prince shadow game

[Fippy]

You are right with TGW, valid point by Heathcliff but it's not that good.
Pyras are stronger in Iso cos the biggest problem = happiness. Cities will stagnate until either Monarchy or Representation, which you can grab with them.
(not Bureaucracy, different Civic tree )
They also add lots of in Rep.

Wonders are a very important part, it's just that new players often build them inefficient.
So the general advice goes focus more on settlers, workers and all that stuff.
But no good player wouldn't think about Pyras when isolated & having stone.

SW of stone would be for faster access, but misses lots of river tiles.
2N of corn waits for the first border pop so slight delay on improving corn.
Also misses some river (usually valuable in Iso), and "destroys" a better tile (green > brown).

 

[Fabled]

1N of the horses looks like a good spot too, you get to share the corn farm right off the bat, settle on a plains hill, and you grow onto horses and crabs. Folks seem to like grabbing the southern corn, so maybe it's a better site for a 3rd city.

 

[civ4_asker]

Ok guys, I have decided I would like to attempt pyramids (if you think I can get them). I like wonders and pyramids in general. How come in isolation happiness is a bigger problem? To grab pyramids, I need stone connected to my capital quick enough. I think there is enough "whipotential" to make it happen on prince.

Based on that, can you advice a spot to found a city? We have SW of stone, or right on stone, or 2N of stone to wait for the border pop.

 

[AcaMetis]

How come in isolation happiness is a bigger problem?

You can't easily trade for either resources or techs that give you more happiness, and you're unlikely to found a religion either. You're pretty much stuck with what you've got, and if that amounts to a few Calender resources...it's rough.

 

[lymond]

Keep in mind that this is a Pangaea map.

IMO wonders should be secondary to more important concepts at this stage.

 

[SittinDown]

don't forget to get those warriors out of the capital and guarding your next city spots / exploring. the warrior isn't doing you any good in your capital at this point.

want to see if the land connects via the jungle to the South or the desert to the East.

 

[civ4_asker]

lymond, does pangaea map and "wonders are secondary" are linked in some way or are these Independent statements?
Do I need to go SW or right on stone because I am in a hurry? Or can I do 2N to get more river tiles like Fippy said?
I think SW of stone is better than right on stone because that also enables to use the corn.

Spoiler lil :

 

[pigswill]

Barbs on prince aren't a major problem early game, animals and warriors for a long time.

It is Pangea so not isolated albeit somewhat remote.

You could be optimistic and check if there's seafood the other side of stone.

Gilgamesh being creative means you don't always have to settle with food in first ring, five turn delay can be a price worth paying for a superior long term location.

 

[SittinDown]

You are not in a hurry for the stone. Focusing on stone now will slow you down a lot.

You want that wet corn working for you - that's the best tile available to you right now. Next is probably the Crab / Horse up north. [edit: opinions may vary, but those are the clear #2 and #3 cities, no sure about order] You shouldn't settle stone 2nd - it's a lure - if you learn how to connect the stone properly, and chop, and whip, building the pyramids will be pretty easy - you have plenty of time, and bigger priorities.

• Pangaea maps mean that all of the AI's are easily reachable. No navies required.
  • Your game will feature lots of war / diplomacy / trading. In isolation, pyramids are really valuable, because being isolated tends to slow you down, and the pyramids can counteract that.
  • it's very important to know how to scale up quickly into good city spots, and occasionally divert to a useful wonder like pyramids.

 

[lymond]

lymond, does pangaea map and "wonders are secondary" are linked in some way or are these Independent statements?

totally NOT linked statements.

lDo I need to go SW or right on stone because I am in a hurry? Or can I do 2N to get more river tiles like Fippy said?

I see no hurry at all to get stone unless one is adamant on knocking out Mids early. On higher levels and with that intent one would settle such that stone would be in play early.

The point I was making is that your issues have nothing to do with wonders at all. So in my view, Mids or any wonder is not really what I'd be thinking about or discussing. I would rather be discussing proper early gameplay, expansion, making decisions on where to settle, worker management, etc.. These are most important right now..for you.

2N or corn is fine. I like settling on the wine myself cause of city overlap and tile sharing...kinda getting that concept in play. Keeping in mind that the only reason we are considering these spots at all is because you are Creative. otherwise, we'd most def be recommending settling 1N or 1NW of the corn.

(even when creative though, it can generally be best to settle with strong food in first ring so that it can be improved immediately. It does give one a bit of flexibility though depending on the land. For example, city on wine can share the cow before corn is improved.)

lI think SW of stone is better than right on stone because that also enables to use the corn.

Please note that when I mentioned settling on stone, that would be been at some point in the future. Certainly not your first coupla cities. Idea for you first coupla cities at least is for them to be highly productive ASAP, and that usually means food.

 

[lymond]

You really need to get that warrior outta my city ..and get him busting barbs

speakin' of warriors...why do you only have 1 warrior?

 

[Fippy]

Actually too bad that you are creative
Not cos it's weak or anything (pretty good), but without free border pops we could focus on showing you why settling for food first plays such an important role.

