Private Prisons Booming

[Tee Kay]

Prison CEO: "Arrest 50 pedophiles until next thursday. If you only find 49 you'll be the fiftieth."

Some things you should not mix with market incentives.

Who'd thought market incentives would sound downright Stalinistic.

 

[Patroklos]

Can anyone point to anything remotely proving a link between a demand for prisoners (actually, you need to prove that exists too) and innocent people being arrested?

 

[Bootstoots]

Did anybody make a claim to that effect?

 

[Patroklos]

Several.

 

[ace99]

Can anyone point to anything remotely proving a link between a demand for prisoners (actually, you need to prove that exists too) and innocent people being arrested?

If you have any doubt in your mind that improving society and lowering the number of prisoners in our country (normally considered a worthy social goal) is a threat to the prison industry business, all you need to do is to read about that concern in The GEO Group's 2011 annual report:

In particular, the demand for our correctional and detention facilities and services and BI's [a prison industry company Geo acquired in 2011] services could be adversely affected by changes in existing criminal or immigration laws, crime rates in jurisdictions in which we operate, the relaxation of criminal or immigration enforcement efforts, leniency in conviction, sentencing or deportation practices, and the decriminalization of certain activities that are currently proscribed by criminal laws or the loosening of immigration laws. For example, any changes with respect to the decriminalization of drugs and controlled substances could affect the number of persons arrested, convicted, sentenced and incarcerated, thereby potentially reducing demand for correctional facilities to house them. Similarly, reductions in crime rates could lead to reductions in arrests, convictions and sentences requiring incarceration at correctional facilities. Immigration reform laws which are currently a focus for legislators and politicians at the federal, state and local level also could materially adversely impact us.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/8731...et-society-improve-or-we-lose-business-part-i

The Florida Independent reported:

According to the Institute [The National Institute on Money in State Politics], private prison groups have spent a lot of money to influence legislators:

Institute records show that donors from the private prison industry made nearly $1 million in contributions to Florida campaigns in 2010 - the most the industry has given over the last decade, as illustrated by the Institute's Industry Influence tool. The majority of the money came from five companies–Geo Group, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), Global Tel* Link, Armor Correctional Health Services, and LCS Corrections Services, Inc.

Private prison companies, however, essentially admit that their business model depends on locking up more and more people. For example, in a 2010 Annual Report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) stated: “The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by . . . leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices . . . .” As incarceration rates skyrocket, the private prison industry expands at exponential rates, holding ever more people in its prisons and jails, and generating massive profits.

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons

The Spoils of Mass Incarceration
The United States imprisons more people — both per capita and in absolute terms — than any other nation in the world, including Russia, China, and Iran. Over the past four decades, imprisonment in the United States has increased explosively, spurred by criminal laws that impose steep sentences and curtail the opportunity to earn probation and parole. The current incarceration rate deprives record numbers of individuals of their liberty, disproportionately affects people of color, and has at best a minimal effect on public safety. Meanwhile, the crippling cost of imprisoning increasing numbers of Americans saddles government budgets with rising debt and exacerbates the current fiscal crises confronting states across the nation.

Leading private prison companies essentially admit that their business model depends on high rates of incarceration. For example, in a 2010 Annual Report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the largest private prison company, stated: "The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by . . . leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices . . . ."

As incarceration rates skyrocket, the private prison industry expands at exponential rates, holding ever more people in its prisons and jails, and generating massive profits. Private prisons for adults were virtually non-existent until the early 1980s, but the number of prisoners in private prisons increased by approximately 1600% between 1990 and 2009. Today, for-profit companies are responsible for approximately 6% of state prisoners, 16% of federal prisoners, and, according to one report, nearly half of all immigrants detained by the federal government. In 2010, the two largest private prison companies alone received nearly $3 billion dollars in revenue, and their top executives, according to one source, each received annual compensation packages worth well over $3 million.

http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/banking-bondage-private-prisons-and-mass-incarceration

 

[Verbose]

Can anyone point to anything remotely proving a link between a demand for prisoners (actually, you need to prove that exists too) and innocent people being arrested?

Kids-for-Cash coming close at least?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

 

[Patroklos]

http://truth-out.org/news/item/8731...et-society-improve-or-we-lose-business-part-i

The Florida Independent reported:




http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons



http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/banking-bondage-private-prisons-and-mass-incarceration

That does not say they are arresting innocent people or pushing to have innocent people arrested.

The statements (many tongue in cheek to be sure) was that when the prisons run out of new prisoners, they will arrest innocents.

The prisons catering to the demands for prisons space generated by the government enforcing laws is not at all the same thing. Unless you want to put forward the opinion that governments are inventing laws specifically to produce more prisoners, in which case they still wouldn't be innocent.

The simple fact that a loss of demand for their service would hurt their business is irrelevant.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Of the 1.55 million people in prison in the U.S. in 2010, 340,000 were in prison for drug offenses. Do you think they ought to rot in prison because they were in possession of a plant or a pill or a powder?

Of course not. Why should we control what people put in their bodies?

Prison CEO: "Arrest 50 pedophiles until next thursday. If you only find 49 you'll be the fiftieth."

Some things you should not mix with market incentives.

Even I tend to agree with this.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Unless you want to put forward the opinion that governments are inventing laws specifically to produce more prisoners, in which case they still wouldn't be innocent.

