Pre NWolfNES III

[hbar]

hbar
Culture name: ?

Same as the Nation name (has the concept of "nation" even arisen yet?) Nation/Culture=Freyja, the people= The Freyjar, adjective=Frejarii (as in Freyjarii warriors, Freyjarii pottery)

The j is soft, so it is pronounced Fray-ya/Fray-yar/Fray-yar-ii

 

[Northen Wolf]

Same as the Nation name (has the concept of "nation" even arisen yet?) Nation/Culture=Freyja, the people= The Freyjar, adjective=Frejarii (as in Freyjarii warriors, Freyjarii pottery)

The j is soft, so it is pronounced Fray-ya/Fray-yar/Fray-yar-ii

No, concept of nation has not risen yet. You'll start with slight control over a small population center surrounded by your culture barbarians. There maybe a state or two who are similar to you (eg they will behave like nations). You're pretty weak. Also conquering large amount of areas around you'd be slightly unrealistic, because you own just a poor town and don't (most likely) have enough resources/manpower or reason to conquer anyone. Maybe you could annex few surrounding villages via conquest or build up trade relations with them. It's up to you whatever you go military or peaceful expansion way.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Formor
Starting Location: On a River on one of the Inland Seas (Or between the two seas)
Society: CLan based. There are ostensibly two different classes of leaders in Formor Society, and, depending on clan, the power balance is different. Regardless, in all clans, there is a Chief, who rules over the physical world, and a Council of Elders, who have absolute authority in all matters spiritual. The Influence these two bodies hold over individual clans depends alot on the clan and the charisma of the Various Members, and the ability of the two to work together. However, only the Chiefs are the ones to attend the clan meetings.
Lineage: On the whole, within a clan, there are loose, but distinct classes, with much social mobility. However, some clans are more prestigious than others, and then wield more power.
Values: Independence is valued.
Religion(s): Very Animist religion, though with a more structured religious society Emerging, with the Earth and the Wolf Spirit as the Greatest of the Pantheon.

Past: The Fomor have lived in this area from Time Immemorial.
Economic Base: Clans make do with the resources in their area, and trade it to other members of the Fomor Confederation. Clans on lake sides fish, while those in the woods hunt, and so on. Clans on the rivers, however, have recently begun exploiting the trade travelling downriver.
Nation Names: Devhin-Mor, Gramor, Treyto-Mor, Culmor
Person Names: Thomin, Laudin, Gravin, (Chief names, used for both Genders)
Thorol, Laudol, Gravol (Any not of the Lines of the Cheifs.)
Surnames tend to be based on the clans, which are named after animals. A particularly important person may receive an advective, by which their descendants may be known (Strongman, Wisewoman, etc.)

 

[SouthernKing]

Finished my past/names (post 37)

 

[Terrance888]

Developing my idea further, I'm thinking of a society with very week blood bonds with the structure of the villages forming the family, and only the mother posing as a leadership role to her children, with no major connection between the children without the matriarch's desire.

Social dislocation is caused and causes a really widespread introspective culture. Perfect for a merchant state. , I just want to see the starting locations before putting the finishing touches.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Formor
Starting Location: On a River on one of the Inland Seas (Or between the two seas)
Society: CLan based. There are ostensibly two different classes of leaders in Formor Society, and, depending on clan, the power balance is different. Regardless, in all clans, there is a Chief, who rules over the physical world, and a Council of Elders, who have absolute authority in all matters spiritual. The Influence these two bodies hold over individual clans depends alot on the clan and the charisma of the Various Members, and the ability of the two to work together. However, only the Chiefs are the ones to attend the clan meetings.
Lineage: On the whole, within a clan, there are loose, but distinct classes, with much social mobility. However, some clans are more prestigious than others, and then wield more power.
Values: Independence is valued.
Religion(s): Very Animist religion, though with a more structured religious society Emerging, with the Earth and the Wolf Spirit as the Greatest of the Pantheon.

Past: The Fomor have lived in this area from Time Immemorial.
Economic Base: Clans make do with the resources in their area, and trade it to other members of the Fomor Confederation. Clans on lake sides fish, while those in the woods hunt, and so on. Clans on the rivers, however, have recently begun exploiting the trade travelling downriver.
Nation Names: Devhin-Mor, Gramor, Treyto-Mor, Culmor
Person Names: Thomin, Laudin, Gravin, (Chief names, used for both Genders)
Thorol, Laudol, Gravol (Any not of the Lines of the Cheifs.)
Surnames tend to be based on the clans, which are named after animals. A particularly important person may receive an advective, by which their descendants may be known (Strongman, Wisewoman, etc.)