Settling on wine as suggest by Lymo has several thoughts behind it:
* you get 2 on your city tile for the whole game, instead of 1
* wine counts as fairly average tile, low and needs Monarchy so cannot be used like early Furs for commerce
* closer to your Capital with tile sharing

But without CRE you wouldn't consider wine, too long until corn (best possible tile in IV) could be improved.

 

[SittinDown]

To add onto the Warrior thing - the settler is going to be done, and slowed down with a 1 move escort - or walking into fog / reach of a 2-move animal. But if you'd kept a warrior 2 W+ 1 S of the corn, you'd be able to fast-walk the settler to the corn spot safely.

 

[lymond]

very good point, SD, although in this case the settler should not have to walk into fog

i'm confused as to what c_a was building while growing.

 

[SittinDown]

very good point, SD, although in this case the settler should not have to walk into fog

correct me if I'm wrong - it does have to end turn on a tile that within 2 tiles of fog - with jungle nearby so it could get panthered.

 

[5tephen]

A general comment on the desert stone tile that I don't think has been made is that getting the resource online is very useful if going to build a stone wonder such as pyramids but the tile itself is really bad and will probably never be worked.

Improving and roading the desert stone will take ~10 worker turns and once improved will provide 0F0C3H. A good solution in some circumstances is to settle a city on the tile as this is equivalent to improving and roading the tile and changes the tile yield to 2F1C1H.

In your map unless there's seafood in the fog the problem is, aside from claiming stone, a city on the stone would be useless but I thought this might be a useful thought process to consider in the future.

 

[civ4_asker]

ok guys, I have noted that normally you would not settle on wine but near the corn. But as I am creative I can do it, so I will do it to explore this tile sharing thing.Which tech should I now tech? I think writing and then mathematics might be a ok choice to chop faster? The war techs don't seem to be usefull now. Water techs also not so usefull as I have no water. Religion I am not sure about.

Spoiler lal :

Another question: What's the next thing I should build in my capital? Maybe a second settle (8 turns) to work the crabs in the north or the corn in the south? Or a worker to improve tiles (5 Turns)? Not sure on which basis I can decide that. Also, is it ok to work that spot 1N of wine as a farm? Or do you have other ideas for the worker?

Spoiler situation :

PS: Does anyone want his name in the 2nd city?

 

[SittinDown]

1. Move your warrior.
2. [edited] Farming the grass river is okay.... but generally people cottage that in the capital, and you just got BW, so chopping may be sensible.
3. Usually the best time to switch into Slavery civic is when your settler is en-route to founding city #2.
4. Probably warrior then worker, then another settler with the help of a chop or whip is a good move.

You want your cities to be working their best tiles as fast as possible, so you don't want to get to 3 cities and only have 1 worker.

Writing is fine. Especially with cheap libraries, but they can wait. Fishing is good to have before you settle the crab site. The horse tile will let that city build a work boat really fast without a chop.

 

[SittinDown]

As you move up, you'll get ambushed by barbarians pretty hard with only 1 warrior, and no fog-busting. You'll want to learn how to send out a couple of warriors to guard the periphery, because (if you don't know).... barbarians can't spawn in a 5x5 area from any unit you have outside your borders, so you can park a few units out there and keep the barbarians from overwhelming you.

So far though you're playing well, and I'm optimistic that you'll learn fast if you keep up with shadow games... I think sometimes the way I talk comes off as negative or harsh.

 

[lymond]

Yep, once again, please move your warrior out.

Also, post a save with your report.

Writing is fine, but on this level I'd probably nab Fish>Pot first. You have some seafood spots, so might as well grab Fish for the bonus on Pot, and subsequently Pot's bonus on Writing.

Yep, that tile will probably be cottaged, but your first priority is chopping. A nice spot to chop is 1N of where the worker is and then place 1 road on the tile after that will create a trade network to new city.

My questions were not answered earlier, but I'm still puzzled by you not having more than 1 warrior. What was built when you were growing before the settler?
Your immediate area could be spawnbusted quite easily and it'd probably be nice to meet at least a couple of AIs. I think AIs don't start with scouts on Prince which may be reason for delay, but they are out there..ha.

Another worker would probably be priority but I'd grow to size 4 on a warrior or two for now to get them out and about, and then setup 2pop whip of worker or settler into the other..timed. with chop.

(I might go back a turn or two to before you started farming that tile as that is basically wasted worker turns)

edit: Oh..another little trick that you should put into practice is making use of worker movement. Workers have two moves. Sometimes you are moving a worker from tile A to Tile C. In that case try to get in the habit, if available, of placing a partial improvement on tile B as the worker moves to the target tile. For example, I assume you moved from Sheep to Cow to improve earlier. You start with the Wheel, so as the worker steps toward the cow, put 1 turn into a road in between sheep and cow>cancel worker action>next turn move to cow to start improving. Great way to maximize worker turns. Keep in mind the worker management is a HUGE part of improving your gameplay and each worker turn counts early. (This practice also works for Tile A to Tile D dead stops where tile D is a hill or forest. Step to tile B > imrpoved/cancel > step to Tile D)