I was with you right up until this sentence. The government could pass a law tomorrow that having blond hair is now a crime, and while you'd technically be right that blondes are now legally speaking criminals, not a single person would argue that that was morally just. The idea that everybody in prison deserves to be there because they broke the law is predicated on a just system of laws, and there are good arguments to be made that we don't have that in every case. Are those people, technically speaking, innocent? No, I suppose not. But do they deserve to be treated as slave labor? Very very no.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I was with you right up until this sentence. The government could pass a law tomorrow that having blond hair is now a crime, and while you'd technically be right that blondes are now legally speaking criminals, not a single person would argue that that was morally just. The idea that everybody in prison deserves to be there because they broke the law is predicated on a just system of laws, and there are good arguments to be made that we don't have that in every case. Are those people, technically speaking, innocent? No, I suppose not. But do they deserve to be treated as slave labor? Very very no.

For the record, I don't have a problem with prisoners being forced to (Non-excessively) work. After all, we are housing them, to require them to do some work is presumably some form of payment for staying there. Now, I don't usually support prison as a form of punishment anyway, and I certainly don't support imprisoning drug users.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Yeah I don't really have a problem with prison work programs as long as it's kept humane. However privatized prison work systems where they are doing it on a for profit basis are a bad, bad idea that is rife with potential abuses.

In any case I'm of the opinion that prison should only be a punishment for people who commit violent crimes, who have to be removed from society until they are rehabilitated because they are a danger to others until that time.

 

[dutchfire]

Locking up people to work in the production of army stuff? The SS called, they want their business model back.

 

[Patroklos]

I was with you right up until this sentence. The government could pass a law tomorrow that having blond hair is now a crime, and while you'd technically be right that blondes are now legally speaking criminals, not a single person would argue that that was morally just. The idea that everybody in prison deserves to be there because they broke the law is predicated on a just system of laws, and there are good arguments to be made that we don't have that in every case. Are those people, technically speaking, innocent? No, I suppose not. But do they deserve to be treated as slave labor? Very very no.

Was being blonde made illegal simply to provide fodder for the prison industry?

 

[warpus]

Our not-so-awesome Prime Minister up here in the bastion of freedom and democracy is presently attempting to privatise some of our jails, as well as building a whole bunch of new ones.

It's the most idiotic plan ever. Privatised jails have no place in our society.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Was being blonde made illegal simply to provide fodder for the prison industry?

I don't perceive that as relevant, bad laws are bad regardless of why they are implemented, and regardless of the original intent it would still increase profitability for the privatized prisons. We can argue about intent until we're blue in the face but since neither of us work in Congress neither of us would know what we were talking about. At the end of the day the fact remains that some people in prison probably don't deserve to be there, those people are potentially being worked like slaves, and the privatized prison's profit from it. This is a bad system, regardless of what the intent was when the laws were passed.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

For the record, I don't have a problem with prisoners being forced to (Non-excessively) work. After all, we are housing them, to require them to do some work is presumably some form of payment for staying there.

I'd agree in principle, but whatever work they're forced do should never be profitable. Every prisoner should cost more than he brings in, or no matter if the prisons are private or state run, it will be in somebody's interest to lock up as many people as possible.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Yeah I don't really have a problem with prison work programs as long as it's kept humane. However privatized prison work systems where they are doing it on a for profit basis are a bad, bad idea that is rife with potential abuses.

In any case I'm of the opinion that prison should only be a punishment for people who commit violent crimes, who have to be removed from society until they are rehabilitated because they are a danger to others until that time.

I generally lean libertarian but in this case I agree. Like I consider most spheres of activity to be private and that the state should more or less leave them alone, I consider the national defense, police, and criminal justice (Including courts) system something the state should control and private enterprise should stay out of it. And absolutely only for violent criminals.

I'd agree in principle, but whatever work they're forced do should never be profitable. Every prisoner should cost more than he brings in, or no matter if the prisons are private or state run, it will be in somebody's interest to lock up as many people as possible.

I could even go for breaking even, but I agree with you that nobody should be profiting on it.

I highly doubt a true free market system of justice (Note: I'm not advocating this) would even have prisons. They'd either take money, or if that didn't settle, they'd just use the death penalty, in that instance it would be far cheaper. Ironically, it is only in the mixing of the state with the private market where I think this would occur. And I actually think that it may be the worst of both worlds.

Theoretically, for a crime that actually has a victim, I could see all profits being paid to the victim. Theoreitcally I'd support that, but there may be a pragmatic issue there as well.

 

[ace99]

I'd agree in principle, but whatever work they're forced do should never be profitable. Every prisoner should cost more than he brings in, or no matter if the prisons are private or state run, it will be in somebody's interest to lock up as many people as possible.

More to the point, prison work programs should be for the betterment of the PRISONER and hence society, never to produce profit for a private company like say...Apple. A prison system is an abhorrence that should exist with great regret in a democratic society, and to the extent which it exists, should function firstly to insulate society from harm, and secondly to engage in the social and moral betterment of the incarcerated individuals. Thus prison work programs should be firstly non-profit, and secondly targeted toward providing job opportunities and career prospects for the individual once he or she is released. What exists now, does not meet that purpose, and more than that it the private prisons in question have no incentive to engage in that kind of activity, recidivism is good for them. And that more than anything else is what makes the notion unacceptable.

 

[Patroklos]

I don't perceive that as relevant, bad laws are bad regardless of why they are implemented, and regardless of the original intent it would still increase profitability for the privatized prisons. We can argue about intent until we're blue in the face but since neither of us work in Congress neither of us would know what we were talking about. At the end of the day the fact remains that some people in prison probably don't deserve to be there, those people are potentially being worked like slaves, and the privatized prison's profit from it. This is a bad system, regardless of what the intent was when the laws were passed.

That wasn't the question I wanted answered. The question was are innocent people being arrested simply to provide fodder for private citizens. And if you say they are, provide proof.

You keep talking about a law being bad or not, which is irrelevant to my question.

 

[cardgame]

The incentive is there. Justice should be independent of profit.