Project SYNTHESIS

[Barratt_87]

Why are we trying to make ships have to end their turn on a city? Not many ships can cross the atlantic in one turn.. This feature would be more appropriate on early ships but to restrict ocean vessels like that seems a little ridiculous. There has to be better ways to make the oceans more dangerous. Also, forcing them to end on a city would defeat the entire purpose of blockades and sea patrol. Maybe for early ships make them have to end in a players culture zone or be lost at sea. Also, instead of blocking the cape of good hope we should block the entire west coast of sub-saharan africa from early ships

 

[Lex Talionis]

Maybe ships can only be outside of their culture zone for 3 turns or something.

 

[hoplitejoe]

seeing as the Norse probably discovered america way before "ocean vessels" all of this seems pointless and a bit rubbish game wise.

 

[OldGuard]

I think it was mentioned before by Linkman that ships would be safe in cultural borders. It's only when ships are out of borders that they will have limited mobility. From what I remembered reading from previous posts, I think the reasoning behind the ships' limited mobility was to promote colonization in the pacific. Case in point would be Hawaii which would now become an important naval pit-stop.

Also a special case was already made for the Norse regarding their trans-atlantic voyages. They should be able to settle Vinland any time they feel like it.

If Linkman does intend to implement this feature, I think it would be best if there is some sort of mod checklist where we can decide whether or not we want the feature enabled in our games. I think the Dawn of Man mods have this ability but I wouldn't know since the only mods I've been playing are Rhye's and Fall's...

 

[CladInShadows]

I think this is a great idea Linkman, I've always had trouble tossing up between different mods each time I start a game.

There are a few small things that have always bothered me about the base game, and while I could always change them myself, I figure I may as well make them public in case you are still taking suggestions.

1. If you are including older religions (i.e. Hellenism), then you really should give Shinto to the Japanese. Not only was it their indigenous spirituality, but is still practiced alongside Buddhism in the country by over 100 million people. Indeed, much of their history and actions as a nation have been directly influenced by Shinto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto

On a similar note, maybe a religion to represent that followed by the Aztecs and Mayan before the Spanish conquest. Again it was largely the aspect that dictated their entire lives. It would give them something in common, a connection between the different Native American civs. It would also add an extra reason for them to argue with the Europeans once meeting them, which is pretty much the way it happened in history.

2. There is currently no fresh water in the Yucatan Peninsula. While it is true that there are no large rivers or lakes in that area, it is over the worlds largest underground fresh water river system. The entire area is completely covered in fresh water cenotes that were the source of fresh water for the Maya. Every single notable Maya city was built next to one of these cenotes. Thus I find it annoying that when playing as the Maya I have no source of fresh water in my cities, when they should. Is there a way to add fresh water to the tiles in the peninsula to represent this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenote#Cenotes_and_the_Maya

3. Lastly, and again on a similar note, I find it strange that the Maya can't settle in Jungle, or chop it down. It prevents the founding of cities in many areas that they historically inhabited, and I'd say that most of their cities were built within the limits of the jungle.

I'm not sure if this link is very useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Maya_collapse#Drought_theory

but the Mayans were known to have chopped down or burnt away much of the forest and jungle surrounding their cities. Some even believe that this is what lead to their downfall, because their removal of all surrounding jungle led to a loss of soil fertility that turned it unworkable.

As you can see, I'm a bit of a Japan and Central America history buff, so I admit that I'm probably the only one who cares about these things, but I just though I'd see if anyone else was interested

Thanks again for the work you're putting into all this!

 

[CladInShadows]

Actually Tenochtitlan , the Aztec capital was built on an island in the center of a fresh water lake. It seems strange that it has no access to fresh water then as well. I guess the Aztecs weren't trying very hard to find it

Now that I'm thinking of Aztecs, they called themselves the Mexica, not Aztecs, and the correct spelling of their leader is Motecuhzoma. I bring this up only because so much effort has gone into making sure that each city has its correct historical name, and yet the civs themselves and their leaders are incorrect.

Also the Aztecs never expanded by founding new cities, but always through conquering and subjugating surrounding people. Thus their isolation and lack of any real wars until the Europeans arrive in RFC is strang. Maybe they should spawn surrounded by a number of independents, who they could then begin to fight in order to gain territory.

I guess I really should make my own mod with all these ideas...

 

[The Turk]

Montezuma's real name, was not spelt with latin characters, so how could you prove that it sounds like something else?

Also, isen't their a lake one tile below the capital? If there isn't, their probably should be one.....

 

[great.taurus]

Are there plans to incorporate some of the civs from Civs in Abundance?

