Preaching Atheism

[Ziggy Stardust]

God can use people who make us doubt to actually strengthen our faith. And its not like God doesn't want us to think. So no, its not "Offensive."

Oh, I'm not claiming you're not thinking.

The thing is, the faith rests on a personally held conviction. One that might not have scientific objective proof backing it up.

Once you start doubting that, and have to start from scratch on what basis do you gain back that personally held conviction?

(Not sure if you catch my drift. Not sure if I catch my drift. Which is good in light of the subject)

We certainly wish you'd join us though

I tried. But I was told I was doing it wrong.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Oh, I'm not claiming you're not thinking.

The thing is, the faith rests on a personally held conviction. One that might not have scientific objective proof backing it up.

Once you start doubting that, and have to start from scratch on what basis do you gain back that personally held conviction?

(Not sure if you catch my drift. Not sure if I catch my drift. Which is good in light of the subject)

Faith is not intristically scientifically provable, however there is evidence for certain events of the Bible, particularly Jesus' Resurrection (500 people claimed they saw it, and most of those people died for that belief. While its very possible for a few people to go insane, or for any number of people to lie if they saw something to gain, 500 people going insane is ridiculous and 500 people outright lying and then being martyred for that lie implies that the Resurrection is actually true.)

Now, you could challenge that, and if you did, or pointed out an inconsistency in the Bible, or whatever, I'd have to research it, and even if you didn't like my answer, MY understanding of the issue would actually be deepened. So no, its not offensive for you to challenge me on my belief. I will admit, however, that I'm far from the best Christian apologist in the world, so there are times I have to tell someone "I don't know, you're obviously smarter than me, but that doesn't mean you're right."

I tried. But I was told I was doing it wrong.

Why? (Darwin as an avatar might be a good start)

 

[Angst]

You can be a Christian and believe in evolution at the same time. It's just in America that the church is behind...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I prioritized being nice over belief in God. Unacceptable.

And what's wrong with Darwin?

 

[warpus]

Faith is not intristically scientifically provable

It could be.

If Yahweh, as described in the Bible, showed up, that'd be proof enough for me that the Christian God exists.

There's nothing inherently unprovable about religious "God exists" claims - there is a big difference between a lack of evidence and the impossibility of evidence

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I prioritized being nice over belief in God. Unacceptable.

No, you prioritized being nice (in your own way) over belief in God (in someone elses way).
Normaly there can never be a conflict between faith and kindness and good will.
Everyone is perfectly right to have faith and approach others in his own way. Thats how divinity expresses through each individual - in special and specific way.

 

[beingofone]

All the claims that if God would just show like he did in the Bible - is not understanding or reading the Bible.

News flash - God did not 'show up' in the Bible.

 

[timtofly]

All the claims that if God would just show like he did in the Bible - is not understanding or reading the Bible.

News flash - God did not 'show up' in the Bible.

Now we're preaching.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No, you prioritized being nice (in your own way) over belief in God (in someone elses way).

Well, there's the kicker you see. If I were to believe in the Christian God it would indeed take precedence over being nice for me as well. Not because of fluffy reasoning as: you need to love God first before etc etc. But because I would be too terrified for my eternal soul burnin' up in hell to think about anything else but pleasing God.

I take my hat off to Christians who really do believe in this God for the nonchalant way they deal with the fate of their souls.

All the claims that if God would just show like he did in the Bible - is not understanding or reading the Bible.

News flash - God did not 'show up' in the Bible.

It was a lot more interactive back then.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Well, there's the kicker you see. If I were to believe in the Christian God it would indeed take precedence over being nice for me as well. Not because of fluffy reasoning as: you need to love God first before etc etc. But because I would be too terrified for my eternal soul burnin' up in hell to think about anything else but pleasing God.

I take my hat off to Christians who really do believe in this God for the nonchalant way they deal with the fate of their souls.
It was a lot more interactive back then.

No doubt, Christians have problems by staying quite a bit too much in the past while the general consciousess of humanity has moved on. I am hoping that few realy mature and knowledgeable souls can reform it...

 

[timtofly]

Well, there's the kicker you see. If I were to believe in the Christian God it would indeed take precedence over being nice for me as well. Not because of fluffy reasoning as: you need to love God first before etc etc. But because I would be too terrified for my eternal soul burnin' up in hell to think about anything else but pleasing God.

I take my hat off to Christians who really do believe in this God for the nonchalant way they deal with the fate of their souls.
It was a lot more interactive back then.

I thank you.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

my flesh is weak also.

 

[warpus]

All the claims that if God would just show like he did in the Bible - is not understanding or reading the Bible.

News flash - God did not 'show up' in the Bible.

I don't think you really read what I wrote, because you did not understand my point.

 

[Borachio]

Magnificent thread, Ziggy.

 

[Quackers]

The OP is a perfect example of how some Athiests alienate the religious and actually sabotage their own goals.

 

[ShahJahanII]

The OP is a perfect example of how some Athiests alienate the religious and actually sabotage their own goals.

Please elaborate on this.
Atheists don't have any group goals, as we aren't a "group" to begin with. We just happen to be differing from the norm (in the real world, that is. we are the norm on this forum).

 

[ShahJahanII]

Normaly there can never be a conflict between faith and kindness and good will.

I beg to differ.
In fact (when it comes to most religions) there is always a conflict between faith and kindness and good will.
Thankfully, very few people interpret their religions in a very literal way.
I'm almost finished with "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. He does a great job of showing the great incompatibility between religion and morality.

 

[ShahJahanII]

You can be a Christian and believe in evolution at the same time. It's just in America that the church is behind...

Depends on what you call Christian. I agree with that 2nd sentence.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The OP is a perfect example of how some Athiests alienate the religious and actually sabotage their own goals.

What if my goal is to alienate the religious?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

^^Yeah. I'm not out to convert anyone. The goal is to make religion look so ridiculous that no-one even thinks of allowing it to affect public policy.

 

[peter grimes]

All the claims that if God would just show like he did in the Bible - is not understanding or reading the Bible.

News flash - God did not 'show up' in the Bible.

I was raised Protestant in the US. Every Sunday we were taught stories about God 'showing up' and saying things to people. This was not some sophisticated theological argument - it was nuts & bolts stuff like 'And an angel appeared unto them blah blah blah' or 'And the Lord said to them blah blah blah'.

It was presented in the same way I'd describe my boss walking into the shop and telling me what our next project is going to be.

That's the god we were taught about. If that sort of thing happened today I'd have a hard time believing in my own sanity, but if that were confirmed, then I'd be forced to revise my position and say that God is real.

It's preposterous to think that he only did that sort of thing to a particularly small tribe of shepherds in an otherwise humdrum spot on the globe.