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Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Civrules, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Being in another civs favourite civic gives a diplo bonus. So if you change to say OR, and your neighbor is in OR AND has OR as fav civic then you get the bonus, even if you get no other benefit.
    If you change to OR you can build missionaries as soon as a religion spreads to a city, and so spread the religion to your other cities without having to build a monastery first.
     
  2. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @NightOnEarth
    Organized religion allows you to build missionaries. You don't have to be in any specific religion to do so.
    If you have Hindu in city 1,2. Buddhism in city 3 and no religion in city4, you can then build hindu missionaries in city1+2 and buddhist missionaries in city 3.
    In that case, you likely want to build two hindu missionaries to make sure you have hindu in all 4 cities, before doing the swap to Hindu at some opportune moment.
     
    vorlon_mi and NightOnEarth like this.
  3. Ita Bear

    Ita Bear Chieftain

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    Hello folks,

    Could someone briefly explain how 'first strikes' work for units and how they affect the battle odds? I've done some reading but I find it a little confusing. The game refers to "first strike chances," which, I assume, would imply that it is possible not to have any first strikes. If a unit has three first strikes, how would its battle odds compare to a similar unit without three first strikes, and how is it calculated?

    Kind regards,
    Ita Bear
     
  4. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    Units with First Strike will not take damage when they lose a round of combat for a number of rounds equal to their number of First Strikes (First Strike chances are just that - a chance to get a First Strike or not) minus the number of First Strikes the enemy unit gets. In terms of battle odds First Strike favors stronger units - the greater the odds of dealing good damage in their free round, the greater their odds of winning a fight (and/or taking less damage in the process) increases. First Strike by itself doesn't make much of a difference, not compared to other promotions you could take instead, but if you get a unit with a ton of First Strikes on it (read: Zara's UU) it can cause some wild swings in terms of combat effectiveness.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Sitting bull longbows/xbows spring to mind!
    There they are very good, since the city garisson and city defense by itself make the unit very strong.
     
  6. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    Note that switching into free religion automatically means you don't have a state religion. (I think that it will remember what state religion you had before going into FR (if any) when you switch out of FR.).
     
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  7. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    Yes, something worth remembering if a zealot scared you into Free Religion and they ask you to swap to Theocracy - one step forwards, one step back.
     
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  8. NightOnEarth

    NightOnEarth Chieftain

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    I just finished my first BOTM only to realize, how much I don't know about game mechanics. I'm glad that I have the opportunity to ask my questions here and get feedback from you experts. Okay, here we go!

    How does an airship select its target? I've got the impression that e.g. gunpowder units are selected over mounted units.
    What decides if I can station my airship in a foreign city?
    Do you make (excessive) use of airships in your games?

    Sometimes I can "see" foreign cities which share my state religion, even if I don't have enoght espionage points for this. What makes this possible?
    How are the espionage points determined, that are necessary for seeing the demographics of another civ, the research, ...?
    How does the counter espionage mission work? Is it just doubling the points for foreign spy missions? I got the impression that the probability of success is diminished, too.
    Does a Security Bureau just help in that city to thwart rival spies or overall in my empire?

    How can I get a peace treaty (10t)? Sometimes no action from me is necessary for this. It appears to me that there are several possiblities to get a peace treaty. OTOH trading with another civ doesn't automatically lead to a peace treaty.
     
  9. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    I imagine it targets units with the highest :strength: first, if it doesn't choose randomly.

    Having any military units in foreign territory requires Open Borders, and airship units have an additional limit that only so many can be positioned in any given city. I believe that limit is normally 1, with an Airport adding +3. Forts can also hold airships, and since they can't build airports they might natively have a limit of 4.

    I trust the above two (attempts at) answers proves that, no, my preferred meatgrinder involves Cossacks.

    Not sure. Religion can give you discounts on spy missions, but I didn't think(/know) that they influenced the passive espionage effects as well.

