, maybe a rich trader wanted to transport goods over river with less expenses, maybe you had a crazy-yet-awesome-builder and some warlord gave him an uncompleteable task - build a boat, that would not go down with the current but directly to other shore).

For update 0, rivers and mountainous/hilly areas will be natural barriers, that will slow down (or stop) immigration of culture groups. Just as they did in the real Life. Of course, cultures starting next to river will spread over the river, but slightly slower than they would spread on flatland.

After turn 0 it's entirely up to you how your nation is built up, if there is a bridge or raft system, canoes or swimmers.

Of course, if you want your nation to have road network, that would actually make a difference, then you should spend income to build it, maybe write a story to aid the process. If you want your nation to have awesome sea trade, write a story and/or invest money into building (or making it cheaper to build) shipyards, docks, setting up officials, taxes, depots etc or maybe invest money into making marketplaces bigger or perhaps invest money into making more goods than you need (having a large surplus would attract traders from foreign lands and would make your own people be interested in selling elsewhere) - there are many ways how to get more money.

Kanor is located in Humid Continental climate
Spoiler climate map :
climate.jpg
. More North you go, more hilly the terrain becomes (until you hit the mountainous area marked on map). I would not expect to have too many large hills in Kanor (town) area tho, as it's quite far away from mountains, but there could be hills. Area South (where rivers meet) is mostly swampy and has many smaller streams and rivers. Towards North, North-East terrain becomes more hilly and forests start to get thicker and older.

Can The Area the Formor Live in be a generally marshy area, with spots of Densly wooded areas? (I'm thinking something relatively similar to a combination of the Bayous of Louisiana and the Amazon Delta... This between the Two inner lakes) There should be a couple of Major water channels, allowing trade unencumbered between the lakes, but still, they should be pretty difficult to traverse.

Yes it can. Expect more wetlands, marshes, swamps and lakes near major rivers than on the flatlands.
 
I have to join but can't get the time to write :S

I need some info about the world. It's a normal earth-like non-earth? Same animals and vegetation? Humans only? Technology no magic?
 
I have to join but can't get the time to write :S

I need some info about the world. It's a normal earth-like non-earth? Same animals and vegetation? Humans only? Technology no magic?
Have to? Who's threatening you?


Normal, earth like.
Same animals. Same plants. Similar climate to Earth, but slightly colder version of it and far fever deserts.
Humans only. Technology similar to our world (tech-pace will depend of players and their nations). No magic.
 
I will let you judge my application once it comes it.

Sorry for the thoughts, but it just came naturally after I thought "Wait, how in the world can such a society be enforced?"

here, have some brain bleach while you wait.

Spoiler :
MotivatorBrainBleach2.jpg
 
Tenori, the Tenorii, Long ”e”
Starting Location: South of the Lake between Formor and Kanor
NOTE: It is important note that Tenori society is divided between the “Nursury” towns, dominated by Women, and includes children and elders, and the “Pack” villages/nomadic tribes, dominated by Men and includes “prizes”, AKA adopted boys

Society: In the Nursury, the religious title goes to Most Fertile Woman, or someone who has given successful birth three years in a row. If more than one achieves this, then the younger one wins the title unless the other has went on to four successful births. In the case of no new Most Fertile Woman, then either the most fertile daughter of the last Most Fertile Woman or the youngest Council of Mothers is chosen to represent the Nursury.
A Council of Mothers manage the town policies. Tradition (and thus age) is more important than ability, although often the older ones use the cunning of the younger instead of fighting it to support their causes.
Below them is the generic hodgepodge of merchants, craftswomen, ect, although in the Nursury a skillful craft is held higher than a nonskilled craft.
Then, everyone else who is not a slave is the lowest class, although they often have other privileges. This includes boys no “Pack” has adopted, men a “Pack” has abandoned, cripples, ect. These are not allowed to breed (unless it is a cripple of heroism) and are given tasks seen “fit” for them.

In the Pack, the Chief is the mightiest of them all, also known as the Alpha-wolf. Every year during the vernal equinox three men from within a pack can challenge him for control; generally throughout the year the men have already divided themselves according to strength with other duels. Although duels to be among those to challenge the Chief are generally to first blood, duels for the Chiefdom are to the death to minimize true opponents to the Chief’s rule.
There is no loss of honor for not challenging the Chief; it shows that a strong man respects a Chief’s authority. Usually such duels are common only when they suspect a Chief’s weakness such as sickness, or even *gasp*, mercy. To speak against the chief’s leadership itself, and not just individual decisions, without deciding to fight the next duel is paramount to death, however, via a thousand duels.
Any man is allowed to fight their way to Chiefdom.
Mirroring the Most Fertile Woman, the oldest man who can still keep up with the Pack on their daily run is the Foremost Wise Man.
The rest of the men are divided by ability more than tradition. An able youngster is given more respect than any Foremost Wise Man, or even a Chief.

