Python Performance and Interface Overhaul (PPIO)

What percentage of hammers turn into money when demolishing a building? Currently it is 4%. The popup from CTRL-A says 20% but this is applied twice, leading to an effective 4%. A percentage much higher than that has consequences for game balance.
 
What percentage of hammers turn into money when demolishing a building? Currently it is 4%. The popup from CTRL-A says 20% but this is applied twice, leading to an effective 4%. A percentage much higher than that has consequences for game balance.
It isn't actually "applied twice" in C2C, there is a bug so that the gold you get is based on the hammer cost on normal gamespeed. The gold it says it gives is scaled by gamespeed while the gold you get is not. This modmod has fixed that bug.
Right now it cost money in this modmod though, and I think it's currently at 7%.

C2C also wanted to scale by era as well as by gamespeed which makes the gold sum higher and higher the later the era. This modmod ignores era for this calculation because I'm too lazy to write the code needed to analyze what era each building hails from. Without that scaling the percentage is probably closer to 3% for buildings in the last era with this modmod.

v0.5.8.9
  • Further refinement to the demolish screen.
    • Moved the list tooltip to a fixed X coordinate, among other things.
  • Abandoning city now gives food and trade merchants based on stored food and built buildings.
    • If the city has a courthouse you will also get a judge.
 
C2C also wanted to scale by era as well as by gamespeed which makes the gold sum higher and higher the later the era.
Must be that the gold was based on the production cost of the building drawn from the functions that would tell you how much you needed to build it if you were trying to. I can see the logic in this and also how it might make it harder to audit how the value gets from pt A to pt B.

If the city has a courthouse you will also get a judge.
Hah! Cool! :)
 
Is it possible to separate map, manufactured and culture bonuses in resource list (city screen)? My resource list looks like total mess in endgame save :p
 
didn't even think of asking that, lol, but yeah knowing which Map resources you have is quite nice to easily see which you're lacking,
 
Sure, I'll make it my next goal to complete.
I agree this would be highly useful.

I am REALLY starting to want to have you work on this directly in the core... if nothing else so I can give you feedback.
 
On your polling... the
Demolish buildings gives gold while abandoning city cost gold (based on population).
option seems to be winning.

I'd like to say that my problem with this is that it then just means you're enforcing the player to sell off everything first individually.

IF you included that only ONE building could be SOLD (for benefit) in a round, then I think we're cookin'. In fact, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have a building tag that enabled more buildings could be sold in a round, like a demolition company or reclamation business building could add an extra building could be sold in a round (while perhaps as standard building tags, also giving a little gold for increased commerce and production for reclaimed materials, as the city would need this naturally for its ongoing natural updating of buildings.)

I suppose to do that we'd need to get deeper than I'm ready to so it could be a longterm project goal. Introducing a new tag for that would then pretty much demand that we included some 'destroy building' AI so the AI is able to make positive use of the system when needbe - which we do eventually need I think, as ways to help manage certain negatives that can build up too strong. Doing that without causing the turn times too much delay will be really complex. So again, longterm project goal.

But it would still be sufficient to simply set the amount of buildings that can be 'sold' in a round to a solid 1 only for now.
 
On your polling... the
Demolish buildings gives gold while abandoning city cost gold (based on population).
option seems to be winning.

I'd like to say that my problem with this is that it then just means you're enforcing the player to sell off everything first individually.
The value of demolishing all buildings would naturally be subtracted from the abandon city cost under this set-up.
Anything else would be stupid without a limit to how many buildings can be demolished per round.

Demolishing buildings is an advantage the player has over the AI, so I would prefer it to cost money to demolish.
The AI are stuck with buildings that do more harm than good, why should the player get a reward for removing those buildings?
I will respect the wish of the majority though.
 
The value of demolishing all buildings would naturally be subtracted from the abandon city cost under this set-up.
Anything else would be stupid without a limit to how many buildings can be demolished per round.

Demolishing buildings is an advantage the player has over the AI, so I would prefer it to cost money to demolish.
The AI are stuck with buildings that do more harm than good, why should the player get a reward for removing those buildings?
I will respect the wish of the majority though.
I'm thinking from a perspective of what would happen in RL. The AI using it for benefit can come later. I don't think at a return of 20% that there would be much selling off for gold... though maybe. And if you would just subtract the value of the buildings sold from the cost, that could still end up in later game settings either costing too much or too little - the balance would be tough. So better to limit how many buildings can be 'sold' for gain in a round.
 
Limiting the number of buildings that can be sold per round: more micromanagement. So no please.

Removing buildings will cost money: not realistic. In real life, if you stop paying their monthly wages, all your "employees" will go away by themselves. So no please.

Regarding the AI not selling off buildings: the only buildings worth selling off is buildings that cause crime (and possibly disease and pollution once these get more important). The AI tends to have tons of money so thriftiness is not necessary.

Surely writing a piece of code that sells off crime-producing buildings based on threshold values (if crime > 500 sell off crime-producing buildings, also, don't build crime-producing buildings unless crime < 0 ) shouldn't be an extremely hard piece of code.
 
