Questions for George Zimmerman supporters.

[Hygro]

But should any one case ever be about some wider nebulous issue? That's totally unfair to the defendant who cannot have any racial motives actually pinned on him. If others find it unfair that he wasn't judged for all of society, then frankly they can suck it because they don't deserve to have some sort of societal justice meted out against an individual.

I basically agree with your sentiment. I ask you to revisit it if you ever stumble across wanting someone to be made an example of.

 

[MobBoss]

I think one thing that's being overlooked is that a lot of people (or maybe just me, but I like to think I have somewhat common thoughts) aren't really upset by the verdict but by the case. And in this, Zimmerman is actually just, fairly or not, a personification of wider issues in America today, issues that some seem to be willfully ignorant of.

I agree with this 100% and in fact would offer that those out there protesting this verdict are probably far bigger racists than Zimmerman ever was. They are more interested in pursing this entirely on race despite what facts where presented in the courtroom disproving that. Hell, even the FBI report on this incident indicates that race was not a factor in this at all.

But to those racists out there protesting none of that matters.

 

[timtofly]

I agree with this 100% and in fact would offer that those out there protesting this verdict are probably far bigger racists than Zimmerman ever was. They are more interested in pursing this entirely on race despite what facts where presented in the courtroom disproving that. Hell, even the FBI report on this incident indicates that race was not a factor in this at all.

But to those racists out there protesting none of that matters.

And Trayvon Martin's death was justified how? Are we letting race color the fact that a person died? I agree that this trial had everything to do with one George Zimmerman, but little to do with the death of a person.

 

[Disgustipated]

I do mostly support Zimmerman, although publicly I support Martin so people don't accuse me of being racist. People on this forum have accused me of being racist for voting Republican in the past. I know liberals accuse people of being racist for the slightest deviation for what they consider acceptable. I know I shouldn't bring politics into this, but it should be plainly obvious that most conservatives supported Zimmerman, and most liberals support Martin. I'm not sure why that is exactly. But you could see it in the beginning with liberal news like NBC slanting the story in favor of Martin. So it is a political issue.

I do think he's possibly guilty of Manslaughter (look up Florida law on manslaughter- using too much force in self defense qualifies). But it's all a moot point at this point. Zimmerman really had no reason to fear for his life, he knew the police were on their way. The police would have saved him from getting his ass beat.

Either way, justice was served. Let the issue drop.

 

[Hygro]

Wait, I think I misunderstood you. You think that Zimmerman was mostly in the right, that Zimmerman had no reason to approach, that he could (maybe should?) be guilty of manslaughter, got off fine, but that justice was served? You mean the justice system concluded itself or justice was properly served, according to your frame?

 

[Azale]

Wait, I think I misunderstood you. You think that Zimmerman was mostly in the right, that Zimmerman had no reason to approach, that he could (maybe should?) be guilty of manslaughter, got off fine, but that justice was served? You mean the justice system concluded itself or justice was properly served, according to your frame?

Disgustipated just chooses whatever stance looks edgy in a given topic.

 

[Disgustipated]

Wait, I think I misunderstood you. You think that Zimmerman was mostly in the right, that Zimmerman had no reason to approach, that he could (maybe should?) be guilty of manslaughter, got off fine, but that justice was served? You mean the justice system concluded itself or justice was properly served, according to your frame?

Justice was served in that he was arrested, put on a trial, and judged by a jury of his peers. They ruled not guilty. Case closed. I know my position looks contradictory. I believe he may be guilty of manslaughter, but there just wasn't enough evidence to prove it. So let it be.

Disgustipated just chooses whatever stance looks edgy in a given topic.

Damn, someone figured me out.

 

[AlpsStranger]

People usually kind of nod when you say "better 100 guilty go free," but when it's OJ Simpson, Casey Anthony, or George Zimmerman they suddenly waffle about it.

I firmly believe in it, and I hope I have the iron fortitude to stick to my principals if someone who kills one of my loved ones is ever set free. Reasonable doubt is a b!tch, but she's ours and we need her.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Let me lay out my cards here: I'm having a really hard time seeing the other side of this case. I can see the other side, legally, as it's been decided; I cannot see why people actually think GZ is completely innocent.

I have been thinking about this as well, I am pretty sure that after so many threads and digging in of positions, you get the 2 sides you could see coming from the start. GZ is innocent vs GZ killed TM because he's a racist.