Generally, each Nursury and Pack has several agreements with other Nursuries and Packs for certain meetings and ceremonies. These will start with trading and other mundane things, and will climax with a midnight religious ceremony where the Most Fertile Woman and the Foremost Wise Man couple in public. After that; orgy for the next generation!

Lineage:
All names are generally prefaced by the name of the Pack or Nursury when talking to outsiders.
A Women’s place in society is skill and knowledge, and they are known for what they are most skilled at, most knowledgeable at, their mother, and the Most Fertile Woman at the time of her birth. So Sarah Sword smith Darrenhold Sara Sarai; Her name is Sarah, her mother is Sarai and she is born during the leadership of Sara. She is a skilled sword smith and knows a lot about the Darrenhold.
One’s place in the social ladder depends on the number of children, especially those adopted early, as well as the relative importance of the skill and knowledge to the community they are in. High-ranked women heading for the Matriarchy are necessarily skillful and fertile.
A Man’s place in society is might and ability, and they are known by their rank, livelihood, largest game (generally with a knife), big brother and Foremost Wise Man. So: Jon Gamma Rabbit John Jonah is a man named Jon in the Gamma ranks, whose largest kill with the knife is a Rabbit and is adopted by John during the reign of Jonah.
One’s place in the social ladder depends on the number of victorious duels, but also one’s largest game and the rank of one’s Big Brother. A strong man wishing to be Chief would necessarily have defeated at least a Wolf and be among the top five fighters of a pack.

Values:
The central value of Tenori society, whether the Pack or the Nursery, is Community. The entire Community is your family; your adopter is your Big Brother and your mother is your Mighty Mom, but these are the only “intimate familial” bonds; the social network generally encompass the entire group, with preferences within but still.
Nurseries praise Tradition as their secondary value. Even when cunning new generations of ambitious women become mothers, older Councilors usually co-opt them into their own schemes and sides instead of directly opposing their radical ideas, eventually turning them into a mirror of themselves.
Packs praise a mixture of Cunning and Bravery as their secondary value. If you kill a fox with poison, you get no glory. But if you kill fox with poison by letting it chase you down and shoving it into an earlier cut wound in close combat gives you applause for your ingenuity after you lost your knife.

Religion(s):
The Nursuries worship Attulud, Goddess of Order, and the Packs venerate Goranul, God of Chaos. During the ceremony, the rite of coupling between the MFW and the FWM symbolizes the combination of Order and Chaos to create life, represented by a newcomer god, the Great Mother Wolf.

There are records of omens and such based on the different types of coupling between MFW and FWM during the ceremony, the intensity of cries and grunts. As they are the religious leaders, these are generally made by the Wolf-Chief or Matriarch while enjoying their temporary religious influence.

Other omens that the people ascribe to are the growth patterns of religious trees in Nursuries and the flight patterns of migrating animals for Packs.

Past:

The Tenori has always been here, and so has the system of wandering hunting bands interacting with female camps providing clothes and shelter. However, the migration of slighty more advanced Tenori from the southeast, fleeing from the Kanori, brought ideas such as agriculture and metalworking. The divide between the homecamp and the hunting pack became greater and greater until it became stabilized and permanent, with Nursuries having various influence among the Packs that they rely on for food, raw materials and protection, while the Packs rely on shifting Nursury loyalties for new members, tools, and shelter.

Economic Base:
The Average Women spends her time working at perfecting her craft. The Average Men spends his time gathering raw materials, usually through hard labor such as agriculture, hunting, mining ect. The interconnection of the Nursury and the Pack is necessary for the survival of them both; exotic trade goods travel by interpack trading, or as heirlooms moving through towns and packs hand by hand.

Nation Names:
Pack/Pack Dominated Nations: Horde=Mor; Horde of 'Gori, of 'Ani, of 'Uli; of Kanasi the Wolf or Arsasi "the Bear": Brother=Enul'; Brothers of "Founder";
Nursery Dominated Nations: Crib=Tas; Crib of 'Ati, of 'Tuli, of 'Udi; of Dedai the Heron or Anasi the Spider; Sister=Elud'; Sisters of "Founder"
Example: Mor'Gori is a Horde, or a union of Packs, who claim the power of Goranul's "head".
Example: Tas'Tuli is a Crib, or a union of Nurseries, who claim the power of Attulud's "heart".
A very strong nation might claim the name Moretas'Tenorii "Union of all Tenorii" or Moretas'Kanogii, "Union of the World"

Person Names:
Male: Sal'en, Tal'en, Gar'en, Kan'en, Sar'en, Dea'ed, Nas'en; "Goremor'en; Anemor'en, Ulemor'en" for prophets. Kanase'en, Arsase'en, Tarsase'en are exclusively male
Female: Sal'ed, Tal'eh, Gar'eh, Kan'eh, Sar'eh, Deda'eh, Anas'eh; "Atetas'eh; Tuletas'eh; Udetas'eh" for prophets. Dedare'eh, Anasre'eh, Marsase'eh are exclusively female.
Shortened; can simply take out the ' in the en and the eh without too much muddling.