 

[Moshe Dayan]

Kind of random but to whoever it was who changed the Italian respawn date to 1861, did you change the techs too to make them more appropriate for the later spawn? If so, how?

Also:

Now that I'm thinking of Aztecs, they called themselves the Mexica, not Aztecs, and the correct spelling of their leader is Motecuhzoma. I bring this up only because so much effort has gone into making sure that each city has its correct historical name, and yet the civs themselves and their leaders are incorrect.

Here

 

[BenZL43]

As you can see, I'm a bit of a Japan and Central America history buff, so I admit that I'm probably the only one who cares about these things, but I just though I'd see if anyone else was interested

I'm interested. I was also asking in DoC, why Rhye's make Maya spawn so late? The distinguishable Maya and Olmec culture, IIRC, around 1800BC.. and in their own calendar, converted to our modern calendar, is 3118BC.. But most of theresponses is not good..

I guess I really should make my own mod with all these ideas...

Let's make it! I'm in

Montezuma's real name, was not spelt with latin characters, so how could you prove that it sounds like something else?

Most of the LH name written in RFC is in its latinized form..
And after a few research, here's what I found out...
Aztec : Motecuhzoma (Xocoyotl)
Arab : Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn (Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb)
Inca : Wayna Qhapaq
China : Táng Tàizōng
India : Ashoka
Spain : Ysabel (I)
Japan : Tokugawa (Ieyasu)
Mongol : Chinggis Khaan, Hubilaj Khaan
Greek : Aléxandros, Periklēs
Persian : Kūruš
Russian : Pyotr (Alexeyevich Romanov), Yekaterina II
Mali : Kankou Musa
German : Friedrich II, Otto von Bismarck
Babylon : Ammurāpi
Carthage: Hannibal (Barca)
Ethiopia : Zar'ā Yāʿiqōb
Egyptian : Riʻmīsisu II
Maya : K'inich Janaab' Pakal
Viking : Ragnarr Loðbrók
Portuguese : João II
Turk : II. Mehmet, Süleyman

That's all I can found and what name had been latinized...
The rest are written in their correct form, like example, English and American LH

 

[CladInShadows]

Montezuma's real name, was not spelt with latin characters, so how could you prove that it sounds like something else?

Also, isen't their a lake one tile below the capital? If there isn't, their probably should be one.....

No it wasn't spelled with Latin characters, but that's largely irrelevant. The Nahuatl language has been studied, and is indeed still spoken by many, although in an evolving form. It's known how his name was pronounced, and that this pronunciation is correctly represented by the Latin characters Motecuhzoma. The spelling Montezuma on the other hand, when read sounds quite little like the correct pronunciation of his name.

The spelling Montezuma comes from the Spanish struggling to pronounce Nahautl words, and so early Spanish texts used Latin characters based on their incorrect pronunciations at the time.

This is no different that the fact that, for example, Kyoto is spelled "Kyouto" in RFC to better represent it's ethnic pronunciation.

And no, there is no lake currently below the capital.

I'm interested. I was also asking in DoC, why Rhye's make Maya spawn so late? The distinguishable Maya and Olmec culture, IIRC, around 1800BC.. and in their own calendar, converted to our modern calendar, is 3118BC.. But most of theresponses is not good..

Actually that's a really good point. Their pre-classic period began in 2000BC. Their classic period, when they were at their peak and built most of the large cities, went from 250AD to 900AD, but they were around as a peoples long before this.

I was thinking about the fresh water issue. It should be possible to make a new resource, with no graphic and no change to tile yields, but that provides fresh water in the same way as an oasis does. It could just be called 'cenote' or simply 'fresh water' if it was to be used for Tenochtitlan as well. That way it would not be visible and have no effect other than providing fresh water for cities in adjacent squares. We could place a few of them around the peninsula.

 

[ozqar]

About the aztecs, yeap they called themselves the Mēxihcah. They did build their city, Tenochtitlan, on an island, but later they built artificial land around the island for the city to grow. I had thought that giving them a special settler unit that could settle on lake tiles (but not coast tiles) could be a nice way to represent this. I've no idea if it's possible, but it sure would be cool. And I think that they indeed founded at least two cities themselves, Tenochtitlan and Texcoco, while many other cities of the region were founded and inhabited by other nahua peoples. That would be, people of the same or almost the same ethnicity.

