preNES: Champion of Dawn

[Angst]

So, this time we need a development thread I have planned this for some time, and it will be easily moddable... Well, to the actual point of this thread:

(pre)NES – Champion of Dawn​

The basics of this future NES are quite unorthodox. Importantly, you will, when reading further, completely clear your head of memories about previous NESes, understanding what this actually is.

The purpose of this NES is to create a single character who beats everybody else. It will be much like regular RPGs: You gain levels, learn skills, raise stats, cast spells... However, there is a difference between this NES and other RPG NESes:

Basics

- This is PvP RPG only as of now. That means no dungeons, no ‘instances’ – actually the RPG fighting is only being done in the Tournament Arena.
- Players design their characters to the smallest detail. You begin with a predetermined life, mana, attack strength etc, but with no spells, no skills, nothing else. These skills are available for purchase.
- To buy skills or increase stats, you spend XP, which is earned from killing off enemy players. You start with a small deal of XP to customize your character a bit.
- Tournaments will be held from time to time, allowing players to battle each other. Using elimination, at some point a sole player will be the winner, awarding the honour of having the title ‘Champion of Dawn’.
- I will possibly create two threads: one for tales of the world, stories, all that information, while the other one is for the cold numbers, character lists, and of course the progress in the arenas.
- ‘Expansions’ and ‘patches’ will come, including new combat systems, layouts, skills, etc etc.

Rules

- You work and fight with HP; which is the amount of damage you can take before death, MP; which is your capacity for spellcasting, Strength; which is the damage you deal, Defense; which is the damage you reduce from physical attacks, Speed; which is the number of squares you can move per turn, Wisdom; which is the amount of MP you regenerate per turn, and Regeneration; which is the life you recover per turn. You begin with zero Defense and Regeneration. Names will probably be redetermined later.

- The arena in which you fight is divided in squares.

- Turns are simultaneous. You can therefore both attack an enemy in the same turn as you are moving, but then you will be at the square where the attacked enemy was at the time you attacked. It means that when attacking, you simply move to the place where your enemy stands, and you deal damage even though he moved that turn. This is surprisingly to avoid confusion. I decided to do turns simultanously to speed the game up

- The abilities you have are consisting of: Spells (Fireball thingies, Frost Nova), skills (physical attacks, like when you poke an enemy just a little harder with your spear it’s called Execute), stances (Fx you could use a Ninja stance and attack twice or a Guard stance and recieve more Defense), enchantments (Positive lasting effects), curses (Negative lasting effects) and passive skills (Auras and abilities that automatically are used every turn).

- Turns will happen about once a day. Yup, I’m serious.

- We will be following more than one fight during each update to avoid people getting bored.

- Players will be revived by the arena priests when dead, but then they will have to wait for another tournament!

- Whenever a Tournament has ended, it begins all over again when the players are ready! The players may keep their previous characters as well.

To Be Discussed Before Launch

- Should players be able to move diagonally, and will the map layout be using diagonal squares?

- As of now, I haven’t included weapons, because it would be hell for me to create as a dimension. I haven’t even finished the spell list yet. This has basically no meaning, except that You Are As Of Now Unable To Be A Ranged Hero Due To No Bows! Magic of course enables you to attack from a distance. I am writing this because it can probably be a downside to some players, and I would like your feedback as well as a solution to this problem. Probably you could do something like “I wear Bow and get -50% Strength, but can’t move when attacking” thingy. I don’t know, really.

- Summoning/transforming spells are planned to be included in the future, but can be discussed as well. Here we are also talking about racial benefits - right now you can practically say you are a peasant as well as a pit lord, you will still have the same stats. Racial benefits are planned to be included in the future as well.

- Everything Else, including input about my predetermined rules. Do you want a PvE setting? Don’t you want to join this NES? Every input, even if it means that you write “This NES sucks and I don’t want to join” is fine. I like it more than this preNES is being completely ignored. Input, input, input, anytime!

Post, post, post!

...

Oh, and Dawn is the name of the OTL small but famous city in which the tournament is held.

All notes below this point are added after discussion has begun.

Should the movement system be using Hexes, or Squares?
- If Squares, should players be able to move diagonally?

Should a PvE setting be available to participate in?
- If yes, what should the outcome be? XP?
- Should a world outside the arena exist at all? (I prefer that the game is staying inside Dawn though)

Should underhand tactics be available, such as poisoning the enemy before combat?

Should a weapons system be implemented?
- Should players be able to request custom weapons and be able to buy them if the Mod determines the XP cost is affordable?