Removing buildings will cost money: not realistic. In real life, if you stop paying their monthly wages, all your "employees" will go away by themselves. So no please.
So where is the money coming from for the building demolition? Are the employees doing that job supposed to not get paid? And monthly wages would be reflected in upkeep, though many buildings are assumed to pull a profit and contribute taxation.

Surely writing a piece of code that sells off crime-producing buildings based on threshold values (if crime > 500 sell off crime-producing buildings, also, don't build crime-producing buildings unless crime < 0 ) shouldn't be an extremely hard piece of code.
Surely its a bad idea to keep building and then destroying buildings though? This kind of cycle would be better answered by expanding on the city's ability to manage crime. You'd really have to be in an impossible situation to improve your crime management to want to start selling off crime buildings, given many of them add XP, new unit options, a lot of compensatory gold, and more. The unit upkeep to control the crime is usually a profit for the city in the end, particularly when the crime has come down to 0 or less.

So a proper AI would need to only start evaluating which buildings to sell off when it's in a gold crunch as well as a crime problem. And that's for crime. What about unhealth, unhappiness etc? If you cannot build your happiness, should you start selling off buildings that provide unhappiness?

Limiting the number of buildings that can be sold per round: more micromanagement.
How is it more micromanagement to limit it to one per round so you cannot profit from sacking the city? Profiting from sacking the city is what I'm firmly against. Profiting from SOME reclamation from a building makes a little sense but not if you're abandoning everything in your wake.
 
So where is the money coming from for the building demolition?

Consider history. When the Romans defeated Carthage, they destroyed the capitol city - to remove the history of the Carthaginians.

Not for money- but to destroy the culture. Obviously looting troops etc. did pillage the City before the order to demolish it was given.

So in game play terms a percentage gain needs to be considered. Idealy based on winning leader traits, if possible.
 
Consider history. When the Romans defeated Carthage, they destroyed the capitol city - to remove the history of the Carthaginians.

Not for money- but to destroy the culture. Obviously looting troops etc. did pillage the City before the order to demolish it was given.

So in game play terms a percentage gain needs to be considered. Idealy based on winning leader traits, if possible.
You do pillage gold the moment you capture the city, so why should it be so lucrative to demolish the city after it is pillaged?

I am REALLY starting to want to have you work on this directly in the core... if nothing else so I can give you feedback.
DH is the python king of C2C, and this is a python modmod.
I'll need to hear more from him first, a pity that he's had so much computer problems lately.
 
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Why do you have to physically demolish a building? Just let it rot, or give it away to some locals.
 
I still think there should be a clear difference between you have all the time you want to sell a building an reuse the site / materials so get gold (or production Caravans?) from it, or if you are at war and demolish an enemy city or even your own just so that your enemy can't use it after they take it (back).
 
Why do you have to physically demolish a building? Just let it rot, or give it away to some locals.
The government system in C2C would not assume total control of all buildings. If a shopping center is there, it becomes naturally worked. If a Bandit's Hideout exists under governmental authority, bandits will use it (most not realizing whether state supported or not). So we must assume it is only by dismantling a building and its operations can it be 'removed' from the city. Which requires effort and labor and possibly some bureaucracy as well. In fact, the creation of a building should be seen as a bureaucratic effort of applying for and obtaining permits and such in addition to the actual construction itself. It is as much an act of the government endorsing the building if it's not a completely social program. Obviously, in Civ we don't have a system that declares private or national control over a building so some of this discussion would almost have to get into that.

But if you were trying to keep a building from being useful to an invading force that takes the city before you lose it, just leaving the building abandoned is exactly not the way to do that. That just leaves the operation to be picked up where it was left off.
 
You do pillage gold the moment you capture the city, so why should it be so lucrative to demolish the city after it is pillaged?

When you capture the city you get the Governments/City Councils gold.

When you demolish the city, you get the peoples gold.

That is my opinion.
 
When you capture the city you get the Governments/City Councils gold.

When you demolish the city, you get the peoples gold.

That is my opinion.
Why would the government get the people's gold? It's supposed to be an administrative act to disband the city, not a hostile razing. The people are probably mad enough about that without you having to steal their gold in the process. It's more of an evacuation than a punishment.
 
v0.5.8.9.1 - Performance update.
  • Removed several BUG options (City screen tab)
    • Show turns until Culture Growth on city culture bar. (Always shown, no longer optional)
    • Show turns until great person is born on city GP bar. (Always shown, no longer optional)
    • Mark the turn remaining for city construction that you have invested hammers in with Cyan color. (Always shown, no longer optional)
    • City specialist display options. ( They didn't do anything )
  • Performance improvements to python code here and there.

What do you think about the icons I chose for the right side list tabs?
Spoiler City Screen: :
8800_20171128164830_1.jpg
v0.5.9
  • Added icons to the tabs on the right hand list in city screen.
  • Split bonus list tab into map and manufacture bonus tabs.
  • Placed culture bonuses in properties tab for the time being.

@strategyonly: have you tried this modmod, I would appreciate your comments on it.
 
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