Public school Vs private school.

[Mojotronica]

My brother is fond of saying "I went to public school, but I can do THAT math..." when he wants to underscore a point that he thinks is particularly obvious. Which leads me to ponder -- are public schools really inferior to private schools? Is so, are they VERY inferior? And again, if so does that not indicate that folks who are able to attend private schools have a significant advantage over those who are left to attend public schools?

What does that say about the class struggle? Do the poor really have equal opportunity?

In the US, voucher subsidies have been proposed to help poorer families pay the expenses of private schools, and implemented in some areas. These vouchers are paid for with tax dollars from the coffers of the (poorly performing) public school district the student is assigned to.

Three additional thoughts...

1. Most or all private schools in the US are parochial -- affiliated w/ a particular religion... Where do atheists or alternative religion worshippers send their kids to get a top notch education without sacrificing the families religious values?

2. Private schools reserve the right to reject applicants, so even if his family wants to send their child to the private school (because presumably his public school district is decrepit) they may not have a choice.

3. What if, even with the voucher subsidy, the family that wants to send their child to the private school is still too poor to come up with the remainder -- private school is expensive!

I've always been skeptical of the voucher idea for the above reasons, but of course if I have the choice I'd rather send my children to a private school... Now that my youthful idealism has been worn down, I can't honestly say I'd want to subject them to the crap I went through!

 

[puglover]

Neither. Home School! Think about it. Who knows the child better than anyone else? The parents! The kid gets individual attention and feels closer to his parnets. He's less likely to rebel because he spends a lot of time with his parents. I like being home-schooled.

 

[Ohwell]

Public schooling is just fine.......... in Europe.

The US Public Education system is crazy. It teaches the kids to pass the test, not to actually learn anything. I could go on. I could, I really could. But it's really horrible. They have the means, the will, and the resources to make it better, but they don't. It's all bureaucracy now. There's a hundred and one "assistants", "coordinators", "deputys", among others, sitting at their desks sipping coffee, with fat wallets doing nothing, all because the fat-cat superintendent wants to give some jobs to his buddies. Because of this the kids suffer.

 

[Greadius]

There is this strange impression people have that kids actually go to school to get educated. But, lets draw upon personal experiences of the plethora of self-proclaimed brilliant individuals that frequent here.

I went to public school. I learned a lot there. I took the advanced classes, was surounded with people that were smarter than me and didn't care, or kids that weren't but put forth a lot of effort. My average class size was about 25. Florida is #49 in the nation on education spending, and near the bottom of all measurable catagories.
School is about socialization, and if we're lucky, exposing kids to ideas that resonate with them. College is for learning. As I've observed with any dozens of people who I went to both levels with, nobody cared in High School. We didn't want to be there, we didn't want to learn, and we weren't interested. This type of apathy is only multiplied by people who don't have the capacity to recover, and as a result it looks like the public schools are doing something wrong. They're not.

Now, lets look at the difference between public and private school. In private schools, the classes I was never in don't exist. They only take capable students, and can discriminate freely with the stupid or lazy. Of course they look like they're doing a better job; they're only educating students they see as having potential, or one's whose parents ride them to success, or actually put forth effort in their school work. The kids that really don't care, the masses, are stuck in public school anyway, dragging down the numbers as a result.

European schools work in a similar manner, except the weed out the indifferent students by age 10 or so and send them on a vocational path. That way, they don't have to count those kids when they say how great they're Grammar schools are. Its the same think private schools do: weed out the failure and then tout your success. Only in the bottom end of public High Schools can you see desperately misguided teachers trying to explain Shakespeare's nuances to future burgers flippers. Its a sad statement on the fact that society REFUSES to give up on these kids. We're trying too hard to ensure equal oppertunity, and if anything that is damaging the image of public school beyond repair. Back in the good days when public schools were impressive those kids weren't allowed on the property. They were vagrants, now they're students. What kind of difference did we expect?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Greadius, that characterization of the nature of the private school system is rather innaccurate. One has experience from both sides of the education equation in the private system, and it is vastly better than its public equivalent.
It does not weed out the less intelligent; all types go to such schools, it is just there is a higher rate of achievement because of better resources, better teachers, better methods of motivation and discipline, smaller class sizes, and an allround approach to the child's full education.
The chaff are still there with the wheat, but even the chaff is raised up further and improved in some or several capacities.

Homeschooling is mainly a US phenomenon, and there is no actual proof that it turns out better or worse students. What it does do is cut out the social interaction and growth potential that occurs within a wider school environment, and can consist of unqualified parents giving their world view by rote, rather than real education.