Would players want to play as parties instead of single characters?

Should players not follow a 'level' system and instead recieve a set amount of XP before the tournament to design their characters with?

My Own Thoughts
- Should cooperative PvE be available in the Arena, such as Players vs Bots?
- Other small side battles will be available when a tournament is abroad. This is to entertain those who perhaps aren't strong enough to beat the current champion. Settings could be Team vs. Team, Battle Royale and, heck, even Capture the Flag.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

I'll join this.

Note: In my view, players should not be able to move diagonally, as it will make movement calculations even harder.

 

[Terrance888]

I believe it should use Hexs. :0

Very interesting.

 

[Ninja Dude]

I might join this. I'll have to study the rules more, but i think I'll be able to play.

Edit: Like Charles said, hexes could be used too. although I don't really care if it's squares or hexes.

 

[bestshot9]

I like it, why not let players just decide what weapons they want and the bonuses they will give, such as +1 strength, etc. but then you give us the price it will cost to buy them?

 

[Angst]

It is nice to see replies already.

I'll join this.

Note: In my view, players should not be able to move diagonally, as it will make movement calculations even harder.

It sounds fine to me, actually. If this is accepted between players, we will forget about having diagonal squares as a grid.

Oh, but you will be able to choose to go up-left-up-left for 4 speed in one turn though. Otherwise it will be too slow-paced, at least in my opinion.

I believe it should use Hexs. :0

Very interesting.

Just added that, completely forgot to add that in the list. I think I named it Curses though.

 

[Vertinari118]

Allow diagonal movement definatly. PvE would be nice as well if just to allow the players to get even more XP and to avoid the game ending really quickly if only a few people join. PvE should be done in the arena as well or maybe in the town around the arena. Players should also be allowed to wander around the town and maybe attack players outside the arena but using the same combat model. Racial boni are always good but be careful to keep them fairly balanced. As for weapons if you want I can give you the D&D info on weapons and we can use that or I can help you develop your own model, whichever you prefer. Another point to debate should players be allowed to use underhand tactics such as poisining the enemy and should battles always be to the death or more gladitorial? All of these points can be argued over and won't stop me playing if they are not used.

PS Great idea Lord_Joakim. Steal whatever you want from my own ex-Nes.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

Oh, but you will be able to choose to go up-left-up-left for 4 speed in one turn though. Otherwise it will be too slow-paced, at least in my opinion.

Of course- I wasn't rejecting that option.

PvE would be nice as well if just to allow the players to get even more XP and to avoid the game ending really quickly if only a few people join.

Maybe only as a last resort, though. Alternatively, players could make new characters and get back in the game.

 

[Vertinari118]

Then there would be no winner.

 

[Angst]

I might join this. I'll have to study the rules more, but i think I'll be able to play.

Edit: Like Charles said, hexes could be used too. although I don't really care if it's squares or hexes.

I thought you guys meant hexes as a magic. If the community decides it, I will change Squares to Hexes instead. The discussion will be added to the OP.

I like it, why not let players just decide what weapons they want and the bonuses they will give, such as +1 strength, etc. but then you give us the price it will cost to buy them?

The weapons are not included currently for the sole reason that it will be hell for me to balance out with all of the spells right now, and it will take a while before a weapons list is completed. However, I am open for any input, and I will do an armory system if appreciated by the community. It would be included in a future game expansion nonetheless.

The system you proposed is somewhat good, but if included, it will only be a demo version, because, sadly, it would suck to be a player and buy an expensive weapon for, say, 100 XP and then it's nerfed to be more or less expensive, or more or less good as a weapon. If a weapons system should be increased, I would like to use the first system instead, but of course, the players in this NES overrule all rules if they want. What do you guys think?

 

[bestshot9]

The weapons are not included currently for the sole reason that it will be hell for me to balance out with all of the spells right now, and it will take a while before a weapons list is completed. However, I am open for any input, and I will do an armory system if appreciated by the community. It would be included in a future game expansion nonetheless.

The system you proposed is somewhat good, but if included, it will only be a demo version, because, sadly, it would suck to be a player and buy an expensive weapon for, say, 100 XP and then it's nerfed to be more or less expensive, or more or less good as a weapon. If a weapons system should be increased, I would like to use the first system instead, but of course, the players in this NES overrule all rules if they want. What do you guys think?

I just meant let us make our own weapons, to save you work, but if you'd rather make them then its all good, you'd probably be better at balancing them anyways.

