PTSD "Defense" Works

Formaldehyde

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Hillsborough judge orders former Marine to treatment, probation in fatal 2010 DUI

TAMPA — The grieving widow of Pedro Rivera, a 48-year-old father of five, told a judge Thursday that the brain-injured combat Marine who killed her husband by driving drunk needed medical care more than a prison sentence.

"We can't just keep doing things to people who need help," Carmen Rodriguez said.

With her blessing, former Marine Capt. Scott Sciple, 38, survivor of four combat tours, was sent to a psychiatric hospital. He could have gotten 15 years in prison for DUI manslaughter. After sentencing, Sciple's mother embraced the widow, placing her son's silver crucifix necklace around her neck.

Last year, the Marine Corps made an extraordinary admission that it had failed to diagnose and treat Sciple for traumatic brain injury and post traumatic stress disorder and never should have sent him to MacDill Air Force Base.

"Had Capt. Sciple been referred and treated in a timely manner," a Marine investigation concluded, "it would have broken the chain of events leading up to his accident and his arrest for DUI manslaughter."

Sciple, who has been jailed for the past year, declined the judge's offer to speak. His attorney, John Fitzgibbons, said speaking was too difficult for Sciple, but he is "incredibly sorry" and appreciates the compassion of Pedro Rivera's family. He's no longer a Marine. Fitzgibbons said he has been discharged with a 100 percent disability rating.

The Marines sent him to Tampa after his treatment in San Diego for a severe arm wound caused by a rocket explosion in Iraq. Despite bizarre incidents in San Diego — including finding himself in Mexico with no memory of how he got there — Sciple was declared fit for duty and given a classified desk assignment at MacDill.

The crash happened within days of his arrival.

Sciple has always said he couldn't remember the Aug. 25, 2010, crash. He told police he could recall going out in the evening to buy Skoal and beer. He remembered getting lost, getting out of the car and trying to orient himself by the moon. He said he couldn't explain how his blood-alcohol level spiked to three times the legal limit, or how he ended up on I-275 near Bearss Avenue, driving north in the southbound lanes.

Rivera and his wife were on a rescue mission that night. Rivera, a mechanic, had helped a friend with an engine fire on I-75. As they returned home at 4 a.m., Rodriguez told her husband, "Doesn't it look like that car is headed this way?"

Recovering from her own injuries, Rodriguez urged a prison sentence for Sciple, regardless of his three Purple Hearts, his post traumatic stress disorder, his memory losses, his 114 medical prescriptions issued in 2009 and 2010.

"I have faith in American justice," she said last year. "Pedro's death cannot be brushed off like that of a dog, killed in the street."

But in court Thursday, the widow said her feelings changed after seeing Sciple's parents, Sam and Lynne, suffer through court hearings. "They're so old," she said. "The pain they're going through is the same pain I'm going through."

She told Assistant State Attorney Barbara Coleman she preferred medical treatment to a prison sentence.

Hillsborough Circuit Judge Lisa Campbell ordered Sciple's transfer to Poplar Springs Psychiatric Hospital in Petersburg, Va., a locked facility that specializes in military-related disorders. He will initially undergo a 90-day evaluation. He will remain in the hospital until the court rules otherwise.

Then Sciple will begin two years of community control and 12 years of probation. "Defendant must continue to receive treatment from a psychiatrist or psychologist during the entire term of his probation," the judge's order said.
In this state, they typically lock the person up and throw away the key for DUI manslaughter no matter the circumstances.

Do you think this is any sort of legitimate excuse for being 3 times over the BAC limit and killing someone while seriously injuring another?

Do you think it foreshadows what might occur in the ongoing court martial of the serial murderer in Afghanistan?
 
I'm ok with this case because of the widow's stance (though if her marriage was bad, she may have had mixed motives). The defendant should certainly not be allowed behind a wheel though.
 
This could really set a precedent if fellow Christians start forgiving others based on how their family feels instead of demanding retribution. I really don't see how the feelings of the family of the victims should come into play at all in sentencing.

What I find particularly disturbing is that Sciple didn't say a word.
 
A long stay in a psychiatric hospital followed by over a decade of supervision is exactly what I would recommend in this case. Alternatives to prison are a good idea where they can be implemented, especially in cases of severe mental illness (+ physical brain damage?) like this one. This seems like one of the rare cases where Florida actually imposed a reasonable sentence.

Now if everything had been the same except that he was a poor black guy who had PTSD because of conditions experienced in a violent inner city...there I doubt Florida would have been as reasonable.
 
You could certainly argue that the Draconian punishments handed out for DUI manslaughter should be heavily modified, and I would agree. That people who drink and drive need counseling far more than incredibly harsh prison sentences. But I think giving such preferential treatment to one person that completely runs contrary to the previous sentences on this basis is absurd.

