Protesters turn violent again against minuteman speaker.

[skadistic]

http://www.statenews.com/op_article.phtml?pk=40863

This is the only report I could find on google.

There is little doubt that Simcox, and what he stands, for are abhorrent, but the worst thing anyone who opposes him can do is yield the high ground. When people start screaming, banging chairs, ignoring police officers' repeated requests to calm down and start getting arrested, they lose the high ground.

That speaks volumes about the situation. A man who speaks about illegal imigration is "abhorrent". Atleast the rest of that paragraph has merit. To bad the rest of the artical doesn't. Why is it these protesters keep doing this? Weather its at the boarder or a collage in NY or at MSU the protesters are the ones getting violent and arrested. Yet these fools continue to call the Minuteman Project and its speakers the evil, violent, racists.

The kicker is that the people arrested are demanding that the groups who invited the MMP to speak should be tossed of campus, their charges should be dropped and that they should be compensated. It seems that these criminals are doing the same thing their criminal illegal aliens are doing. They commit crimes then demand rewards for it. Freespeach seems to only work for the liberals that shout down and assault others.

 

[JollyRoger]

Anti-capitalists have traditionally inspired violent protest in the United States. Since the Minutemen are anti-capitalist enough to want to suppress the free market supply of labor, it is no suprise that they have a hard time finding a sympathetic audience in a capitalist country.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

The campus geniuses think that keeping Mexicans as slaves is good for Mexicans.

 

[Masquerouge]

There was a very interesting article in this WE's NYT about the farm bill, that basically stated that because of high federal subsidies to corn and wheat, the US was basically putting Mexican farmers out of a job... and guess where an unemployed Mexican farmer is going to go to find work?

 

[JollyRoger]

The Minuteman Project cannot even secure its own boardroom or prevent fraud from its leaders, so it seems kind of funny to listen to them criticize others about security and legality.:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-gilchrist11mar11,1,2097481,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

 

[skadistic]

There was a very interesting article in this WE's NYT about the farm bill, that basically stated that because of high federal subsidies to corn and wheat, the US was basically putting Mexican farmers out of a job... and guess where an unemployed Mexican farmer is going to go to find work?

American farms. But the VISA that allows them to work legaly is the most issued visa. Most Mexicans working on farms are here legaly. And that has bearing on the millions of illegals here.


From all over the world. Lets not forget that illegal alien is not a race and doesn't = Mexican

 

[Bozo Erectus]

There was a report on NPR this morning explaining that historically, whenever the slave labor from Mexico and Central America dries up, it leads to advances in agricultural automation technology, and ultimately turns out to be a benefit for American farmers. The Slavery vs Automation question has been around in the US since before the Civil War. Automation is always the best answer.

 

[skadistic]

The Minuteman Project cannot even secure its own boardroom or prevent fraud from its leaders, so it seems kind of funny to listen to them criticize others about security and legality.:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-gilchrist11mar11,1,2097481,full.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

I'm not regestering to read that. But does it just say that there are alligations or that people were actualy indited and found guilty of a crime?

There is a difference between be acused of a crime and the millions of actual criminals who are here that the MMP is speaking out against.

http://origin.presstelegram.com/news/ci_5319264

There was a report on NPR this morning explaining that historically, whenever the slave labor from Mexico and Central America dries up, it leads to advances in agricultural automation technology, and ultimately turns out to be a benefit for American farmers. The Slavery vs Automation question has been around in the US since before the Civil War. Automation is always the best answer.

Its not slave labour now is it? No it may be low wage but its not slave. You could atleast try to be honest.

 

[JollyRoger]

I'm not regestering to read that. But does it just say that there are alligations or that people were actualy indited and found guilty of a crime?

There is a difference between be acused of a crime and the millions of actual criminals who are here that the MMP is speaking out against.

