PROOF that Star Wars would defeat Star Trek in a war

[Skwink]

Then why are you posting here other than to spam?

I am posting my observations of a 5 page long fight about who would win if StarWars and Star Trek fought.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

(note: I've also posted this proof, which I did NOT copy, on other forums, so that may be why you may see similar proof on other forums on the internet)

WARNING: nerd content, although given that this is a Civilization Fanatic forum that isn't that uncommon, right?



The high end weapon yield for a photon torpedo from the Enterprise is 64 megatons if they somehow react with 100% efficiency (which is an impossibility based on modern Science). Since the bast is omnidirectional half of it would be going in the opposite direction of the hull, so the actual upper limit in terms of the damage in which it can do is about 32 megatons.

The lower limit for the durability of the shields of a star destroyer (from Star Wars) is about 1.4E19 joules (actually, this is a very low end estimate). Converted to tons of tnt it's about 3.34 * 10^15 tons of tnt.

3.34 * 10^15 divided by 3200000 (aka 32 megatons) 1043750000.

Basically, the Enterprise would have to launch 1043750000 photon torpedos to get past the shields of a star destroyer, even when we are using high end estimates for the Enterprise and low end estimates for a star destroyer.

That's likely more photon torpedos than the Federation even has in its arsenal.

STAR TREK JUST GOT PWNED (no disrespect to Star Trek; it's a great show)

You've made a mistake in this, and grossly underestimated the complexity of the differences of both Sci-fi fantasy franchise.

One. You haven't been specific in what era for both franchise time-line.

Two. Again what era of the Republic, or the Empire, as well as the Star Trek eras starting from the late 21st century to the early formation of the Federation, or other eras that occurred later in other centuries?

If the rebels during the rise of the Empire during the middle reign of Darth Vader -fought, let's say Maquis or the Bajorans during after their defeat of the Cardassian empire, I would say that would be a balanced fight.

 

[Earthling]

Seriously; you guys aren't debating rationally. You're saying random stuff without understanding the important factors in a war and the technological parity.

You refuse to acknowledge the point that time travel and similar tech would mean Star Trek wins anyway.

Your problem is that you insist on using numbers that nobody else wants to use (others would rather discuss other things relating to the two series), that doesn't mean anybody else is irrational.

But then, from your own viewpoint, regardless of what numbers you go with, you'd have to accept that Star Wars loses because of inferior tech. So if you've set up the "rules" where you're going to list whatever tech and numbers you think go for either side and that's it, then you have to admit by your own rules that Star Wars loses, or else you're the one being hypocritical and irrational.

Also, that youtube video also wins for amazingly intelligent and funny comments on youtube.

Jacksonville St. 49 Ole Miss 48 - that's what they get for not going with Ackbar

 

[hewhoknowsall]

Please redirect me to that post. If SW has cloaking devices, how come the Empire did not use them? A cloaked Star Destroyer is more powerful than an uncloaked Star Destroyer.

1. Star Wars sensors are very advanced
2. To cloak ships to a degree capable of fooling said sensors (which can detect gravitational distortions and such) requires a LOT of power

However, a variant of the X wing called the Stealth X was developed after ROTJ and is used mainly by the New Jedi Order. It's capable of fooling star destroyer sensors.

Basically, a bunch of Jedi in stealth x's can ambush a Federation fleet (note that the stealth x's were powerful enough to disable star destroyer that had shield durability levels in the teratons in a matter of seconds) and destroy it within a matter of minutes or less.

Okay, what system does SW use to generate power? The Ent-D posseses Bussard Ramjets so it is feasable it can collect hydrogen to power the fusion reactors and in turn power antimater generators.

Star Wars uses some fictional substance called hypermatter, and are capable of making reactors with quadrillions of gigawatts of power production.

In fact, the Death Star had a reactor millions of times more powerful than the core of our sun. I'm not kidding.



Oh, and speaking of superweapons, Centerpoint station can create black holes and move planets and stars - FROM ACROSS THE GALAXY.

 

[Adrogans]

Roland: One.
Dark Helmet: One.
Colonel Sandurz: One.
Roland: Two.
Dark Helmet: Two.
Colonel Sandurz: Two.
Roland: Three.
Dark Helmet: Three.
Colonel Sandurz: Three.
Roland: Four.
Dark Helmet: Four.
Colonel Sandurz: Four.
Roland: Five.
Dark Helmet: Five.
Colonel Sandurz: Five.
Dark Helmet: So the combination is... one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! The kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

 

[hewhoknowsall]

You refuse to acknowledge the point that time travel and similar tech would mean Star Trek wins anyway.

I already responded to that argument, but you ignored it.

Your problem is that you insist on using numbers that nobody else wants to use (others would rather discuss other things relating to the two series), that doesn't mean anybody else is irrational.

Since when do you guys decide what gets used and what doesn't? The figures I used are CANON, OFFICIAL NUMBERS approved by George Lucas. If you don't like them, too bad.