As you just pointed out, it would certainly not be done in other similar cases. The "I was blind drunk because I was suffering from psychological problems" defense typically carries no weight at all.
 
Who cares what the wife of the victim has to say anyway? The fact that it's the first line of the article deters me from reading any further (i did), when they go straight for the emotional line.

A long time ago in English common law (and now american) we've decided a lot of crimes are not crimes against the victim but against the state and the King's peace.
 
What is the average sentence for a DUI manslaughter in Florida? I see that the maximum is 15 years, but it sounds like the judge has at least some leeway. What about where the family of the deceased is in favor of psychiatric treatment as an alternative to prison, as it was in this case?

I do suspect he probably did get off easier for being a veteran than someone else in a similar position would have. But I'm really okay with a bit of inconsistency when the normal sentence is something draconian. I'd prefer this guy get treatment rather than throw him in prison for up to 15 years just in the name of consistency.

But I will admit to finding it hilarious when "tough on crime" people pull a 180 where the perpetrator of a crime is a current or former member of the military.
 
I dont like PTSD being used as a defense. Only reason its being allowed to fly IMO is that PTSD tends to be a disease you gain while doing heroic things. Frankly quite a bit of criminal actions have past psychological trauma involved in the perpetrator's life. Rapists who were sexually abused, spousal abusers who were beaten as kids, etc. While I support treatment over just punishing, I think its unfair to all the PTSD people who follow the law to just give the ones who dont free healthcare for not doing so.

So I guess for me personally Im for reducing the sentence, but not straightup avoiding prison.
 
What is the average sentence for a DUI manslaughter in Florida? I see that the maximum is 15 years, but it sounds like the judge has at least some leeway. What about where the family of the deceased is in favor of psychiatric treatment as an alternative to prison, as it was in this case?

I do suspect he probably did get off easier for being a veteran than someone else in a similar position would have. But I'm really okay with a bit of inconsistency when the normal sentence is something draconian. I'd prefer this guy get treatment rather than throw him in prison for up to 15 years just in the name of consistency.

But I will admit to finding it hilarious when "tough on crime" people pull a 180 where the perpetrator of a crime is a current or former member of the military.
The typical punishment seems to be the maximum sentence or near it. Many defense attorneys tell their clients if they ever kill someone while drunk to run for it. At least they will likely be sober if they are caught.
 
Hillsborough judge orders former Marine to treatment, probation in fatal 2010 DUI



In this state, they typically lock the person up and throw away the key for DUI manslaughter no matter the circumstances.

Do you think this is any sort of legitimate excuse for being 3 times over the BAC limit and killing someone while seriously injuring another?

Do you think it foreshadows what might occur in the ongoing court martial of the serial murderer in Afghanistan?

Its not an excuse in determining guilt or innocence but might be a mitigating factor during sentencing.
 
In my opinion the problem in taking into account victim's family views (as in Islamic law and trials)
is that if judges do it, then it sets the scene for pressure (promises of bribes or threats) being put upon the victim's family by defence lawyers or accomplices.


Despite bizarre incidents in San Diego — including finding himself in Mexico with no memory of how he got there

And I hought that San Diego was in California.
 
Being crazy is no excuse for drunk driving.
 
Its not an excuse in determining guilt or innocence but might be a mitigating factor during sentencing.
If he didn't know what he was doing was wrong, then it should be a an affirmative defense to guilt. If he knew what he was doing was wrong, I do not see why it should, in and of itself mitigate a sentence. If anything, it should not likely even offset what should be an aggravating factor - that he was military and was taught better at taxpayer expense. Nevertheless, victims and victims' families are often listened to.
 
Being crazy is no excuse for drunk driving.
Who said it was an excuse.
There is a difference between an excuse and a reason/cause.

It feel sorry for everyone involved... it's sad. The driver is already screwed up because his country asked him to fight in BS wars, and he did so, at personal cost which has now extended beyond himself (in at least this way)... now add massive guilt to the list.

The wife lost her husband... husband's dead...

Lose - lose - lose situation.
 
If it is a reason or a cause for getting blind drunk, driving on the wrong side of the interstate, and killing someone, do you want to treat anybody else with emotional or psychological problems in a similar manner?
 
Who cares what the wife of the victim has to say anyway? The fact that it's the first line of the article deters me from reading any further (i did), when they go straight for the emotional line.
My thoughts exactly.

As kochman said, effed up for everyone involved.

edit: Hmm, a "what they said" post. Adding exactly nothing to the discussion. Well done Ziggy.
 
If it is a reason or a cause for getting blind drunk, driving on the wrong side of the interstate, and killing someone, do you want to treat anybody else with emotional or psychological problems in a similar manner?
Nope. I personally think, doesn't matter if you are loaded, crazy, what have you... you do the crime, you pay the time... whatever the crime may be.
 
Did he break the law? The court will decide.
I know you think you know all the details of the case, but you don't.
 
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