Well you've got the founder of the Minuteman project accusing his board of criminal activity and the board accusing him of criminal activity. All have been leaders of the Minuteman movement, so it is either a case of someone committing a crime or all of the leadership of the Minuteman project being wrong in their accusations. Neither would suprise me based on track record.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Its not slave labour now is it? No it may be low wage but its not slave. You could atleast try to be honest.

You cant handle the truth! [/Jack Nicholson]

The wages that theyre paid are so low that it might as well be slavery, by todays standards. They arent even citizens of this country, just like our slaves back in the 19th century. The label 'slavery' is what bothers you? Fine, call it, oh, I dont know, 'free market supply of labor', or something like that.

 

[skadistic]

You cant handle the truth! [/Jack Nicholson]

The wages that theyre paid are so low that it might as well be slavery, by todays standards. They arent even citizens of this country, just like our slaves back in the 19th century. The label 'slavery' is what bothers you? Fine, call it, oh, I dont know, 'free market supply of labor', or something like that.

What bothers me is when people use loaded terms like slavery when they talk about migrant workers. The majority of the farm workers are here on the agricultural VISA and by law get paid noless then minimum wage. But lets not let the truth get in the way.

"Might as well be slave wage" only fits if it slave wages wich was how much? Nothing. So if they are making minimum wage how is that nothing? It isn't.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Alright lets put it this way: which would you prefer, importing people from the Third World to work in the fields for us, or making some simple investments in automation that would pay for themselves many times over?

 

[JollyRoger]

But if the free market finds a group of workers willing to work below the minimum wage why should the government or the Minutemen stand in the way?

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

But if the free market finds a group of workers willing to work below the minimum wage why should the government or the Minutemen stand in the way?

Why are you trying to make this a free market debate? The minutemen want immigration laws to be enforced which has nothing to do with whether they like free market economics or not.

And While I am very pro free market I recognize that economics doesn't work quite they way we would like it to across nations due to different governments, taxes, tariffs, subsidies, etc.

 

[skadistic]

But if the free market finds a group of workers willing to work below the minimum wage why should the government or the Minutemen stand in the way?

Because its illegal ,there are still laws that need to be followed. We work in a regulated market. But you knew that.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

But if the free market finds a group of workers willing to work below the minimum wage why should the government or the Minutemen stand in the way?

Because it clearly has drawbacks, which is precisely why this is such a hot button issue.

Let me ask you the same question: Isnt it preferable to invest in automation than to rely on imported labor, slave or otherwise? Someone on the NPR program said that US agriculture cant compete globally relying primarily on low wages. It could never win that way, but it would win if it modernized and automated. I think he's absolutely right.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why are you trying to make this a free market debate? The minutemen want immigration laws to be enforced which has nothing to do with whether they like free market economics or not.

The free flow of labor has nothing to do with free markets? If the Minuetmen want to be on record for being for the suppression of labor, then they should at least recognize the anti-capitalistic concepts involved.

 

[JollyRoger]

Because its illegal ,there are still laws that need to be followed. We work in a regulated market. But you knew that.

So you are for the minimum wage?

 

[skadistic]

The free flow of labor has nothing to do with free markets? If the Minuetmen want to be on record for being for the suppression of labor, then they should at least recognize the anti-capitalistic concepts involved.

Why not just open the flood gates and let everyone in? The MMP isn't anti-capitalist its anti-illegal imigration. Why don't you stop trying to divert the real focus to something you can use to demonize the MMP with. Its still better then calling them racists but reaks of pettiness.

So you are for the minimum wage?

So are you daft or just trolling. Whats your point exactly and how does it fit in with stopping criminals from crossing illegaly into the US? You really look desperate.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Why not just open the flood gates and let everyone in? The MMP isn't anti-capitalist its anti-illegal imigration. Why don't you stop trying to divert the real focus to something you can use to demonize the MMP with. Its still better then calling them racists but reaks of pettiness.

What I find amusing is that as a supporter of the Minutemen, you should be thanking me for handing you such a compelling and logical argument to use against those who throw chairs at Minutemen.