My eyes have detected a familiar word. It is true! Word "Wolf" has been mentioned. Unlocking secret level. '

Spoiler Godmod enabled :

Here, have a cookie.

Finished my past/names (post 37)

Developing my idea further, I'm thinking of a society with very week blood bonds with the structure of the villages forming the family, and only the mother posing as a leadership role to her children, with no major connection between the children without the matriarch's desire.

Social dislocation is caused and causes a really widespread introspective culture. Perfect for a merchant state. ,

So, a blood-bonded matriarchal families [ooc](What is with you guys and matriarchal leaders. IRL I don't find female leaders hot?).[/ooc]

What role would fathers/male have in your society and how would they function in the society? Also, if mother is role model for both of the sexes, how would male children grow up to know their position (and not start wearing dresses like his mom did) ?



----------------

I just want to see the starting locations before putting the finishing touches.

NB! This is planning for CULTURES not individual nations.

Also, I've included examples of modern countries sizes on this map. As you can see, you'll start out as pretty small blobs.

I'm making a 'landscape' map. That would show smaller rivers and areas which are more hilly or more dry. Altho, small hills and bodies of water will not be shown on this or nations map - you'll have separate landscape map. You can write me a chapter or wishlist of what type and how rugged terrain you want. Or you can let me choose it randomly. Sorry for being slow and sluggish with this map work

Rivers shown on this map are very wide, fast flowing and rather difficult to cross.

Also Actual map is 4x as large as this and may have (slightly) more land than currently is shown .



------------------
How's this for stats:

Stats
Nation - Player
Culture: Culture - %
Religion: Dominant religions in order of adherents (there are usually other, less popular religions)
Government: Type of government
Income: Income (treasury/debt)
Military: Forces (Upkeep: cost)
Description: Outline of the nation. Hosted in a wiki that's mostly moderated by players.

Nation - Player

Nation name - player name, should be obvious

Culture - %

Culture groups marked under a nation would be the list of major cultures that are present in given nation in sufficient numbers.

The precentage behind each culture would show cultures strength. What it means is, higher precentage = people of that culture read and talk according to given culture. Higher the precentage more likely they would follow traditions, beliefs and holidays of given culture and more highly they value themselves. They will also spread more thanks to trade routes or whatever other travelling routes.

Bolded culture is dominant culture - culture that is preferred by nation in question. Nation can prefer up to 2 cultures, no more.

Spoiler Example :

A nation with russian 100%, indian 50%, mongol 25% cultures, would have very strong russians, who would read in russian, speak russian, think in russian and behave like russians. They would also party like russians and live like russian traditionally lived. The local government (whatever the government style of the nation is) would also probably be made up of mostly/many russians. Russians would rarely convert to other culture and would actively spread via trade routes. Whilst mongols would be most likely to slowly disappear and be absorbed by other cultures (unless more mongols are imported via trade routes, slaves or other national policies). A mongol in given nation would speak other languages (probably russian) and would be less present in political landscape. They would also be forgiving if their cultural values are ignored, if horses are banned. Russians in same nation would cause massive riots if vodka would be banned.

Generally speaking, higher % means that culture spreads more towards neighbors and will expect nation to care more of their views and traditions. The lower the precentage, the higher chance that this culture group will be absorbed into larger groups and the weaker hold over local government and power the given culture has. A blunt example would be, if in nation, with 100% russian culture, vodka would be banned from the markets (or some other nation would discriminate russians), local russians would revolt to see vodka (or russian rights in other nation) to be restored. Whilst nation with 25% russian influence would be just slightly annoyed by the fact. Nationality can change through being under control of foreign culture, esp if foreign culture supports integration (methods in question are up to you to choose). It's generally easier to rule over one type of population, as if two cultures are both strongly present in nation, it might lead to cultural conflicts.

Cultures may mix and form new cultures, esp. when nation has two cultures, where neither is dominant (say roman 30%, greek 30%). Over the years, assuming neither culture becomes more powerful than other, a new culture, incorporating elements and traditions from both culture, would slowly rise. In 400-800 years, nation would be populated by 50% Greekromans, 10% romans, 10% greeks. Assuming there is no change of power of either cultures.

