Unconquered Sun
Emperor
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- Dec 20, 2006
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105 post-math. The percentages stack but don't multiply.
Protective Trait-- Underrated?
- Thread starter PreLynMax
- Start date
105 post-math. The percentages stack but don't multiply.
obsolete
Deity
I don't believe so. With 25% + 25% (Forge + Factory for example) your Protective with Stone & Math should only get about 105 g per tree, and the OF is capped at 14 or so.
obsolete
Deity
Well... that depends now. If you take Quin, for Industrious Protective you now get those forges up super fast due to half-price discounts. Also, that hammer over-flow.. you could dump that into a wonder. Now look what happens...
For each over-flow hammer you put into the wonder you get that huge commerce bonus back when the build expires...
And you get extra 50% for being industrious...
And you get 100% for having the resource (you chose a wonder which you have a resource).
So you get even more than your... regular theoretical calculations for the trick.
Anyhow..... I have more important things to do with the industrial traits, but this is just one issue where another player can veer off for his own thing if he really wants to.
You'll also probably be laughed off the forum by most people for choosing Qin's traits but you just have to roll with the punches.... or play him in secret.
For each over-flow hammer you put into the wonder you get that huge commerce bonus back when the build expires...
And you get extra 50% for being industrious...
And you get 100% for having the resource (you chose a wonder which you have a resource).
So you get even more than your... regular theoretical calculations for the trick.
Anyhow..... I have more important things to do with the industrial traits, but this is just one issue where another player can veer off for his own thing if he really wants to.
You'll also probably be laughed off the forum by most people for choosing Qin's traits but you just have to roll with the punches.... or play him in secret.
I am a cowardly little turtle that likes shiny shiny wonders. Qin is just dandy. Especially with Drill2Formation Chokonu. The Ai rarely brings archery units when it attacks so they maul everything in an AI SOD. Then I get peace and build more shiny thingies.
Interesting stuff.
And there's nothing wrong with Qin.
Yeah, I never tried 3.17 without the unofficial patch, so maybe that's a factor in why I'm a bit confused about how this all works.
And there's nothing wrong with Qin.
lol I was wondering why, when I tried it, it seemed way less useful that people claimed it to be. I think I only got 1for each
that I chopped - not the supposed 3
Yeah, I never tried 3.17 without the unofficial patch, so maybe that's a factor in why I'm a bit confused about how this all works.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Are you using the unoffficial patch, Piece of Mind? Dresden limited hammer overflow to what you could get if you had invested those hammers in wealth ( 1:1 ratio )
obsolete
Deity
This 1:1 ratio is horrid. Everyone who understands the basics of this game knows that hammers are far more important than wealth.
I see the classic case of someone trying to fix something that isn't broke.. but ends up breaking it himself.
It's part of the trait, so leave it for Christ-sakes. I don't see anyone trying to nerf financial, despite the forums are loaded with claims of how great and over-powered it is. So lets make financial civs rediculously costly then to balance it out.
I see the classic case of someone trying to fix something that isn't broke.. but ends up breaking it himself.
It's part of the trait, so leave it for Christ-sakes. I don't see anyone trying to nerf financial, despite the forums are loaded with claims of how great and over-powered it is. So lets make financial civs rediculously costly then to balance it out.
Wodan
Deity
You have to have Currency to do all this, right?
r_rolo1
King of myself
His rationale was not because of protective, but of making chariots in a city with all the hammer multipliers and military build bonus, that gives more than 400 gold per chariot easily.
And the hammer overflow tricks are not part of the Pro trait, ppl. It is a game quirk that works well with ( but not only ) Pro walls and nothing more.
P.S Wodan, you don't need currency. that is a big part of this trick appeal.
And the hammer overflow tricks are not part of the Pro trait, ppl. It is a game quirk that works well with ( but not only ) Pro walls and nothing more.
P.S Wodan, you don't need currency. that is a big part of this trick appeal.
obsolete
Deity
Rolo, do you understand how crazy a 1:1 is?
Try rushing the 3GD through US to get part of the idea...
This isn't a fix, it is another PROBLEM now that will have to be fixed.
Try rushing the 3GD through US to get part of the idea...
