prince shadow game

[konata_LS]

Glad to see people post shadow games! An efficient way to improve playing skills

Some general advice:

• Bug mod is indeed useful. I would have played with Bug of Buffy if I could - after numerous attempts my computer still cannot run correctly Bug, that's why I have to play without Bug. Bug or Buffy contain many useful reminders and save you much time, because you don't have to check everything every turn, Bug will tell you.
  But if you're unlucky with your computer like I am and cannot play with Bug, I strongly recommend you to check each of your cities at the end of every turn, well, at least for the first 100 turns of the game. After meeting AIs, it's also wise to check frequently the diplomacy screen, to see what resources or techs they can offer, and more important, to see if they are into "We have enough on our hands right now" or not.
• The proportion of your number of workers and your cities should usually be 1,5 : 1. For example, you should have 9 workers if you have 6 cities.
  I've checked your T51 save, you have 3 cities but only 2 workers. After finishing Granaries, you'll need at least one more worker. If you have 1,5 worker per city and make sure all your citizens are working improved tiles, your game should be fine at Prince level.

 

[lymond]

Ok..I'm back on my computer later now, ca. I see now that you whipped the worker into the granary and then chopped. Really the effect is the same, and actually getting the worker out a turn faster is nice. Gran now 1t to finish.

I'd step new worker into forest 2N of Nada and chop then road that tile. Lymo city starts a new worker this turn.

SD city starts a WB immediately.

Worker 1S of Nada step 1NE and puts a turn into a road, then next turn steps on the forest with the other worker that moved there to finish chop for worker in Lymo. Completing road on that tile will connect trade route from Lymo to Nada, as road connects to river than Nada is adjacent to.

From that tile 1SE of Lymo, with road complete, a worker can step 1N of Lymo and put 1t into a road, then step onto forested hill 1E of SD to chop for WB. Second worker can follow after. Then the 2 workers can step>part road> move to horse to improve.

New worker in Lymo can chop somewhere...haven't figure that out yet. (edit: I played a couple of turns. so new worker finishes with chop and can move with one of those workers to complete chop for wb...other worker can move to forest to chop for settler in lymo

Nada will grow fast after granary completes. I'd probably start a library in there for now...good spot to run your first two scientists. Lymo can do the heavy lifting for new workers and settlers.

Fish city probably the next target...2E of Fish in this case...wb may come from SD city later...will figure that out at the time..or chopped from fish city. (if not creative I'd settle adjacent to fish)

Warrior way S can move 1 more tile S and spawnbust there for now...provides necessary coverage.

 

[lymond]

I'd point you again to my post here about BUG mod:

BUG

 

[soundjata]

unexpected piece of advice : titles for spoilers are not mandatory

 

[civ4_asker]

Hello, my CIV Version is 319, my Build is 3.1.9.0 would this qulify for the BUG mod? Because on there is says I need 3.13 or higher only?

 

[lymond]

Hello, my CIV Version is 319, my Build is 3.1.9.0 would this qulify for the BUG mod? Because on there is says I need 3.13 or higher only?

yup

 

[civ4_asker]

ok wow, that was a lot!
ok so I build a worker with lymond because of the 1,5 worker per city rule, correct?
Somehow with workers you don't want to move them over long distances, but you want to move a short distance, then improve something, then move on. How come?
Workboat in SD city instead of Granary. What's the calculation behind this?
Library in nada city. How come no settler or worker here?
Settler in Lymondadvicity, why no libary?

Spoiler :

 

[SittinDown]

Somehow with workers you don't want to move them over long distances, but you want to move a short distance, then improve something, then move on. How come?

When they're moving - they're not working. So having a worker hang out and work on a city gradually as the city grows is more efficient than having workers moving between cities.

Basically, you want to have enough workers to always be working improved tiles, and also chop your forests and put down the occasional road.

 

[SittinDown]

Workboat in SD city instead of Granary. What's the calculation behind this?

Because the granary is not that good until you have a decent food surplus. It's better to get your good food tile up and running before you invest in the granary.

Settler in Lymondadvicity, why no libary?

You want 1 library so you can start generating a great scientist. But a 2nd library in a very commerce-poor city like Lymondadvicity is not going to add nearly as much as getting a 4th city going. You'll get a library there eventually after you start cottaging the river, just not yet.

 

[Fabled]

Somehow with workers you don't want to move them over long distances, but you want to move a short distance, then improve something, then move on. How come?

It's an efficiency thing, due to how movement points work (specifically 2 movement point tiles).