About the water in Yucatan, I'd say that putting an oasis in the middle of the peninsula would do the job of providing fresh water. As for the jungle issue, yeah, they were totally able to live IN the jungle and were used to chop it down for construction material. As I recall, they built their pyramids and other buildings not out of rock, but out of a mixture of burnt ashes (from the jungle's trees) and some soil. So, I think at the very least they should be able to enter and use the jungle as if it were forest tiles.

 

[hoplitejoe]

I had thought that giving them a special settler unit that could settle on lake tiles (but not coast tiles)

that sounds like a pretty bad UU, there aren't many lakes and in this game very few cities founded.

at the very least they should be able to enter and use the jungle as if it were forest tiles.

This sounds good but isn't that more or less the Khmer UP?

 

[Ddude97]

Just tried the mod, evrything looks awesome so far except the decaying resources - could you make that an option? Or just disable it entirely?

EDIT: Oops, it appears Yoshiegg737 already beat me to it

 

[Michael Vick]

Actually Tenochtitlan , the Aztec capital was built on an island in the center of a fresh water lake. It seems strange that it has no access to fresh water then as well. I guess the Aztecs weren't trying very hard to find it

I actually had this idea once to put an oasis there because it kinda looked like a lake and gave the benefits but the tile could still be used. Here are screenshots of some "lakes" of the Americas.
Lake Texcoco, Lake Nicaragua, Lake Titicaca..

The palm trees make them look Ok in those tropical climates but they'd need to be edited to be used in Europe or North America. (Lake Geneva, Lake Balaton, Lake Tahoe)

 

[civ_king]

I actually had this idea once to put an oasis there because it kinda looked like a lake and gave the benefits but the tile could still be used. Here are screenshots of some "lakes" of the Americas.
Lake Texcoco, Lake Nicaragua, Lake Titicaca..

The palm trees make them look Ok in those tropical climates but they'd need to be edited to be used in Europe or North America. (Lake Geneva, Lake Balaton, Lake Tahoe)

Actually, this is a pretty good idea, especially if you could make it so you could improve them and found a city on them

 

[BenZL43]

Maya and Aztec weren't that weak and able to be destroyed by the European that easy.. I personally think Maya should spawn earlier not just because its historical but also because its usually on the bottom of scoreboard... found less techs.. less cities.. less military unit.. like they are there to be crushed down, which is hey, they aren't that bad!

Putting an oasis? Classic yet creative!
But yes. You need to change the graphic because it'll look odd to have a Tropical palm tree in area where palm tree do not grow..

 

[civ_king]

I think the Lake Tahoe tile might be just a teensy bit over powered 111 base +21 Oasis +2 Rice +2 farm +1 levee
yielding 722, then again California needs a buffing

 

[CladInShadows]

About the aztecs, yeap they called themselves the Mēxihcah. They did build their city, Tenochtitlan, on an island, but later they built artificial land around the island for the city to grow. I had thought that giving them a special settler unit that could settle on lake tiles (but not coast tiles) could be a nice way to represent this. I've no idea if it's possible, but it sure would be cool. And I think that they indeed founded at least two cities themselves, Tenochtitlan and Texcoco, while many other cities of the region were founded and inhabited by other nahua peoples. That would be, people of the same or almost the same ethnicity.

About the water in Yucatan, I'd say that putting an oasis in the middle of the peninsula would do the job of providing fresh water. As for the jungle issue, yeah, they were totally able to live IN the jungle and were used to chop it down for construction material. As I recall, they built their pyramids and other buildings not out of rock, but out of a mixture of burnt ashes (from the jungle's trees) and some soil. So, I think at the very least they should be able to enter and use the jungle as if it were forest tiles.

Yeah, but despite the artificial land it always remained surrounded by lake. The artificial land made it similar to Venice, with canals between buildings. It was the Spanish who eventually filled in the lake completely.

I actually had this idea once to put an oasis there because it kinda looked like a lake and gave the benefits but the tile could still be used. Here are screenshots of some "lakes" of the Americas.
Lake Texcoco, Lake Nicaragua, Lake Titicaca..

The palm trees make them look Ok in those tropical climates but they'd need to be edited to be used in Europe or North America. (Lake Geneva, Lake Balaton, Lake Tahoe)

This idea is perfect really. I'd keep those 3, and add one more in the middle of the Yucatan Peninsula to provide water to any Mayan cities there. As for how they look, I personally am not overly fussed, but I guess someone could design a less tropical looking Oasis if they wanted to.

 

[Yoshiegg737]

Just tried the mod, evrything looks awesome so far except the decaying resources - could you make that an option? Or just disable it entirely?

EDIT: Oops, it appears Yoshiegg737 already beat me to it

And also caused a wave of posts to disable it