This isn't a fix, it is another PROBLEM now that will have to be fixed.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I haven't said that I agreed with the change dresden made in the code ( I already told him that I don't , so no issue from me. Firaxis doesn't think this is a bug worth fixing anyway.... This quirk is known sice warlords days and no fix in BtS from them :/ ). Just wanted to expose his rationale.....
Can you explain what the problem was before and how it's different to the problem now? How should it be?
99% of my games are played with Better AI, and that incorporates Dresden's patch as far as I know.
I think I agree with the change the way it was made. I don't see any obvious reason why overflow hammers should be converted to gold through production multipliers. It's usually pretty hard to get this hammer to gold conversion by accident anyway i.e. it's cheesy if you're trying to make the gold.
obsolete
Deity
Rolo, maybe I was too hard on him. I see the latest version of BtS also is returning expired wonder hammers at only a 1:1 ratio. So I guess his patch is a bit consistant, despite it seems to still be quite a RIP-OFF if I do say so myself.
Back in the nice olden days wasn't it a 1:3 ratio?
Take a look at the ICBM. In order to US rush, I still need 3x gold, and GOD HELP YOU if you didn't put some hammers into it on the previous turn! So why are we now stuck in a non-reciprocal mechanic?
Back in the nice olden days wasn't it a 1:3 ratio?
Take a look at the ICBM. In order to US rush, I still need 3x gold, and GOD HELP YOU if you didn't put some hammers into it on the previous turn! So why are we now stuck in a non-reciprocal mechanic?
JujuLautre
Deity
You have always been stuck with non-reciprocal mechanics: Building wealth is now 1hammer:1gold (was before 2 hammers:1 gold), while US is 3 gold:1hammer (except if you have kremlin obv). If people could easilly exchange hammers for gold and gold for hammers at the same rate, I would believe the system is broken. Especially with production boosters and Kremlin around. Fortunately, it's not.
Getting gold from wonders and overflow tricks, while doable, is definitely not the natural way to do it. I do not see myself any good reason to complain if a change is done to this system. This is debatable of course.
Getting gold from wonders and overflow tricks, while doable, is definitely not the natural way to do it. I do not see myself any good reason to complain if a change is done to this system. This is debatable of course.
obsolete
Deity
Yes, I am aware of that. Of course if your over-all output is still at a 1-to-1 you are doing something very, very wrong. Just another reason why Beuaracracy is such an important civic.
2 hammers per gold seems just insane to me. What version was this?
I could swear back in Vanilla there was a point where you got 3-gold for each wonder hammer on expiry. But then again, you USED to be able to build all media wonders 100% boosted with... ummm what was it now....
It will come to me...
Ahah! Marble! After a while they removed this bonus... upsets a lot of us but what can you do. They also removed the production bonus from Globe-theatre, unless these are just all bugs and we ASSUME they purposely meant to remove them
Juju, any other interesting changes you remember?
JujuLautre
Deity
2 hammers per gold was vanilla. I believe they changed that in Warlords.
I do not remember any point when gold for wonder was 3:1. But again, I did not play from the beginning.
Any other interesting changes? Well, I do not know your definition of interesting
creative getting half priced libraries? That was an interesting change.
I do not remember any point when gold for wonder was 3:1. But again, I did not play from the beginning.
Any other interesting changes? Well, I do not know your definition of interesting
creative getting half priced libraries? That was an interesting change.Skallagrimson
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2006
- Messages
- 2,043
LOL, I tend to be that way in the early game, although I prefer shiny buildings like forges and aquaducts over most wonders. Right about the era where you get rifles/cannons/cavs/grens, that's when I switch more into Napoleon mode and pretty much warmonger the rest of the game, because I laid the pipe in my cities to be huge and productive and I end up with 5+ unit pumps blasting out "almost too many" units by that time. No whipping or drafting required, just raw brute hammers, partly because of the buildings I build (which gets shouted down by the deity braggers here, but I don't care, I find them helpful).
I don't totally avoid wonders though, because I like cash rewards for having "tried".
LOL, it's pretty rare that I play Chicken Wing (Qin Shi Huang), but when I do then yeah, I lurve me some CKN stackage. Spies for defense drops and you don't even need siege.
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