 

[mad_stork]

There are 2 major problems with public schools in the US:

1. The teachers. Some teachers are good, but a vast majority of them are not. One reason why teachers aren't very good is because they are waaaaay underpaid. Not very many college students aspire to be teachers because teaching is not a good way to make money. In California (and I believe in other states) to become a teacher you must get a bachelors degree, and then become a student teacher for one year to get your teaching credential. Student teachers have to take classes, and teach (this pretty much takes up all their time) and at the same time pay their college while they are not getting any payment for their teaching services. So after 4 years of college, and 1 year of teaching for nothing they can then get a job where they are not respected and they get paid a very low salary. Meanwhile the better students are getting degrees in engineering or business etc. where they can get a better salary right out of school!

2. Students are forced to go to school until they are 16. If a student does not want to learn, you are not going to be able to teach them and they will only provide a distraction for the other students. If eduction were voluntary, there would be less students which would mean the teachers time could be more directed to individual students. Also, all the riff-raff that doesn't want to be at school wouldn't be there to cause problems.

Here are my solutions:

1. Double teachers salaries (I'm willing to pay higher taxes if necessary)
2. Getting a teaching credential should be much more specialized, rather than just getting a a liberal arts degree and then adding a few classes on how to teach.
3. The CBEST and MSAT (tests that teachers have to take) should be much harder. I used to proctor these tests, and let me tell you, they are a joke.
4. Make attending school optional.
5. Make it easier to expell disruptive students.
6. Make it easier to fire bad teachers.

 

[cgannon64]

Private school. Your point about the religions being associated with them doesn't have to be relevant. There are a few Athiests who go to my Catholic school, and they actually enjoy religion class. They think of it as a learning experience, hearing what we believe. If there is a mass, they just don't participate - quite simple, really. Morning prayers - just watch. Most of them seem to even enjoy it.

I think the problem with public schools is the teaching. Even though public schools pay their teachers more than private schools do (at least most private schools) their teachers are worse. The teachers who teach in private school seem more dedicated - they would have to be to take the lower salary. Also, the more strict enviroment of private schools seem to aid the learning experience (imo). I've been to a public school - I felt confused; it seemed too laid back for me.

@ Greadius: I think the kids that actually care in private schools deserve to get more attention. Sure, we shouldn't give up on the ones who don't, but...let the teachers focus on the ones who are actually listening.

can you guess which one i went to

 

[newfangle]

Originally posted by puglover
Neither. Home School! Think about it. Who knows the child better than anyone else? The parents! The kid gets individual attention and feels closer to his parnets. He's less likely to rebel because he spends a lot of time with his parents. I like being home-schooled.

Home-schooling often results in a dangerous lack of social skill development.

 

[gael]

I don't know much about home teaching, but from my own experience, school determines what sort of man you are going to grow into as an adult, ( to a certain extent), through competition and social interaction with peers of your own age.
Anything else, in my opinion, is abnormal.

I live in Northern Ireland, so we live under the English system of schooling that states if you are not fit on the day of your 11+ exam (age 11) then you will spend the rest of your education in a 'lower class' secondary school, as aposed to a grammer school.

I know people who have went to grammer schools and wasted it, and others who have went to 'lower' schools and excelled.

Nationalist politions here are calling for this exam to be banned, for the reasons that, kids of this age develope at different stages depending on enviroment, family, freinds, and general "I'm too young too give a f**K". (and that it makes no sense.)

The problem with these schools is that smart kids go into them thinking that they are second class, being taught by low paid/low grade teachers, and rebel against education. Basically, on the basis of one exam at age 11, it lowers there chance and atitude towards higher education.

On the bright side, education here is free. The government will pay for your degree course and give you money to live on, on the promise that you will pay it pack when you start making money on a certain level. So you get a second chance.

Americia, as far as i know, has a system were you have to have money if you want to get a good education. A case of the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. ( Thats a bit extreme, its just to make a point)

I may be wrong. ( I hope so)

 

[Furry Spatula]

I am a product of the Private school system in BC. I just got out last year. I have been in both private and public systems and i have friends who went through public. So I feel i can give a bit of a contrast here.

There are only 2 major differences in terms of the quality of education. The Private schools do get some funding from the government thus they must comply with the province wide curriculum. This means that the content is the same all around the province.