 

[Angst]

Maybe only as a last resort, though. Alternatively, players could make new characters and get back in the game.

Allow diagonal movement definatly. PvE would be nice as well if just to allow the players to get even more XP and to avoid the game ending really quickly if only a few people join. PvE should be done in the arena as well or maybe in the town around the arena. Players should also be allowed to wander around the town and maybe attack players outside the arena but using the same combat model. Racial boni are always good but be careful to keep them fairly balanced. As for weapons if you want I can give you the D&D info on weapons and we can use that or I can help you develop your own model, whichever you prefer. Another point to debate should players be allowed to use underhand tactics such as poisining the enemy and should battles always be to the death or more gladitorial? All of these points can be argued over and won't stop me playing if they are not used.

PS Great idea Lord_Joakim. Steal whatever you want from my own ex-Nes.

Underhand tactics debate has been added to the OP, and the rest as well. I forgot to add something important to the OP: When deceased, you will be revived by the arena priests after combat, but you will be out of the tournament. The Tournament will be restarted after a winner has been chosen, with the same characters available..!

Regarding the weapons, I would appreciate if you sent me a list of general weapons, perhaps armour as well, and then I'll determine their effects. It appears that players want weapons to be implemented already. Poor me.

-----

Other notes added to the OP of my own ideas:

- Should cooperative PvE be available in the Arena, such as Players vs Bots?
- Other small side battles will be available when a tournament is abroad. This is to entertain those who perhaps aren't strong enough to beat the current champion. Settings could be Team vs. Team, Battle Royale and, heck, even Capture the Flag. Is this appreciated between the players?

 

[Vertinari118]

Lord_Joakim give me an idea of the wealth of the average gladiator and the types of weapons used and you will have your list. Should I post it here or PM it? If other people could help that would be good. Next idea should things like potions, wands and other items or artifacts be usable in the arena or not? I like the idea of team battles. As for the squares or hexs debate I see no difference myself but I thing squares look a bit better. How fantasy is this world Lord_Joakim and what is the general mood or theme? If you tell me that I will start looking for ideas for races as well if you want and it would help.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I'm very interested, but I predict that if you go with a turn-by-turn battle system, this NES will be dull and will die in obscurity. How committed are you to the current format of this game?

 

[Terrance888]

I know of something in the Forum games *lifts arms in anticipation of rotten tomatos* Dissensions or Snakes and Foxes or something in which a tournament is one post. Maybe have players submitt a strategy such as (Grapple!/stay away) and after 10 seconds or them get pushed away from each other by an attack when they can send new orders with approximated new stats.

 

[Ninja Dude]

I like the idea of having other things besides one vs. one. Team battles and battle royales sound very fun.

Edit: you could also come up with a reasonable expanation for not having weapons. You could make it illegal to use weapons or outside help when in a match. Kind of like the Dragon Ball tournaments.

 

[bestshot9]

On hexes: I think that it will make movement too confusing for some (like me) so squares are generally better, that way I can say left, right, up or down and keep it simple.

 

[Angst]

I just meant let us make our own weapons, to save you work, but if you'd rather make them then its all good, you'd probably be better at balancing them anyways.

Actually we can add it as a feature as well, or instead of a regular weapons system. That's up for the players to decide.

Lord_Joakim give me an idea of the wealth of the average gladiator and the types of weapons used and you will have your list. Should I post it here or PM it? If other people could help that would be good. Next idea should things like potions, wands and other items or artifacts be usable in the arena or not? I like the idea of team battles. As for the squares or hexs debate I see no difference myself but I thing squares look a bit better. How fantasy is this world Lord_Joakim and what is the general mood or theme? If you tell me that I will start looking for ideas for races as well if you want and it would help.

Just post it here, it would be great. Potions - I'm not so fond of potions, since this game is based upon an XP economy, not actually wealth. So if you bough a potion for XP, you would have spent the XP for a one-time boost during one time in one battle. However, I can do a system where I, in some of the non-tournament battles, give all players a specific potion or two to use during the game. This could also be done with Artifacts fx.

Everyone: I have decided not to include racial boni yet, because its simply to overwhelming, and I think that you all prefer a weapons system instead at this point. However, it would still be great for me to have a list of races posted for reference and potentially to work over.

Oh, and Vertinari118, I have no idea about the mood of the world. There isn't really a storyline save the tournaments and battles. That was also why I considered making two threads whenever this NES was finished. Then, one would be for the town life of Dawn (Where the players could write stories as well), and one for the tough combat of the arena.