    You can produce some number of :espionage: per turn from a number of different sources, including the :espionage: slider you start the game with, and choose to invest these points into any given amount of rival civs (mind you that spreading your resources thin generally accomplishes nothing, so you should generally limit your spying to one civ exclusively)

    Increases costs of espionage missions against the player by 100% (doubles the cost), increases odds of AI Spies in player lands being caught, and lowers odds of AI Spy Missions in player lands being successful, to quote the spy guide.

    Just that city, one SB won't protect your entire empire.

    You have to successfully beg/demand something from an AI, or have something successfully begged/demanded from you (the ten turn peace treaty goes both ways and affects both parties in either case). I believe only gold, maps, techs and/or resources count for getting a ten turn peace treaty. Civic changes, war declarations and state religion changes will not.
     
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  10. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    Yes, highest :strength: after modified for defensive bonuses.

    OB required to station air units in foreign city. Note that the limit is normally 4, airport doubling that. Per player (so even if the civ you have an OB with has 4 airships stationed in a city, you can still station 4 of yours there.) Note that if the civ you station your air units in has an OB with the civ you're at war with, their units will not defend your air units, so in such a situation, you may want to keep a land unit in the foreign city as well to protect the air units.

    If your game lasts until Physics, I don't think you can really overuse airships. But since there are basing limits, I tend to only produce enough to have four airships per invading stack.

    Having control of the shrine will give discounts towards the passive espionage effects.

    Also, the AP and UN can force a peace treaty.
     
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  11. NightOnEarth

    NightOnEarth Chieftain

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    Thank you, AcaMetis and Lennier, for your answers. They are much appreciated. This complete guide to espionage is unbelievable excellent. Isn't Kaitzilla the guy who also wrote and compiled the gem "Know your Enemy"?

    On the sheet with my notes there are still questions left that I'd like to forward.

    With railroad, even 2 MP units cannot advance further than 10 tiles in one turn, correct?
    What does "outdated" mean? E.g. it seems that the yield of furs is still unchanged, but you don't get the happiness bonus any longer. Monasteries can still build missinaries, but what is lost by "scientific method"? Cultural bonus?
    What do I get diplo-wise, when I gift a city to another civ?
    The calculation of the points for the global ranking: is it the same for the other civs as for my empire? How does it work?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  12. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    Moving from one Railroad onto another Railroad only costs 0.1:move:, and units can move until they are reduced to 0:move: or less (there's no penalty for going into negative movement point remaining, the game just counts it as 0). Units with 2:move: base can, thus, move 20 tiles if they stay on railroads.

    Note that Railroads, like roads, negate movement penalties from terrain (forests, hills, etc.) and to get to Railroads you need Construction, so the penalty for moving across rivers is likewise negated. There's a reason why post-railroad warfare is treated differently than pre-railroad warfare - the increase in enemy supply lines is immense.

    An obsoleted resource effectively is no longer a resource, just a strange tile improvement. Buildings that are obsoleted have no effect other than producing :culture:, with some exceptions. Monasteries still allowing for Missionaries is one, but monasteries do lose their :science:, AP and :religion: building-related Wonder bonuses (if any).

    +1.5 diplo per liberated city (which gets truncated - 1 city is +1 diplo, 2 cities is +3 diplo, 3 cities is +4, etc.), and a good amount of Fair Trade diplo points regardless (since you gifted something valuable for nothing in return). You can also position gifted cities carefully to cause border tensions between AIs, among a few other clever tricks.

    I don't know how score is calculated exactly, but no civ has a special bonus (or penalty) in terms of score. If you're talking about the demographics it's likewise calculated the same for everyone, but note that some early UUs count as more Soldiers than regular units, which can clue you in on whether either Hammurabi (Bowman) or Mansa Musa (Skirmishers) is in the game on T0.
     
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  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    NoE - I'd add a note that not all gifted cities are consider "liberated". It should have (liberate) next to the city name in the diplo dialogue. If it does you get a permanent bonus as Acametis described. If not, I think you just get a trade bonus.

