Preview: Star Trek Mod 2.0

[deanej]

Starting civ placement is going to be interesting. The map won't be 100% canon with regard to distance (it would be WAY TOO BIG if it was), so regions that were never featured will be compressed (meaning anything that isn't the Alpha Quadrant and parts of the Delta Quadrant, particularly the region between the Gamma and Delta Quadrants). I want to make the distances still large enough to make the wormholes useful.

Unfortunately large maps get very slow very fast. I plan for a slightly larger than huge map based on the spiral galaxy map script (if I can figure out how to get denser solar systems I'll do that too).

 

[apenpaap]

To get denser solar systems, you can simply select that option while starting a game (though that often leads to the outer planets of two systems intersecting each others orbits).
Here's a site that could be useful to you when making this scenario: http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/cartography.htm

I'll also make a scenario myself, which will be based on the 22nd century scenario, and will be about the mirror universe invading the normal universe.

 

[deanej]

I don't think the spiral galaxy script has that option.

 

[Jaydn]

How many poly's is too many for a unit model? I only ask because I've just finished First Federation and Fesarius is clocking in at 1200 spheres with only 10 poly's a sphere... down from 32 when I started making it. The whole NIF is only 2.3mb but that amount of models is scaring me.

I was having an aweful time with NIFviewer and shader libraries but I think I've worked out my problems, I'll try and upload a screenshot this evening.

 

[deanej]

I don't know. How does it perform compared to the other units?

 

[phungus420]

Well, in the Unit Creation's forum, the modelers usually say it's best to keep units under 2000 polys. At least that's the number I've seen thrown around.

 

[Jaydn]

Well there's no way I can make Fesarius with only 2000 polys. I ran the game with 4 versions of the unit last night and never had any problems. It may be due to the fact that all the spheres are are composed of 2 sizes, many copies of each.

Regardless, everything ran smoothly, here is a screenshot of First Federation units... warning, its 1920x1200 resolution.

 

[vedli]

Urgh, honestly man I don't want to be negative about your work since you have created some beautiful models but those First Federation ships just look kind of ugly and dull. It's not your fault or anything you've got little to go on and all. I mean the Fesarius itself doesn't look too bad. The other ships seem a bit naked maybe more spheres? Whatever you decide I think poetic license is the key to making them look better. The probe looks fine but it's kind of an exhibit A as to why it might not be the best idea to included races that appeared in one episode of TOS and where never heard from again. Just uninteresting ships due to the limited budget and Special effects available at the time (heck, even the remastered version of the probe isn't all that interesting to look at).

 

[Jaydn]

I'm not insulted, I didn't really have much in the way of source material to go on. If deanej doesn't want to use them he doesn't have to, no big deal to me. The only ships actually seen in the one episode were Fesarius, the scout, and the probe, the others I just made up on the spot to fill holes.

 

[deanej]

Well, one thing I can say is that I do experience slowdowns with the Fesarius - is it possible to make the spheres in a texture?

 

[Jaydn]

I don't know, let me try and I'll let you know.

 

[apenpaap]

May 21st is my birthday, and version 2.0 of this mod is on my wishlist... Any chance you'll have it finished by then?

 

[deanej]

I've been very busy recently so I haven't been able to work on it. I don't know what next week will be like; could have a lot of time, could have none. I may be able to get one scenario done by then if everything works out perfectly.

 

[vreetzak44]

That's a shame. :-(
BTW, do you have the main mod nearly finished? Because if you have, you could focus on the main mod, so you can release it soon, adding the scenarios later.

 

[deanej]

I have a couple things left to do with the main mod, one of which will make scenarios easier if I can do it. I base the scenarios off the main mod anyways (exception: the one I'm currently working on is based off of unmodded BtS) so I have to do it in that order. Towards the end of 1.0 I was able to do a complete scenario in a weekend but I had more time and had a process developed. Once I have time it shouldn't be too long.

 

[nutz4dos]

I could remove the Borg UU and instead give them the subspace corriders tech at start like the Vaadwaur (that actually makes more sense than having one mega unit late game, especially since I'm tweaking the abilities of each unit class).

I like that idea a lot. The Borg Cube is a little overpowered as is (yes, I do remember every Borg episode, but there is a game to recall. Under the current rules, why ever upgrade Cubes to Light VI? No reason to.) Actually, why not expand the idea so that more races use Unique Techs instead of (or in addition to) Unique Units?
For example why not restrict the ability to research Cloaking Device to those races we know actually used them (Klingon, Suliban, and Romulan), allow the Federation to use Saucer Separation, give the Krenim Temporal Weapons, etc. This, to me, seems more useful than a single good unit since said units become obsolete. (Granted, Saucer Separation would mean the Federation gets a large number of "Unique Units" but these would probably be weaker than normal, not stronger.)

EDIT: Here are the new roles:
-Exploration: all would have ranged attack, no other units would (except Bajoran UU), possibly rename to Light
-Light: +25% vs. Heavy, +10% city attack, possibly rename to Heavy
-Heavy: +50% vs. Starbase, collateral damage, put cost and movement in line with light units (maybe slightly higher cost), possibly rename to Battleship
-Barracks: grant free city garrison in addition to free city raider, requires Phase Pistols

It's like you read my mind. I completely love this idea. Although technically Battleship refers to a particular classification of seagoing vessel, the extension into space vessels makes sense. Still, referring to the ships as Light and Heavy Cruisers is much truer to their use in show and movie.

 

[deanej]

I can't have that scenario finished today. I'll try to get it done ASAP.

Also, more discussion on the borg thing... I have opinions in two different directions here.

 

[Agent327]

I like that idea a lot. The Borg Cube is a little overpowered as is (yes, I do remember every Borg episode, but there is a game to recall. Under the current rules, why ever upgrade Cubes to Light VI? No reason to.) Actually, why not expand the idea so that more races use Unique Techs instead of (or in addition to) Unique Units?
For example why not restrict the ability to research Cloaking Device to those races we know actually used them (Klingon, Suliban, and Romulan), allow the Federation to use Saucer Separation, give the Krenim Temporal Weapons, etc. This, to me, seems more useful than a single good unit since said units become obsolete. (Granted, Saucer Separation would mean the Federation gets a large number of "Unique Units" but these would probably be weaker than normal, not stronger.)

Interesting ideas here; I've mentioned limiting Cloaking Device a couple of times, I believe. I don't know if the Borg can possibly be overpowered. (Did you check out apenpaap's latest? The Borg there have stronger units than in deanej's versions, I think.)

Also, more discussion on the borg thing... I have opinions in two different directions here.

Well, that's bound to happen. Might be interesting to see response to the Borg as they are vs. apenppap's version.

 

[apenpaap]

In my version, if you play as the Borg, you have a very easy time. It's fun, though, if you're having a bad day and want someone else to suffer for it.
If you're playing against the Borg they are a huge, but not insurmountable, treat. Their units are very strong, but due to the increased costs they generally come with a low amount of them. Also, they are often universally hated, so it's very easy to get others to dogpile them.

 

[deanej]

Nice to know how they work in that version. I had planned to make them very powerful for The Galaxy scenario but this could allow them to be that way for the main mod as well.