I don't think any rational thought factors into it. My Team is the bestest ever and they only lost because of the referee. That kind of thinking.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I think GZ was probably a pretty big idiot, and has rent-a-cop syndrome. He might even have been somewhat racist, though that's not absolutely certain.

Honestly, I would've accepted the other verdict as well. I really thought it was going to go manslaughter, to be honest.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1: Do you think what happened between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was a tragedy? Absolutely.

2: Do you think GZ did anything wrong? Yes. He made a stupid judgment call, putting himself at risk and going against the advice of professionals. While not strictly illegal, that is wrong.

3: Do you think Trayvon did anything wrong? Yes. Most of the testimony I've heard makes it sound quite likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman, and was on top of him punching him. If true, this is assault and battery, and the testimony makes it sound likely.

4: Do you think there has been a lot (not minor outliers) of racially tinged language used in defense of GZ? Used by whom? The entire case was unnecessarily tinged by racism. The media, for example, calls Zimmerman a "white hispanic" or some such. But you don't hear them call Obama a "white black" or people with only caucasian ancestry "white white" (though that sounds amusing). Prosecution has suggested that Zimmerman was racially motivated, although that's questionable.

5: Why do you think people are disappointed by the verdict? A number of reasons. Many parts of the world don't believe in the right to own guns this way. A lot of people believe that Zimmerman's poor choice should be punished regardless of the law. Some people think he lied and that he really did commit murder. Some people are racially motivated in either direction. Some believe that taking a life before one's own is destroyed because you have cause to believe it will be is not enough of a defense. Some of them acknowledge the evidence but simply believe the law itself is stupid and should be changed. People have different reasons for being disappointed, some of them more valid than others.

 

[emzie]

4: Do you think there has been a lot (not minor outliers) of racially tinged language used in defense of GZ? Used by whom?

Observers. Places like these forums, talking heads in the various cable news channels.

Zimmerman's brother springs to mind too.

 

[AlpsStranger]

How about all of the #KillGeorgeZimmerman tweets where they were saying "kill that wetback" and such?

 

[emzie]

How about all of the #KillGeorgeZimmerman tweets where they were saying "kill that wetback" and such?

What about them? Do I really need to denounce all the outrageous insane stuff in the world to make a point about the more subtle stuff?

It's of course way worse a thing to say and I hope anyone who tweeted that kind of stuff is investigated. I think that no one (sensible) is that questioning such statements are beyond the pale. The problem is that sensible people aren't questioning the less violent, less direct, still insidious statements out there.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Nah, I don't hope they are investigated at all. I guess that's just my personal hangup, but if some people want to blow off steam on Twitter let them. Idle threats, IMO.

There was some nutter on DailyKos talking about the "final solution" to the white problem the other day. I wouldn't bother to investigate him either, honestly. I think the smartphone/Facebook era has let too much naivete onto the interwebs. When I got death threats online back in 2001 I didn't care. Who hasn't gotten a death threat over the internet, anyhow?

Of course that's before everyone started eating paint chips and decided it was a good idea to absolutely always have their address be trivially available online, so

If there is a black guy out there who is destined to riddle Zimmerman with bullets he's going to be smart enough not to tweet about it first.

 

[MobBoss]

And Trayvon Martin's death was justified how?

He attacked and was beating Zimmerman to a pulp. Z acted in self defense. Killing in self-defense is justified in our country.

Or would you rather be charged for murder if you killed someone that was beating you to death?

Are we letting race color the fact that a person died?

I think there are some that indeed want to make this about race; however, even the FBI report indicates that racism was not a factor in this at all.

 

[Ajidica]

He attacked and was beating Zimmerman to a pulp. Z acted in self defense. Killing in self-defense is justified in our country.

For the record, we still don't know what the timeline for events actually is. Who attacked first is still completely unknown. (I should hardly think I need point out that Zimmerman isn't what one would call a reliable observer.) All we do know is that somehow a fight broke out, Zimmerman was injured, and at some point Zimmerman shot Martin.

 

[JollyRoger]

Plus, Zimmerman wasn't exactly beaten to a pulp.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Plus, Zimmerman wasn't exactly beaten to a pulp.

He was, however, attacked and the evidence does point to Martin being on top of him at the time the shot was fired.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Well, if there's a silver lining to our coming Google Glass dystopia it will be situations like this.