Prove Satan exists

[HamaticBabylon]

I'm the owner of the prove X exist thread, and i say there should be more!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Than he is a rather incompetent con man, considering how many people actualy do believe he does.

Maybe he should take classes with Mr. Frank Abagnale Jr...

Regards .

For reasons I can only speculate on, the forum keeps crashing on me when I try to answer posts in this thread. I shall attempt to answer this again...

You state that many people believe that Satan exists.

I reply: "Which Satan?"

The real Satan is a powerful spirit creature who was once an angel, and the demons who serve him are likewise. The real Satan holds no power at all in the spiritual realm of Jehovah. The real Satan has sunk his hooks deeply into the heart of this world, this system of things, where materialism is rampant, and positive spiritualism (service to Jehovah) is rare.

Satan is not a red, goat-legged man with a black goatee and horns on his head. (In point of fact, the Bible states that he always appears as 'an angel of light'.)

Satan is not the tormentor of the damned, nor is he ruler of some spiritual place of torment for same. (In fact, there is no such place, and no such people to populate it, at least, not in the Bible.)

So when the question, 'Does Satan exist?' gets asked, it really has to be narrowed down somewhat. The question should be: "Does Satan exist as described in the Bible?"

Most of the responses to this thread, and especially to my posts, seem to be replying to the question: "Does Satan the Red Goat-Legged Man with a Black Goatee Exist?"

So, I ask for clarification, which of the above two questions are we trying to settle here?

It seems plain to me that the Satan that those masses believe in that you refer to is not the Biblical Satan, but rather the secular Satan (the RGLM w/a BG). Given that, I'd estimate his success rate at well over 99%. Frank Abignale seems to be the amateur, from my PoV.

 

[Inter4]

He's not red with horns and a tail...he's just a rebel angel with other angels (demons) that support him. That's all.

 

[HamaticBabylon]

He's not red with horns and a tail...he's just a rebel angel with other angels (demons) that support him. That's all.

The Quran say that he was with the Angle for some time and then when man was created he went from good to bad. His origin is Jin (made from hot scorching wind).

 

[shadowdude]

The best trick that satan could play would be to make you think he didn't exist.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

The Quran say that he was with the Angle for some time and then when man was created he went from good to bad. His origin is Jin (made from hot scorching wind).

IIRC, the jin were part of the ancient Arab religion centered around things like Kismet and all that. Flying carpets, sorcerors, genies, magic lamps, et al.

Assuming that's correct, it seems obvious that the Quran is a fusion of ancient teachings and either Judeaism or Christianity, or maybe both. I was going to use one of those 'defusing' phrases like, 'not to be condescending of Islam, but', or 'not to disrespect your culture, but', but there's no way to say this without being condescending and disrespectful:

If Islam is a mix of Fateism (or Kismet, or whatever ancient Arab religion was called) and Judeaism, then it can't be a valid religion, and is basically an 'upgrade' or 'patch' to what passed for religion in Arab culture at the time of Mohammed. I realise that this statement is insulting and condescending and Muslims everywhere will hate me for saying it (if they don't already for me being a Christian, and even worse-an American by birth), but I can't see any other valid reconciliation of the facts in evidence being possible.

FWIW, I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just pointing out what the facts seem to say.

 

[stormbind]

That is my opinion of Islam: That it is a "patch" written by mortals, like Microsoft Windows updates.

The only teachings I put faith in are those of Jesus, which are renegated in the Quran and missing from the Old Testament.

These three religions are all related, but just look at the non-Jesus issues:

Quran: Spill the blood of infidels.
Old Testament: An eye for an eye.

Are these ingredients of peace and tollerance?

 

[Inter4]

The best trick that satan could play would be to make you think he didn't exist.

That IS his biggest trick.

 

[Revolutionary]

What a laugh. You're going to talk to me about taking responsibility for ones actions? Where do you stand on the abortion debate again?

this has nothing to do with abortion so stop trying to change the subject to what ever the hell you feel like ranting about

and people who choose to have an abortion are taking responsibility for there actions, they accept that there pregenant and that it is better not to have the child and go see a doctor about it...

Satan doesn't force anyone to do anything. 'The Devil made me do it.' is a loser cop-out even as you say it is. Satan does not drive us into temptation, he leads us there, and most of us choose to follow of our own free will. Heck, many shove him roughly aside on their way there (in a manner of speaking).

While Satan doesn't control anyone, he does have ways of getting us to do what he wants us to, and hordes of demons to help him spread his tendrils across the world. He whispers his lies into the ears of anyone foolish enough to listen.

oh please temptation is a result of human emotions and human nature, don't blame some mystical creature for your cravings and desires, doing so is nothing more than denying your natural instincts

Just because you can't beat it doesn't mean it isn't true. It just means that your chosen place and cause of battle are meaningless to me. I'm only here to explain that to you, and to explain why.

nice try but you completely avoided my statement I said "of course don't try to prove this real because it will go against the wishes of "God" , this has got to be the most successful con game ever played in history" I said nothing about my "chosen place and cause of battle" or asked why those are meaningless to you, as I couldn't care less about what is or is not meaningfull to you

and what do you mean by "Just because you can't beat it doesn't mean it isn't true"? are you saying that just because I can't beat this con game doesn't mean that this con game isn't true

because I said nothing about beating anything

Pretending not to recognise humor is silly, please stop it. I was making the humorous remark that God's supreme and merciful patience with the Israelites was 'actually' the mark of a slow learner. For you to take it seriously is. . . intellectual dishonesty at best. That said, even God has to wait for us to make our choices to learn what they will be. Predestination is a myth, we all have free will.

if thats what you call humor then my advise to you is never try to become a comedian

it's not my fault that you didn't indicant that your statement was an attempt at humor

this is a forum where people read your post we can't read your mind or body language, so unless you indicant otherwise other people must take your posts seriously

I am unaware of any other kind of Christian. I am sure there are a great many people who profess to be Christian that will be confounded and dismayed and utterly surprised by Armageddon, but they are not Christians.

Christians, having read the Bible and accepted it as God's Word, have read Revelations. Having read Revelations, they know that this world is coming to an end at some point in the future, and that it will come to that end after some decidedly unpleasant things come to pass first.

not all Christians are the same and not all Christains believe in Armageddon or take the book of Revelations literally

oh and saying that "people who profess to be Christian that will be confounded and dismayed and utterly surprised by Armageddon, but they are not Christians" is the No True Scotsman fallacy, thus this part of your statement is invalid

 

[FearlessLeader2]

If the 'Scotsman' in question was born in Tzilapocatl, and has dark brown skin, stands 5 feet 5 inches tall, and never even heard of a kilt, is he a Scotsman?

There is one and only one definition of what it is to be a Christian, and it is found in the New Testament. If a 'Christian's' beliefs come from anywhere else, then they are not Christian beliefs, and he is not a Christian.

Your attempt to shoot down a totally valid point is thereby annulled.

The rest of your post being deliberate misrepresentations of what I actually said, and then hot denials of those misrepresentations (AKA Strawman Phallacy, since we're down to that already...), this should suffice.