Dominant religions in order of adherents (there are usually other, less popular religions)
Government: Type of government

I don't think I need to explain these.

Income: Income (treasury/debt)

Income is what your nation earns per turn through taxations, tolls and whatever other sources of income. More is generally better. You can tax businesses, individuals, towns, groups, merchants, income and outgoing goods, sales, marketplaces, houseowners. Whatever else you can think of. Any investment that would increase taxes and amounts of resources or work that your population does would be good.

Spoiler Example :

invest into making salt mining cheaper (into laws, equipment, eduaction state co-financing etc.) to generate salt mines (salaries, taxes, more money to spend), salt source (resource) and salt sales (internal market, removing need to import salt), salt exports. And of course using salt in other products, for an example salting fish for selling. So, one investment into engouraging creation of salt mines could generate a lot of revenue and a lot taxes.

If nation does not spend money, it's put into treasury, If player goes inactive or fails to send orders, money is also put into treasury. Money in treasury does not increase nor is invested into anything, but it does not disappear either. It just stays as it is. There is no limit on how much money you can put into treasury.

A nation can spend more than it earns, meaning treasury can go into debt. A national debt would be "borrowed" money from infrastructure, taxes, payments and whatever else. Think of it as inflation. A small debt is manageable, it would make life a bit more difficult - increase expenses whilst lowering income of the family (meaning family can't spend as much as it is used to). A large debt over several turns would collapse the nation into famine, riots, permanently lowere income and create general chaos. Ask me if you want to know how much is too much. Debt that lasts over several turns does lower overall income (that is NOT returned when debt is payed - think of this as "inflation").

Military: Forces (Upkeep: cost)

In PROGRESS

Spoiler For N3S :

Income:

1,000 establishes a small colony, fort (add money for distance, difficulty)
1,000 - 5,000 for a small scale project (new harbor, temple complex, reconstructing walls)
5,000 – 15,000 for a large scale project (bettering major roads, irrigation system, wonder of the world of some kind or another)

Soldiers:
Levies: 10 for 1
Infantry: 5 for 1
Cavalry: 1 for 1

Ships: 1 for 50
Siege Train: “1” for 500

To build and maintain a military unit, due to the rather long turn lengths, is the same on the first turn as it is to maintain it for subsequent turns.

One will generally need to spend additional money to support troops outside of your own borders -- logistics spending. This represents upkeep on equipment over the course of a campaign, which tends to destroy it at a faster rate than sitting around does. You will also need to feed them to keep an army in being. For a given campaign, a good rule of thumb is that you'll need to spend roughly one extra "gold" for every ten soldiers you're bringing along. Venturing further from home raises this price. Ask me what an appropriate amount is if you're not sure.

Comments, inputs, ideas, spoilers, advice?

 

[Terrance888]

So, a blood-bonded matriarchal families [ooc](What is with you guys and matriarchal leaders. IRL I don't find female leaders hot?).[/ooc]

What role would fathers/male have in your society and how would they function in the society? Also, if mother is role model for both of the sexes, how would male children grow up to know their position (and not start wearing dresses like his mom did) ?

I am trying to severely deemphasize the power of the family. In a communal atmosphere, the father is generally unknown and thus of no real consequence. The only bonds, weak ones at that, are to the mother-people are constantly chopping at the bits to get out into the real world.

I'm thinking about the picture painted in the "Cartoon History of the Universe" just because it is a mixture of thoughtful and funny. The Guys hunt and fight and stuff, but they also do the agriculture and stuff like mining-hard labor. The females control the skilled production- smithing, crafting, pottery, ect.

For male children, I'm taking a page from the greek book: older males take younger males as "students" and give them "lessons" in "private" far away from other people, and teach them how to be a man and "take it". This is more a bond of brotherhood than father/son, especially as networks grow and wane sort of like fraternities.

Maybe there will be exclusively female towns with children, and wandering bands of males who hunt, farm, fight in the countryside and head to town to share their loot, get a night of fun, and maybe seduce "convince" several boys to join them.

EDIT: making some conjectures, but it seems possible that Formor and Kanor are related, with Kanor forming after a tribe of Formorians conquered Tanori. I'm thinking of making my people between the two areas on the lake.

Though people try to be self-sustainable,

Independence is valued.

Other things, like names, the strength of the chief and the formation of the religion in Kanor and the fact that the Caste system seemed to be described as unwieldy, established for the purpose of subjugating the Tanori.
Again, just conjecture.

