Racism

[Hehehe]

The implication there is that racism is civilized. That's exactly the pandering that I was opposing.

The only "pandering" I'm advocating is civilized discussion. You can disagree about the civility of the topic itself, but can we at least keep the conversation civil and respectful?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Nazis were pretty civilized. Inconvinient truth.

Judging about civilized status based on ideologies is racist, imo.

 

[Hehehe]

Nazis were pretty civilized. Inconvinient truth.

I think we can all disagree on that

A civilized society or country has a well developed system of government, culture, and way of life and that treats the people who live there fairly

 

[zxcvbob]

Racism is just one form of tribalism. We all like people who are just like us and distrust people who are different, and skin color is an easy (lazy) way to categorize people into groups. If you look for it, you'll see the same thing with regard to political parties, generations, economic classes, etc.

Institutional overt racism ("Colored" water fountains, "Irish need not apply", etc) is pretty much gone; we've grown past that. Individual racism has been declining for years, although it seems to have been invigorated somehow by Trump. Everybody probably has some latent racism; the one I have to watch out for is low expectations.

 

[brennan]

Such as?

What is discriminatory about an even playing field?

 

[Senethro]

What is discriminatory about an even playing field?

Within societies - Inherited wealth

Between societies - Historical extraction of resources, labour and value through colonisation, invested in infrastructure

 

[red_elk]

My impression is that while the problem of unequal opportunities for blacks does exist in America, it's not merely an outcome of racism, but in large part a consequence of income inequality. It's not just black people being discriminated against, but poor people in general. Obviously the fact that black people tend to be poorer than whites is a consequence of past racist policies, but racist policies are much less of an issue now. I think a good idea to reduce racial discrimination is to combat income inequality - and to estimate effectiveness of these measures, I would analyze the situation with racism in other countries with different background and lower income inequality, such as Canada.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The only "pandering" I'm advocating is civilized discussion. You can disagree about the civility of the topic itself, but can we at least keep the conversation civil and respectful?

Let's use an example reducto absurdum, even though I contend we were already there.

If I say I should be allowed to rip the heads off of children on a whim, just because I am 'in the mood,' there is no one who would suggest that discussing such behavior on the merits would have value. I would have revealed, pre-hoc, that I am beyond civil reasoning and that the only actually civilized response is containment and prevention.

So, no, I will not pretend respect for advocates of racism. I will counter them with as much of the savagery they deserve as rules and medium allow, and advocate that others do the same.

 

[Senethro]

My impression is that while the problem of unequal opportunities for blacks does exist in America, it's not merely an outcome of racism, but in large part a consequence of income inequality. It's not just black people being discriminated against, but poor people in general. Obviously the fact that black people tend to be poorer than whites is a consequence of past racist policies, but racist policies are much less of an issue now. I think a good idea to reduce racial discrimination is to combat income inequality - and to estimate effectiveness of these measures, I would analyze the situation with racism in other countries, such as Canada.

Its one and the same problem. America lacks lack comprehensive, universal public services due to racism making it impossible to implement them.

You won't get them until white america stops getting mad at the "wrong" people benefitting from them.

 

[brennan]

Within societies - Inherited wealth

Between societies - Historical extraction of resources, labour and value through colonisation, invested in infrastructure

You think both of those things are representative of an 'even playing field'?

 

[Hehehe]

If I say I should be allowed to rip the heads off of children on a whim, just because I am 'in the mood,' there is no one who would suggest that discussing such behavior on the merits would have value. .

If you wanna argue that, I'll gladly argue against you

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What is discriminatory about an even playing field?

I dunno...maybe if we take a few generations and create one we'll be able to examine it and find out.

By the way, was the statement that in the US there are inequities that have been developed through generations of discriminatory practices too subtle for you, or do you genuinely believe that such inequalities are a normal part of "even playing fields"?

 

[zxcvbob]

Let's use an example reducto absurdum, even though I contend we were already there.

If I say I should be allowed to rip the heads off of children on a whim, just because I am 'in the mood,' there is no one who would suggest that discussing such behavior on the merits would have value. I would have revealed, pre-hoc, that I am beyond civil reasoning and that the only actually civilized response is containment and prevention.

So, no, I will not pretend respect for advocates of racism. I will counter them with as much of the savagery they deserve as rules and medium allow, and advocate that others do the same.

Wait, what? Are we talking about abortion now? I'm having trouble keeping up with the topic drifts...

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Wait, what? Are we talking about abortion now? I'm having trouble keeping up with the topic drifts...

No, I just had to use children rather than racists in my example reducto absurdim because there are plenty of people about who wouldn't consider ripping racists' heads off to be uncivilized and I wanted to avoid confusion.

 

[brennan]

By the way, was the statement that in the US there are inequities that have been developed through generations of discriminatory practices too subtle for you, or do you genuinely believe that such inequalities are a normal part of "even playing fields"?

I admire the way you can strawman someone with your words.

 

[Hehehe]

By the way, was the statement that in the US there are inequities that have been developed through generations of discriminatory practices too subtle for you, or do you genuinely believe that such inequalities are a normal part of "even playing fields"?

So how long do you think that these " inequities that have been developed through generations of discriminatory practices" would last? Jews who escaped Nazi Germany fled with nothing but the clothes on their back, and it only took them something like 4 years to surpass the average American in wealth? Certainly, they've been able to more than close any wealth gaps in a few generations

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I admire the way you can strawman someone with your words.

"Even playing fields" is your words. I'm merely asking why you ignored the previously established facts when you pretended such a thing exists.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So how long do you think that these " inequities that have been developed through generations of discriminatory practices" would last? Jews who escaped Nazi Germany fled with nothing but the clothes on their back, and it only took them something like 4 years to surpass the average American in wealth? Certainly, they've been able to more than close any wealth gaps in a few generations

We've already established that I have no interest in pandering to you. Open support of racism is uncivilized, and merits nothing but savagery in response. Feel free to butt out of the conversation I'm having with Brennan.

 

[red_elk]

Its one and the same problem. America lacks lack comprehensive, universal public services due to racism making it impossible to implement them.

You won't get them until white america stops getting mad at the "wrong" people benefitting from them.

So, basically "even playing field" does not exist now, while people are arguing whether it would be sufficient to end discrimination.
At least start with it.

 

[Hehehe]

We've already established that I have no interest in pandering to you. Open support of racism is uncivilized, and merits nothing but savagery in response. Feel free to butt out of the conversation I'm having with Brennan.

You're ducking out because we both know that you wouldn't do very well in such a conversation