I'm very interested, but I predict that if you go with a turn-by-turn battle system, this NES will be dull and will die in obscurity. How committed are you to the current format of this game?

Nice to hear that you are interested, but I am troubled that you think a turn-by-turn system is problematic for the game pace. Well, since this NES is quite stat-based (Or will be), I considered that total control of the game characters by the players was the best solution to make sure it is as fair as possible. I chose doing one update per day + simultaneous turns to speed things up.

However my commitment to the current system is so strong that I prefer it, but so weak that if overruled by the players, I will change it. Do you have an alternative?

I know of something in the Forum games *lifts arms in anticipation of rotten tomatos* Dissensions or Snakes and Foxes or something in which a tournament is one post. Maybe have players submitt a strategy such as (Grapple!/stay away) and after 10 seconds or them get pushed away from each other by an attack when they can send new orders with approximated new stats.

This is an all right idea and depends on what players think, however since this NES consists a lot of cold, hard numbers, I think that this would be unfair to some players if they think their directions were misunderstood, overdriven, overruled etc.

I like the idea of having other things besides one vs. one. Team battles and battle royales sound very fun.

Edit: you could also come up with a reasonable expanation for not having weapons. You could make it illegal to use weapons or outside help when in a match. Kind of like the Dragon Ball tournaments.

Thanks On the weapons thingie - I, myself, imagine that you have weapons. What I thought of was simply that they were not represented as a part of the game. Say, a Dark Elf Assassin could say "I wear daggers and because of that I don't do much damage but move fast". Then he doesn't increase Strength but increases Speed instead when gaining XP. On the other hand, he could be a Human Crusader: "I am heavily armoured and good in hand-to-hand combat, but I am quite slow". Then the player would increase Strength and Defense, but not Speed.

The problem with this system is, however, lack of flexibility, but that would be the easiest to integrate all the same.

Bottom line is, I think weapons are already in the game, but on the same time, they're not. Due to the numerous replies on the subject though, I think that I will include a weapons system.

----------------

QUESTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO CONSIDER AT THIS POINT:

Do people generally want an Armory?

Do people generally prefer Squares above Hexes?

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Nice to hear that you are interested, but I am troubled that you think a turn-by-turn system is problematic for the game pace. Well, since this NES is quite stat-based (Or will be), I considered that total control of the game characters by the players was the best solution to make sure it is as fair as possible. I chose doing one update per day + simultaneous turns to speed things up.

However my commitment to the current system is so strong that I prefer it, but so weak that if overruled by the players, I will change it. Do you have an alternative?

Any alternatives I could come up with would be require the focus of the game to be different. It seems like the concept itself is unworkable, to me. The game seems overly simple in that there are only a few actions available to each player, but at the same time it requires a lot of work from the mod. I expect that writing the updates will be a chore for the mod, and that the players will gradually lose interest due to the limited choices offerred to them.

I guess the most feasible option, in my opinion, that stays mostly true to the original concept would be a game that pits one small squad for each player against each other. In deterministic one-on-one fights, it's too easy to just chart out the best possible moves for each player and figure out who wins in advance. Maybe a squad would have one "main" character with complex stats, and a bunch of weaker, generic, pre-made units that would just be there to provide strategic depth.

Anyway, that's just my take on the issue. I can't have much of a preference for the other questions you've asked without clarifying the more fundamental points first.

 

[Angst]

Any alternatives I could come up with would be require the focus of the game to be different. It seems like the concept itself is unworkable, to me. The game seems overly simple in that there are only a few actions available to each player, but at the same time it requires a lot of work from the mod. I expect that writing the updates will be a chore for the mod, and that the players will gradually lose interest due to the limited choices offerred to them.

I guess the most feasible option, in my opinion, that stays mostly true to the original concept would be a game that pits one small squad for each player against each other. In deterministic one-on-one fights, it's too easy to just chart out the best possible moves for each player and figure out who wins in advance. Maybe a squad would have one "main" character with complex stats, and a bunch of weaker, generic, pre-made units that would just be there to provide strategic depth.

Anyway, that's just my take on the issue. I can't have much of a preference for the other questions you've asked without clarifying the more fundamental points first.

That is actually a quite interesting view on the subject. A party-based arena instead of a solo-based arena would be much more fun to players to do.

Would players be more willing to play with parties instead of single characters?

... Oh, and Chandrasekhar, don't worry, I will not let this be an overload of work for me. It simply wont. It will be run by players quite a lot.