Preaching Atheism
- Thread starter Ziggy Stardust
- Start date
Isn't that what I said?
Well, you said that it was a fact that the Universe was once compressed into a 'point'. I don't think that's verified. I don't think we have good evidence beyond the Universe being about basketball-sized: anything smaller than that has multiple competing theories for which we don't have enough evidence.
I think
BirdJag: the first stars formed (iirc) within the first few hundred million years.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
It wasn't apathy about faith that destroyed my non-existent desire to believe. It was the deliberate lack of my parents foisting their own religious beliefs, or lack thereof, on my brother and myself. They left it up to us to decide for ourselves. He does believe in a supreme being. I do not.
Of course, this attitude incensed some of my grandparents and other relatives. They understood all too well the need to imbue that desire to believe at a very early age, so they finally convinced my mother to send us to Sunday School before it was too late. This also likely contributed to my younger brother taking the opposite course, since he started attending 3 years earlier than I did.
Yared
That Guy
Sea food.
Welcome back, by the way.
Where did God come from?
Has he always existed? If so, why can't that be the same for the stuff that existed before the Big Bang?1) Science only sets itself out to explain observable, objective things. If the higher meanings of life aren't observable, it's not Science-business.
2) Just because Science can't explain something now, it doesn't mean:
a) that Science will never be able to explain something;
b) that it's proof that the opposite (the
3) Whether or not you should accept things that aren't Scientifically provable as true, however, is something else...
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My contribution? Well, most if not all the religious discussions I have in RL start with "why are you an Atheist??". I simply say "Because I don't have a reason to not be it."
And then I ask, "why shouldn't I be?", and then it goes on. I use mostly questions, acting like I've never heard of their religion before.
In my experiences, all the religions I've read about work around the assumption that their God(s), Entity/Entities, paranormal world or phenomenon (e.g. Samsara), etc; exist and then work from there.
I, therefore, like to question them about how they can be so sure that something like the Christian God exists in the first place, and why all the things that have convinced them of the veracity of their religion (e.g. my mom was dying so we prayed and she got better, obviously that was the work of God) has to have been done by just their fav God.
I mean, why couldn't it have been the divine intervention of one of the Greek Gods or one of the Hindu Gods or Ziggy's God?
In fact, that question goes out to all of the religious people here:
Pick an event in your life that you're convinced was the work of your divine entity. Now tell me exactly how we can be sure that it was your God and not just some other God whose work got miss-credited?
Beloved Warrior
Chieftain
I doubt the possibility that the universe came into existence through a naturalistic, unintelligent process. I doubt that the fine-tuning of the universe for life occurred through a naturalistic, unintelligent process. I doubt that life came into existence through natural abiogenesis. I doubt that the varieties of living things came into existence solely through an unintelligent process. I doubt that science would be possible if the universe and human beings were not a product of intelligent design. I doubt that the human mind would be possible in a solely naturalistic reality. I doubt that there is a better explanation for the existence of the universe, the fine-tuning of the universe for life, the existence of life, the existence of a wide variety of life, the possibility of science, and the existence of the human mind than God. I doubt that my direct comprehension of the existence objective moral values is unreliable. I doubt that objective moral values exist without God. I doubt that there is a better explanation for the facts of the empty tomb of Jesus and his post-mortem appearances than that God raised Jesus from the dead. I doubt that my personal experience of God's presence in my life is unreliable. I doubt that the Christian God doesn't exist. I doubt that any other God exists. I doubt that the statement "No god or any godlike being exists" is true. I doubt that these doubts are misguided. All of my beliefs are ironically based upon doubt.
PeteAtoms
FormulaRandom
"I doubt" is not a synonym for "I don't know how and can't be bothered to look it up..."
I started doubting the supernatural and superstitions when I realized there was no reason to believe in them, and the only reason I did was because other people of authority told me that it was the truth. Most will agree doubt and faith go hand in hand. I'm apathetic now though. Doubt leads to the expansion of knowledge, or the pursuit thereof, so I prefer doubt to faith.
I started doubting the supernatural and superstitions when I realized there was no reason to believe in them, and the only reason I did was because other people of authority told me that it was the truth. Most will agree doubt and faith go hand in hand. I'm apathetic now though. Doubt leads to the expansion of knowledge, or the pursuit thereof, so I prefer doubt to faith.
