Racialism alive and well - In California!

[The Last Conformist]

A common way this happens when there are items assessing knowledge (such as general knowledge or vocabulary) that are less likely to have been encountered by members of some racial or social groups compared to others.

As my previous posts in this thread should have made clear, I'm aware of ways of biasing this kind of tests. I was asking for the particular method chosen here.

 

[Mrogreturns]

As my previous posts in this thread should have made clear, I'm aware of ways of biasing this kind of tests. I was asking for the particular method chosen here.

Yes I gathered from your previous posts that you felt it was a deliberate exercise to produce apparent racial differences in IQ. I was simply pointing out that the effect can be due to nothing more than applying the test to a member of a population for which it was not normed. There's nothing in the article to suggest that the test was intentially biased.

 

[nonconformist]

Sorry, somehow I posted in the wrong thread.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Yes I gathered from your previous posts that you felt it was a deliberate exercise to produce apparent racial differences in IQ.

I didn't mean to imply that. Only that it's possible the test was so rigged.

I was simply pointing out that the effect can be due to nothing more than applying the test to a member of a population for which it was not normed. There's nothing in the article to suggest that the test was intentially biased.

Duddha claims it is, however.

 

[CurtSibling]

This wouldn't be a problem if stupid people didn't try to say that an IQ test was biased against black people. It's a test! Like we printed it on some kind of paper that goes "Negro detected! Releasing low score-inducing chemicals!"

I would hope you are not aiming the stupid assumption against me, old friend?


For my point is that this test criteria should be changed, as people are going to see a negative there...

Calling them stupid is a bit off...
This is tardiness by the officials, not the people who fund them.

PS
If we look at the USA's past history of only 20-30 years ago,
can you really deny that racism was officially institutionalised?

Can you?

 

[philippe]

i scored very high.But i was surprised by questions like (how comes iron rusts?) i knew the answer and i said it but what has it to do with problem solving

 

[Joey_Ramone]

More than racialism this is an example of oversensitivity.

I've taken IQ tests and I don't know how they could be racially biased. And don't tell me it's because white people designed the tests, because Asians born in Asia score higher on these tests (on average) than whites born in the US do. This is like saying that basketball is racially biased.

(Last time I took an online ICQ test, I was rather annoyed to see it contained questions on American literature. I could not help but feel that that part was measuring cultural background rather than intelligence.)

Online tests are meaningless. A real IQ test would never ask such a question.

 

[Joey_Ramone]

A common way this happens when there are items assessing knowledge (such as general knowledge or vocabulary) that are less likely to have been encountered by members of some racial or social groups compared to others.

A good IQ test would never ask such a question. Asians who just came to this country and whose knowledge of American history and English is lacking tend to score higher than native born whites.

 

[amadeus]

I would hope you are not aiming the stupid assumption against me, old friend?

No, not you.

Calling them stupid is a bit off...
This is tardiness by the officials, not the people who fund them.

The stupid people aren't all of the taxpayers, they're a fringe element with the aid of sue-crazy attorneys they get to represent them.

PS
If we look at the USA's past history of only 20-30 years ago,
can you really deny that racism was officially institutionalised?

Can you?

I'd say the (federally) institutionalized part would end at the ratification of the 14th Amendment, but that didn't stop everyone from (locally) levying their own racialist policies. I suppose you'd say it's like the jaywalking laws in smaller towns, they're on the books, but not heavily enforced.

 

[Mrogreturns]

I didn't mean to imply that. Only that it's possible the test was so rigged.
Duddha claims it is, however.

Ah- my bad, the dangers of posting without reading all previous posts....

A good IQ test would never ask such a question. Asians who just came to this country and whose knowledge of American history and English is lacking tend to score higher than native born whites.

Well that really depends on what you mean by a "good" intelligence test. The WAIS- probably the most widely respected and used intelligence test in the world, makes use of both vocabulary and general knowledge items. Any given test can only assess a person's standing with regard to a specific operational definition of intelligence, and as long as it does so with good validity and reliability the it's a good test- you just have to use it appropriately.

 

[Sanaz]

I think it's simple. If the test is valid, then use it for everyone. If it is not valid, then either use one that is valid, or don't use it for anyone. For a school district or court system to make a decision that a test is not valid for everyone, so we'll only test the group of people where it is valid, but still use it as entry criteria for specific programs, is absurd. It's just a case of people making bad decisions based on partial information. They need to find people who can both find all the relevant information, and then have the ability to make an informed decision based on the information. Anything else makes the American public school system look like a farce. Oh yeah, it is. (OK, not everywhere, but in most places).

 

[Jugulator]

Well I think it is stupid, whoever seen the application should have processed it. They should have used their initiative in that instance instead of just going along with the policy. Very good advertisement for a democratic nation….not. I’m sure it will change though after this, as it should.

How long will it take though? How many more children will miss out before this ridiculous policy is changed.

Regards,

Jugulator

 

[Lyonesse]

This has me scratching my head, seriously.

4 of my 5 kids are language delayed (1 is autistic, other 3 are just "delayed"). We have lived, and schooled in Washington state, California, North Carolina, and now Arizona. And in none of the school districts we were in did my children have to go through an "IQ test" in order to receive "special education". They simply evaluated their langauge skills and determined from that if "special education" was needed. So it seems REALLY wierd that this ONE child would need to take an "IQ test" in order to gain access to a "special education" program <sigh>

 

[cgannon64]

This isn't really racism (or racialism, in Curtspeak its just bizarre breaucratic mishaps and laziness gone horribly wrong.

Read the article: They denied the tests to blacks because the test was most likely racially biased, and way too many black kids were ending up in special classes. That was the initial racism, the fact that they banned it was just breaucratic laziness.

IQ tests are stupid anyway.

 

[CurtSibling]

So, Gannon - IQ tests are stupid?

I take it you scored low on one then?

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

IQ test do not directly mearsure "intelligence", in several of the ways it is defined. They directly measure performance relative to your age group. Performance relative to your age group IS the main criterion for access to publicly funded redmedial or advanced classes. Ergo, IQ tests (assumming they are halfway properly designed) are the exactly correct tool for determining access to publicly funded remedial or advanced classes. California has it exactly wrong.
One of the main problems is money. A useful IQ test is not a one day paper multiple choice test like the SAT. A real one is a 3 to four day acadmemic, medical, and psychollogical exam, including some pricy doctors. It is only about 1/3 SAT like tests. It include neurological testing and various narrow test to evaluate specific learning and performance pathways.

 

[MarineCorps]

So, Gannon - IQ tests are stupid?

I take it you scored low on one then?

Now thats just low Curt.

 

[CurtSibling]

Now, I was not implying that Mr Gannon is in anyway not intellectual.
He has proven (many times) that he is a bright poster.



I was under the impression that IQ tests measured the problem-solving 'speed' of the brain...

Not wisdom.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I cannot avoid the impression that various tests touted as "IQ" ones measure rather different things.

 

[IceBeast]

I have to say as a native californian, that racism is still heavily prevalent in the state, contrary to popular belief. The thing is that most of the time you hear about what goes on in the larger cities (being SD, SF, LA and Sac Town). What you dont hear about is the other 5- 10 million people that dont live near these massive population centers. If you look at a hate group map (which I cant seem to locate at this time). You'll notice a large number of these groups in the south east of the state, or in the far north parts of the state as well. I was surprised when I learned there were soo many of these groups in the state, but they're there. No place is free of Racism.