But then, from your own viewpoint, regardless of what numbers you go with, you'd have to accept that Star Wars loses because of inferior tech. So if you've set up the "rules" where you're going to list whatever tech and numbers you think go for either side and that's it, then you have to admit by your own rules that Star Wars loses, or else you're the one being hypocritical a

"inferior tech" - the problem with you guys is that you're using the logical fallacy of "omg they have X tech gimmick so they're better"

I've already shown how time travel wouldn't work in this scenario.
Cloaking devices Star Wars also has, and arguably more advanced ones too.
Transporters can't go through shields.

What's more important than some tech gimmicks is the overall tech level, logistical capability, numerical count, training, etc...all of which Star Wars MASSIVELY outclasses Star Trek in.

Germany had a lot of tech gimmicks in WW2 such as jets and still lost. This is like that, only that Star Wars is FAR superior in terms of OVERALL technology (which is more important) than Star Trek.

In fact, Star Wars has tech gimmicks that are actually effective that Star Trek doesn't have:

Hyperdrive (tens of thousands of times faster than warp)
Turbolasers (thousands of times more powerful than photon torpedos)
Hypermatter (capable of power generation trillions of time more than that of conventional fusion)
The Force (self explanatory)
Blasters (far more efficient and combat effective than phasers)
Advanced body armor (self explanatory)
AT-ATs and such (self explanatory)
Missiles capable of making 10,000 G turns (self explanatory)
Capability to destroy planets from ACROSS THE GALAXY (self explanatory)

 

[Adrogans]

Wow. WWII comparisions.

Godwin's Law we are so close.

 

[Ajidica]

1. Star Wars sensors are very advanced
2. To cloak ships to a degree capable of fooling said sensors (which can detect gravitational distortions and such) requires a LOT of power

Star Trek has it beat there. BoP's are I think the smallest ship to use cloaks.

However, a variant of the X wing called the Stealth X was developed after ROTJ and is used mainly by the New Jedi Order. It's capable of fooling star destroyer sensors.

Ah yes. Using stuff not seen on screen. By that logic the federation gets Kirk who apparently destroyed the Borg homeworld.

Star Wars uses some fictional substance called hypermatter, and are capable of making reactors with quadrillions of gigawatts of power production.

Key word here is fictional. For all its other faults, the power system used by ST could concievably be real. Didn't Hawking say something about using a matter/antimatter system for Interstellar drive?

Oh, and speaking of superweapons, Centerpoint station can create black holes and move planets and stars - FROM ACROSS THE GALAXY.

And Farscape Wave Resonance Generators can destroy the entire universe. (The entire Scarran and Peacekeeper fleets were destroyed in a matter of minutes.)
The Ent-E can emit chroniton particles that let it time travel. All they have to do is create a paradox loop in in SW universe that causes time to repeat indefinatly. No tech at all over there.

Transporters can't go through shields.

It can't go through ST sheilds. I'm presuming SW uses a different system.

However, ST has Majel Barret playing Troi's mother. Instant win.
(Best quote from her ever follows)
Troi: Mother, those are Amarian delegates.
TRoi's Mother: I don't care. Last time I saw something that ugly it was on a plate.

EDIT:

Advanced body armor (self explanatory)

It didn't do the Stormtroopers much good. I mean, cut-price Wookies armed with sharp stones and sticks were able to kill them.

Missiles capable of making 10,000 G turns

Huh? Why would you need to turn at 10000 g? ST has inertia dampners and feels no bump when they decelerate from Warp nine to full stop.

 

[Earthling]

logistical capability, numerical count, training, etc...all of which Star Wars MASSIVELY outclasses Star Trek in.

In all of these things Star Wars does not outclass Star Trek, unless you are trying to consider all of the Star Wars galaxy vs. the Federation to come up with advantages in number or something, which is fallacious and unfair on your part.

The first thing, you obviously are wrong about, because you automatically discouting "tech gimmicks" which makes no sense. When at the same time you list Star Wars superweapons and so on but then refuse to acknowledge the same things in Star Trek that would win, you are not considering evidence fairly. Far more advanced technology counts for overall tech level.

By that logic the federation gets Kirk who apparently destroyed the Borg homeworld.

Yes, this is where this discussion was going from the start anyway though. Not really much real evidence to debate, but the evidence there is points to one way for anyone taking a reasonable stance, consistent with general sci-fi/fantasy etc... (like certain techs, alternate dimensions and so on rightly counting to make on verse at a different scale and power level from another) From the start it's been clear though, and I already said it's pointless to debate over material from random sources that contradict each other - I wouldn't want to argue over Star Trek books or something either, there's enough on screen there for sure.

 

[conehead234]

Barf: The minute we move in they're gonna spot us on their radar.
Lone Starr: Nuh-uh.
Barf: Uh-huh.
Lone Starr: Nuh-uh.
Barf: Uh-uh.
Lone Starr: Nuh-uh. Not if we jam it.
Barf: Aha! You're right.
Lone Starr: Down scope.
Barf: Down scope.
[puts down a periscope and targets the Spaceball 1's radar dish]
Barf: Radar about to be "jammed."

 

[hewhoknowsall]

Star Trek has it beat there. BoP's are I think the smallest ship to use cloaks.