To be absolutely frank, IMHO, the religious value "faith" so much as an overcompensation, an answer to the fact that fact checking always makes them fall flat. But it's a fake love, and they would much rather have proof that God exists. Or you honestly imagine that if tomorrow a major breakthrough in scientific knowledge comes to disproof all that we know, and proves, both mechanically and mathematically, that God most certainly exists, the believers will simply respond to it by saying: "irrelevant; faith is what matters".
They won't. These proofs will be repeated in all ceremonies and repeated loudly in every corner for the rest of eternity. And that's why they praise miracles, relics and testimonials of cures and "personal experiences" so much; because ad hoc and unconvincing as they are, they are still "proof" in their eyes.
Regards
.
Snorrius
Librivorator
Which grounds these doubts are based on?
This video has some many flaws. For example the argument the ToE has nothing to do with the origins of life is not really true. ToE is all about the origins of today's life which is the only physical life known to man. True the OOL theory itself deals with some unknown unseen "Frankencell" and some kind of a imaginary "RNA" world. That's because we now know that all life today is very complex, either by evolving from this FrankenCell or created.
All life known today has a chain of many complicated molecular machines. So with today knowledge Atheism is a belief. They have to believe in some other kind of life never seen before that doesn't require these complicated machines we find in every living cell today.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
It has nothing to do with whether you can put an equation to it or not. Gravity comes with lots of equations.
There are only a handful of scientific laws (eg laws of motion, law of conservation, etc). They are different from theories in that they are generally quite simple, and do not describe the causes of a phenomena, they only describe the behaviour of a phenomena. Because they are very simple, they are also unchanging, unlike theories that are often modified in small ways continually.
GhostWriter16
Deity
THis thread reminds me of a joke from Darren Streblow, Christian Comedian:
It went something like (Impersonation of an atheist)
Like, why do the atheists need their own TV station. Like:
"We don't believe in a god who loves us and takes care of us and meets our needs! So, send us money so that we can.......................................Spread the good news. Now everyone, lets sing an Atheist hymn "Who gives us reason to live? No one, no one."
Lol to the idea of Atheist Preachers.
It went something like (Impersonation of an atheist)
Like, why do the atheists need their own TV station. Like:
"We don't believe in a god who loves us and takes care of us and meets our needs! So, send us money so that we can.......................................Spread the good news. Now everyone, lets sing an Atheist hymn "Who gives us reason to live? No one, no one."
Lol to the idea of Atheist Preachers.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
Incorrect. What you're talking about is abiogenesis.
The theory of evolution was first proposed as a theory to explain why there were different species and why different areas had different species, not to explain why there was life.
RNA life is not something that's "never seen before", it's just never been seen in cellular form. RNA-based viruses and bacteriophages are all around us. The influenza virus is an RNA virus.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
So this is why you need Christian TV stations? To give "comedians" like this airtime because they will likely never appear on any other type of TV?
Link to video.
Incorrect since even evolutionist makes it clear all life known today has evolved. Evolutionist wants to distance themselves for Aboigenesis because of it's short comings and the fact we now have an idea of just how complex today's life is. If abiogenesis was found true no doubt evolutionist would count this as strong evidence for ToE.
All of today's RNA comes from today's life. RNA world is an imaginary world where you got a butch RNA without any living cells on Earth.
Why are there religious stations? Why the need to raise money? Shouldn't prayer take care of things rather than sending a check to some salesman?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Well, my post was sort of a joke anyhow.
He makes a valid point about the pointlessness of it. Does that change their right to have it? NO. But its still pointless.
frekk
Scourge of St. Lawrence
This is circular logic. You can't prove that evolution = abiogenesis by using an argument that assumes that as a premise.
Er, no. That doesn't even make any sense. How would abiogenesis prove speciation? It could not possibly do so. They are completely different concepts.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
What is the point of religious proseletyzing, and most of all, pandering for financial donations on TV?
GhostWriter16
Deity
Well, if you are like me and believe Non-Christians will be damned for eternity, yes its important.
There's no atheist doctrine that says believers in god are going to hell.
In fact, the "proer" Atheist doctrine (Not including Anti-theists, who I really think just don't get it) is "It's possible there's a god somewhere. I don't believe in one, but hey, if you want to, and it makes you happy, fine with me."