Titles:
Matriarch=Ta'seh
Wolf-Chief=Mo'ren
Most Fertile Woman=eLu'deh
Foremost Wise Man=eNu'len
Chief X (i.e. Ruler of a nation)= Kano(blank) such as TanoMoRen-Saren-Enul'Nasen is the shortened form of the Great Wolf-Chief Saren of the Brotherhood of Nasen.
If the ' is taken out, capitalize the second syllable as well. A hyphen connects such ranks to the main name.

Place Names: Lake=Deda'esas (heron); Island= Dedata'esak; Kanori River= Kanasi'esamo
[Add anything else you want to say]
Naming is so complex. I'll do it later so I can get it right.

The same way we talk about the "head, the heart, and the gut" this is used on their traditional gods to claim names.
 
@Terrance
This is waaaay better than previous idea.

So I guess Kanoris is in a swamp? OK, then.

Does not have to be. Where your cities are located and what terrain they are surrounded by is mostly up to you. I said what terrain is more common in your area (expect to have more swamps, rivers etc. near major river). Kanoris cultural towns and villages can freely be located in areas that are surrounded by miles of grasslands, with rivers running next to them. Terrain is up to you, as long as you don't break climate or visible map areas - place rainforest in cold temperate areas or place huge grasslands on mountains/hilly landscape area.

Does this make sense? Am I confusing?
 
That is my original idea. I just left the, you know, out of the picture. It is not "needed", nor wanted, but its there.
 
Your religions is pretttttty nihilistic, Iggy!

That'z called pure blooded awesomeness.
It's also called being on a bit of a Lovecraft kick. ;)

Yay! Do hills play or trade with hill-people plays important role in your society? There are mountains and they are most likely habitable, at some level at least - think tibetians or even scots =)
Well, given that you described the mountains to me in #nes as being Himalayan in scale, it's a bit hard to say. Our culture might have scaled the mountains and have branches living in the highlands, or another culture might have arrived in the area first, or maybe the highlands are entirely uninhabited.
 
Spoiler Map for reserved areas :
reservations.jpg



Spoiler Climate map :
climateb.png


Spoiler Blank map featuring most important and wide terrain features :
normalb.png


Spoiler Nation Stats :

Nation - Player
Culture: Culture - %
Religion: Dominant religions in order of adherents (there are usually other, less popular religions)
Government: Type of government
Income: Income (treasury/debt)
Military: Forces (Upkeep: cost)
Description: Outline of the nation. Hosted in a wiki that's mostly moderated by players.


Spoiler Culture Description :

Starting Location: Pick a location for your culture
Society: Who leads ? Are there castes? Slaves and merchants ? Citizenship? Clans? Is there a dicatorship? Are there ranks and nobles ? Are there blue-blood leaders or are titles claimable by anyone?
Lineage: How does one know who (s)he is? Does his clan give him social standing? Or will the gold in his pockets rise him up high or perhaps, victories and loot rise one up on social ladder? Does it matter who was your father, what family you are part of ? And if it does, how?

Values: What does your society value? Is it built on love or discipline? Is death feared or seeked? Is there slavery and kings or free people and councils?
Religion(s): Is there a god(dess?). Are there signs associated with future? Is there belief of afterlife or rebirth?

Past: Where do you come from? Who were your fore-fathers, why did they settle here and how did your social system began?
Economic Base: [Give the general economic basis of life for your people] - How does one earn his living, what does he eat and how does he aquire things needed for life?
Nation Names: [Make a list of nation names for me to use]
Person Names: [Make a list of names for me to use of famous persons]
Place Names: [Make a list of place for me to use for notable places]
[Add anything else you want to say]


I'm going to create a NES thread in about half a day. I expect any changes to already existing culture and/or new submissions do be done by 3rd May. I hope this is enough time to finish editing or post your applications. I expect !finalized! submissions to be posted in NES thread. Submissions still under construction should stay in PreNES thread.

A wiki has also been created. I've also added example formating and very basic backbone for wiki. I'll love those nations and cultures created by wiki editors significantly more than those created by people who do not contribute to wiki. You have been warned. (OOC: My goal creating these articles was not to make fun over your creations but to show example formating and show how to use wiki in telling this NES. These first few pages that I've created are stubs and will be deleted soon after this NES launches.)

After 3rd may I'll start working on update 0, which will spread out your cultures and create very first nations.
 
All right, some mistakes in the wiki: Kanor is the culture of the city-state of Kanoris, not Kanorin. Kanorin is their god. I know the wiki is temporary, but still...
 
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