    Score is calculated based on Land, Pop, Tech and Wonders. Land and Pop is weighted heavily on score.
     
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  14. civac

    civac Warlord

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    This is false. All units with the exception of helicopters move 10 tiles over railroads. Helicopters can move 12 turns over railroads.
     
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  15. AcaMetis

    AcaMetis Emperor

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    Tested that ingame, and you are indeed correct. I got confused because the ingame information is misleading and outright wrong. Under Game Concepts -> Movement the Civilopedia says:
    For reference, the section on air units literally says "all spaces cost 1 MP for air units to enter", no mention of them benefiting from roads (which, indeed, makes no sense).
     
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  16. civac

    civac Warlord

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    Score calculation is the same for everyone. You get score for population, land area, technology and wonders (world wonders and national wonders, including the palace). Each of these categories has a point value associated with it representing the maximum available points (sort of).

    Poplation
    There are 5000 points available. On map start the game determines a maximum poulation value (the available food on the map divided by 2). The points per population are 5000 divided by this max population constant. Example: Assume there is 1600 available poulation. Points per poulatione is then 5000/1600 = 3,125. You get your score by multiplying the total pouplation you have with this number (3.125) and then rounding down. 9 total pop would give 28 points.

    Land
    There are 2000 points available. Each tile is worth 2000 divided by total land tiles. You get points for each land tile which has been in your territory continuously for at least 20 turns. Consequently, you need to hold a land tile for 20 turns to get points for it. if you lose a tile you lose the points for it immediatly. Example: There are 1400 land tiles on the map. You get 3 tiles via a culture expansion, 20 turns later you get 4 points, 2000*3/1400 points rounded down.

    Technology

    There are 2000 points available. Technolgies get scaled by their era, so ancient technology is worth 1 base point, a classical techology is worth 2 points and so forth. Summing up these scaled technology points comes to 334. A technology is worth (tech era)*2000/334 = 5,998.. . Examples: your starting techs are worth 11 points (5,988*2 rounded down). Most techs will give you 6 points*tech era. Rarely, will you get a point less when you hit the rounding.

    Wonders
    There are 1000 points available for 62 wonders (BTS). So most wonders are worth 16 points, sometimes 17 when you hit the rounding. Example: your point total at game start will include 16 points for your palace.

    You can view the land tile and population constants by mousing over your civilations flag on the bottom of the screen.
     
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  17. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Warlord

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    Yeah it’s interesting to see how cities change belonging for this purpose. Even if a civ founded a city, the culture pressure on it from bordering civs can effectively make it another civ’s for liberating.
     
  18. Set

    Set Prince

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    Under what conditions do capitulated vassals break away? After capping someone I often want to liberate some/all of the cities I captured but I don't because I worry it'll inspire them to break away. Obviously having more than 50% of your land/pop plays a role but I've had vassals with 57% of my land not break away. I've also had tiny two city vassals declare war in response to a demand.
     
  19. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Demanding stuff from vassals is really a different thing. I basically don't do that, but I think after a couple of demands they will revolt on you, no matter the size.

    Land/Pop, yes, and also power. But honestly, I'd not worry too much about it. Generally you should always be bigger and more powerful than your vassals (with maybe the exception of when I sometimes feed a vassal units). I often liberate some or all cities to a vassal. Sometimes I don't. Regardless, in 14 years playing this game I've never had a vassal break away from me. (I did have one vassal revolt on me after a demand ...once)

    I think if you cap someone via war they are far less likely of breaking away as opposed to say a peace vassal.

    I don't know the specific details of these mechanics. Mostly observation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
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  20. Orion Pax

    Orion Pax Warlord

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    Related question on vassals & new capitulations:

    Do your vassals’ conquests against another civ compete with your conquests in trying to capitulate that civ? Do they count as your own? Or is it null?
     

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