Difference one: Teacher attitudes. I know this is a generalization and if there are any teachers out there i mean no offence. But Private school teachers seem to care more about the education of the students. It is very easy to get in contact with a teacher if you need help in a private school. This is contrasted with a public school as it is quite hard to get in contact with teachers if you need extra help. A friend of mine experienced this and so did i when i was in the public system

Difference two: The learning environment. The students aren't sheltered. The are exposed to drugs and alcohol, however it isn't as prevalent. There were kids kicked out for using drugs for example. However much less S*it happens at the school. They are strict however there were no gangs and to my knowledge, for the 6 years i was there, i only witnessed about 3 fights. There was ofcourse rough housing, but the admin knows that we're kids and allows "fighting" (ie dog piling, wrestling in the halls etc.) aslong as you don't keep doing it everyday and aslong as it isn't personal. There is a big focus on education. You keep fighting you're out, you keep doing drugs you're out.

Those are the differences that i noticed.

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
It does not weed out the less intelligent; all types go to such schools, it is just there is a higher rate of achievement because of better resources, better teachers, better methods of motivation and discipline, smaller class sizes, and an allround approach to the child's full education.
The chaff are still there with the wheat, but even the chaff is raised up further and improved in some or several capacities.

The main difference is they've got parents that care. I said in my ranting post that if the parents ride bad/lazy students they'll still succeed, public or private.

The discipline difference has a big effect too, but then, private schools have the luxury of throwing kids out without much difficulty, and they're more likely to fear reprimands since, as mentioned above, their parents actually care.

Originally posted by gael
Americia, as far as i know, has a system were you have to have money if you want to get a good education. A case of the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. ( Thats a bit extreme, its just to make a point)

I may be wrong. ( I hope so)

You are
Public schools provide a good education, provided the student is willing to pursue it. Like I said above, and I'm sure many people my age can attest to it, public schools weed out the students that are on a college track and those that are not. There are some classes that place a high demand on students and those that aren't. The main problem is we all still get the same degree, but that is beside the point.
And secondary education is almost identical as far as funding goes. I'm sure I've mentioned it before but I'm completely free riding off the government for my secondary degree because I come from a low-income household, and I'm not incredibally capable and am an obscenely lazy student.

 

[gael]

Bum post.
never mind

 

[WildFire]

I am a proud student of my Public High School!
Just cause the school is broke, we had numerous bomb threats last year, and our water was contaminated and we had to have coolers shipped in for a 'one year project' that took 3 1/2 years, doesnt mean that Public schools are worse.

Although i would have to argue that Private Schools are probably better because the teaching, but then most of the time, the Public schools have the better sports teams. And i like sports

 

[joespaniel]

Private school kids would get their arses kicked by public schooligans.

You did mean in a street fight, right?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by WildFire444
Although i would have to argue that Private Schools are probably better because the teaching, but then most of the time, the Public schools have the better sports teams. And i like sports

Not in this country, nor Britain!

Joe - Not quite. But out of interest, why say that?

 

[joespaniel]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Joe, why say that?

Because its late, and Im tired...

Goodnight.

 

[SunTzu]

Public school, private school is full of stuck up snobs

 

[Skullbones]

Originally posted by Ohwell
The US Public Education system is crazy. It teaches the kids to pass the test, not to actually learn anything. I could go on. I could, I really could. But it's really horrible.

True, so very very true. When I went to school (public) the whole idea behind "teaching" was to help the kiddies get A's so they could get into a good college. Everyone should have equal learning opportunities but they (not all, but almost all teachers) taught at the level and speed of the slowest/most ignorant student. For example: Some kid can't understand the basic concepts behind say the Revolutionary War. The teacher then spends an extra 1 or 2 weeks on the subject wasting everyone else's time. Then the teacher decides to just have an open book test so he/she can move on. Fantastic right? The same stuff would be taught year after year. I really don't think someone that can't pick out the subject and verb in a sentence is finally going to get it in their senior year. I don't think this type of teaching helps anyone.

 

[Grisu]

I can't speak for other countries but here people usually hold public schools in higher esteem than the private ones. The common belief is that only rich kids who are too stupid/lazy to do public school go to private schools to "buy" their degree, I can't really tell wether this is true since I never was in a private school but judging by the ones I know who went there it certainly seems at least partially true.

 

[MontyPythonRule]

I say we should ban all private schools. That way all the advantages of private schools would become advantages of public (or state) education. For example, as Greadius said a lot of private school parents push their children hard in an attempt I assume to get their money's worth (and, of course, get their kid a good education). Now these "good" parents would be part of the public education and so bring that up to standard through their constant demanding of higher standards etc. Also their money would be put into public education meaning more resources etc. So overall the country as a whole would benefit from having a better educated workforce and so everyone would benefit.