Let's say you have 4 tiles in a row: A, B, C, and D. Your worker is standing on A and needs to go to D for the next job. A, B, and C are 1 movement point tiles, but D is a 2 movement point tile. If you move your worker the maximum number of tiles each turn, you'll go from A to C on turn 1, C to D on turn 2, and start your job on turn 3. Alternatively, you could go from A to B and put 1 turn into a job on turn 1, move from B to D on turn 2 (notice how you get an "extra" movement point here, this is a 3 movement point move), and start your job on turn 3. The job starts at the same time, but we got a turn of work on tile B - for free!

Settler in Lymondadvicity, why no libary?

Libraries do 3 things: flat culture (i.e. border expansion), science multiplier, and scientist specialist slots. Since you're creative, we don't care about the flat culture. The science multiplier doesn't do much in a low commerce city (I believe at 4 you get 1 bonus , although I don't recall exactly how the rounding works. BUG shows you these multipliers directly, if you get that set up). Thus, the reason to build a library would be to run scientists, and the purpose of running scientists is generating a great scientist. At this point, claiming and improving land is the top priority, and we don't really have the food / pop surplus to commit to making a great person.

 

[SittinDown]

The short move is an optimization that is somewhat confusing. ....it's a good optimization, but much less critical than some of the other stuff we've been discussing.

I saw Fabled explained it above while I was writing this.... but here's the idea:

It's easier with pictures, but I don't have time at the moment....

Workers get 2 moves. A worker action consumes all of the moves.

The straight foward thing to do is:

• turn 1: [Move -> Move -> (no action) ]
• turn 2: [improve]

But the better thing to do is:

• turn 1: [Move -> improve -> cancel action]
• turn 2: [Move -> improve]

Basically you defer the 2nd move to the second turn, which lets you get an extra worker action. It only works when moving on two 1-move point tiles. It can make a big difference on deity or immortal starts when getting up to speed quickly is vitally important.

 

[SittinDown]

Also...

Spoiler :

 

[Heathcliff]

You are neglecting barb defense.
I know the "experts" here say you dont need barb defences, but I dont agree.
Change all cities to build chariots at once.

 

[Fabled]

You do want barb defense, but a net of warriors on favorable tiles outside of cultural borders is sufficient. Barbarians can't spawn within 2 tiles of a unit (think of a 5x5 square centered on a unit) or in line of sight. If barbs are spawning away from your borders then you get to choose the land you fight on. Even a forest is enough to give a warrior even odds defending against an archer (150% * 2 strength vs 3 strength), add in hills or fortification and you'll be fine.

 

[Heathcliff]

Spoiler :

View attachment 609329

You can clearly see that he has too little barb defence here. It is 1640 BC and lots of room for barbs to spawn to the east and all cities are undefended.

 

[SittinDown]

I'm not an expert. But 3 chariots would be total overkill here on prince. Would probably build 1 after WB / Garnary in horse city if this was my game. Roads aren't connected anyway, so can't build chariots anywhere yet.


that said @Heathcliff - I've been mentioning the fog busting for days now.

 

[konata_LS]

Settler in Lymondadvicity, why no libary?

The library increases your from or specialists. In this phase of the game, you don't have CoL nor Mids, so a library in capital only increases the from in that city. But your capital is not -rich: you don't have Gem or Gold, and you have zero cottage around you capital. A library in your capital may be put off for a while. Besides, you already have Nada city to generate your first GScientist.

If your capital had some early high tiles, such as two Gems or two Gold mines, then a library in your capital would become much more tempting.

Generally speaking, you build libraries in your high cities or high cities (when you're under Rep and Caste system). In other cities, libraries can be skipped sometimes. For example, you don't have to build a library in your Heroic Epic city.

 

[SittinDown]

Later on - @civ4_asker - a chariot makes a great unit for your first great-general, as it can be a super-medic, and heal your units in the field really fast. but that's something for later.

 

[Heathcliff]

No update. Hope you didnt get screwed by barbs.

 

[civ4_asker]

hi guys, thanks for the tips all noted!
Now the question becomes a bit more about worker placement and city specialization, I guess

2 workers at horse city. One could go N, another SE to build a mine and chop maybe? The worker NE to capital coud go east to chop maybe? Not sure!
Horse City might go into a production city, soundjata-nada couldbe commerce city? Capital I don't know...
Settler in Capital is ready soon. Not sure about placement. Maybe somewhere to catch the fish tile in the SW?
Soundjata-nada will grow to pop 4 soon. That maybe be a chance to whip as soundjata-nada is low on hammers but high on food? But not sure how to decide on this?

Spoiler :