Stealth X's

Ah yes. Using stuff not seen on screen. By that logic the federation gets Kirk who apparently destroyed the Borg homeworld.

They were in the books, and the books are canon. George Lucas even made an official statement about it. George Lucas created Star Wars. He decides what's canon in Star Wars and what's not, not you.

Key word here is fictional. For all its other faults, the power system used by ST could concievably be real. Didn't Hawking say something about using a matter/antimatter system for Interstellar drive?

Why does that matter? They're both fictional universes. I never claimed that Star Wars was possible or that hypermatter real. Kirk isn't real, the Enterprise isn't real, but THAT ISN'T THE POINT!

We aren't discussing which sci fi side is more realistic. We're discussing which side is more powerful, which Star Wars wins BY FAR in, largely because it's less realistic.

Star Wars is absurdly powerful, whereas Star Trek isn't.

And Farscape Wave Resonance Generators can destroy the entire universe. (The entire Scarran and Peacekeeper fleets were destroyed in a matter of minutes.)
The Ent-E can emit chroniton particles that let it time travel. All they have to do is create a paradox loop in in SW universe that causes time to repeat indefinatly. No tech at all over there.

Except that the Star Wars books are canon, which you are too ignorant to try and search up.

Your random BSing isn't canon.

 

[Adrogans]

Dark Helmet: Raspberry. There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry: Lone Star!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The figures I used are CANON, OFFICIAL NUMBERS approved by George Lucas. If you don't like them, too bad.

Just out of curiosity, was any of this "canon" stuff written by Kevin J. Anderson?

Moderator Action: Moving this thread to Arts & Entertainment.

 

[hewhoknowsall]

In all of these things Star Wars does not outclass Star Trek, unless you are trying to consider all of the Star Wars galaxy vs. the Federation to come up with advantages in number or something, which is fallacious and unfair on your part.

The first thing, you obviously are wrong about, because you automatically discouting "tech gimmicks" which makes no sense. When at the same time you list Star Wars superweapons and so on but then refuse to acknowledge the same things in Star Trek that would win, you are not considering evidence fairly. Far more advanced technology counts for overall tech level.

I made a list of Star War's gimmicks and explained how Star Trek's gimmicks wouldn't be effective against Star Wars.

 

[Adrogans]

Spoiler :

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.
T-canon[1] refers to the canon level comprising only the two television shows: Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee.[2]
C-canon is primarily composed of elements from the Expanded Universe including books, comics, and games bearing the label of Star Wars. Games and RPG sourcebooks are a special case; the stories and general background information are themselves fully C-canon, but the other elements such as character/item statistics and gameplay are, with few exceptions, N-canon.
S-canon is secondary canon; the story itself is considered non-continuity, but the non-contradicting elements are still a canon part of the Star Wars universe. This includes things like the online roleplaying game Star Wars: Galaxies and certain elements of a few N-canon stories.
N-canon is non-canon. "What-if" stories (such as stories published under the Star Wars: Infinities label), crossover appearances (such as the Star Wars character appearances in Soulcalibur IV), game statistics, and anything else directly contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N-canon is the only level that is not considered official canon by Lucasfilm. A significant amount of material that was previously C-canon was rendered N-canon by the release of Episodes I-III.

So basically you keep digging further and further away from the movies. Star Wars is so contradictory to itself that it had to devise levels of Canon.

Though I still think Q alone will end this discussion.

 

[Earthling]

Your random BSing isn't canon.

Everything he listed is canon, as in on-screen at that. Time travel is canon in Star Trek; Star wars loses.

I made a list of Star War's gimmicks and explained how Star Trek's gimmicks wouldn't be effective against Star Wars.

Doesn't matter because your argument was wrong, as you were incorrect about anything there being effective against time travel.

 

[Cutlass]

In the original Trek, a small hand phaser could vaporize a man. A rifle size SW blaster doesn't do much more damage than a gunpowder projectile.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

In fact, the Death Star had a reactor millions of times more powerful than the core of our sun. I'm not kidding.

Little grasshopper, let's say for the sake of the argument, that your highly esteemed Death Star was suddenly thrown into the Star Trek universe at around the late 24th century. Would you really think it would have survived for long without the protection of the Federation, or other Empires? Even if it did have a huge quantity of fleets surrounding it, would you care to take a bet that it could even survive from a random onslaught of Borg Cubes, if the people in the Death Star managed to tactfully create alliances with other Empires in the Alpha Quadrant, and obtain some of their technology and weaponry?

 

[Arakhor]

This is an unwinnable argument, OP. You even say that Star Wars is on a completely different scale of reference to Star Trek. Why do you insist on throwing your oranges at our apples?

 

[hewhoknowsall]

Doesn't matter because your argument was wrong, as you were incorrect about anything there being effective against time travel.

Except that you didn't refute the argument, nor did you respond to it. I made a list of valid points, and you completed ignored it, instead saying that I’m wrong and citing my reason as…because I’m wrong. I’m wrong because I’m wrong? Circular reasoning anybody?