 

[hbar]

(What is with you guys and matriarchal leaders. IRL I don't find female leaders hot?).

As far as my limited knowledge of history goes, most bronze-age societies were matriarchal, and it was the rise of Judaism that reversed the trend. Whether or not that is even close to correct, it seems (to me) to be the better way to run a society. We men aren't really all that good at long-term planning or resource management. Now sit tight while I go get me some booze and hookers!

 

[Terrance888]

Self-referential proof for the win!

I've decided to solidify the "Towns/Villages are for Women and babies, Real Men wander the countryside in packs/farmers" as a center to my society. Lol, what turned out to be a throwaway thought actually got stuck in there and made me go . I want to hear Northen Wolf's thoughs on this and the Kanor/Formor migration idea. (Thomas and More Epic Than You might also be interested, what do you guys think?)

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I really Like it. It's realistic: Migrations and population movements are integral to the development of societies.

 

[SouthernKing]

As far as my limited knowledge of history goes, most bronze-age societies were matriarchal, and it was the rise of Judaism that reversed the trend. Whether or not that is even close to correct, it seems (to me) to be the better way to run a society. We men aren't really all that good at long-term planning or resource management. Now sit tight while I go get me some booze and hookers!

IIRC you are correct; bronze-age and earlier cultures had gender equality or matriarchs. It was the rise of the major monotheistic faiths that reversed that. I know that Greece was most definitely not matriarchal. But hey, this is not Earth, so it could be different.
I'm not a definitive source; you'd have to ask Dachs or somebody like him for that.

 

[Terrance888]

In fact, if my society is the unconquered Tanori-like neighbors, those rivers would have pushed Kanorite migrations north of the Lake, while we stand high and dry surrounded by fast flowing, hard to cross water.

 

[filli_noctus]

I have slightly expanded the religion and language notes sections in the Ah'La write-up.

 

[SouthernKing]

Luckily for me, Terrance broke the double post so I don't have to edit the previous post.
I really like the culture system; it seems that it reflects a clash of cultures, or something like Alexander's spreading of Hellenism throughout the middle east, nicely.
From what I've lurked of N3S, the ruleset has worked well, so sounds good

 

[MoreEpicThanYou]

I like the idea, your society can be a band of escaped Tanori, who worship Attulud and Goranul as their primary gods. However, the Kanori should stay around the place where the rivers meet, while the Tanori head up the Dalid Kanorat (smaller river) to the lake to the north, and start anew over there. As for the history of the Kanor, Kanorid and his men were a group of Formor hunters who got tired of the women bossing them around (thus their male-dominated society), and headed west until they reached the Dalid Kanorat, which they followed downriver until the Dagal Dalil (place where the rivers meet) and conquered the less advanced Tanori. They then realized that there were no Kanori or Formor women nearby, so they took the same solution as our Romans did and raped some female Tanori.

As for the rivers, a bronze-age society could probably make a bridge over those rivers.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Doesn't even need to be a decided movement and conquest: Diffusion and Migration would have been more than enough (especially if there are already existing people to mingle with) to account for cultural differences over large distances.

 

[Terrance888]

I'm going to start writing on the Tenor, descendants of the Turoni, soon. They will be between the two rivers south of the lake between Kanor and Formor.

I'm thinking that the first state to form will be on that island in the lake, since the confined boundaries mean that all the females needed to do to confine the males is to confiscate all the boats.

That reminds me, I think the Females/Towns will worship mostly Attulud and the Males Goranul, but with obvious changes over time making a yin/yang love/hate relationship of guys and girls in Tenori society. This will be fun!

 

[MoreEpicThanYou]

The Tenor should stay east of the first of their two rivers, it would act as a barrier against Kanor attack.

Thomas, are you OK with the Formor worshipping Kanorin? You could keep your animistic beliefs to an extent, maybe the Formor don't worship Kanorin as much as the Kanori do. As for the name, maybe Kanorid the Conqueror would be named after him. Or, you could worship Kanorin under a different name...

 

[Terrance888]

Maybe the Kanor were thrown out for worshipping Kanorin?

Or maybe Kanorin is the Great Earth and Wolf Spirit in another name?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

yah: Long distances and Long Times do alot to change names and beliefs... And, for all we know, Kanorin was an important figure in the migration who, over the generations, got deified, overshadowing the other aspects of the faiths.

what really matters, here, is the time scale of this Prehistory.