Rand and Marx

[GoodSarmatian]

So regardless of the validity of his ideas, Marx's work contributed in no small way to the development of economics, political science, helped birth sociology, produced significant works in German philosophical tradition, and inspired most of the 20th century's far-left movements. In intellectual and political terms, Marx is up there with the biggest names there are, and it's a shame he's being compared to a hack like Rand.

That may be true, but if you say anything remotely positive about Marx and his work it makes you a communist, and since communists are ideological loos your opinion on Marx doesn't xount.

 

[Leoreth]

Except Marx was wrong.

So was Rand, and even more so, often in a hilariously inconsistent manner.

By the way, don't you think it's funny that the Nazis tried to paint Communism as evil because it's in with the Zionist world conspiracy and now Marx is painted as evil because he hates Jews?

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

Well, considering the popularity of socialist parties in the world, you could easily claim that Marx was much more successful then Jesus in winning followers.

You could claim it, but you'd be factually wrong, even in mainland China and the former USSR.

I don't think Marx has had an entire video game devoted to his thought.

Advantage: Rand.

Hmm. Not sure you want to go down that road on this particular forum.

Who is recognized by the infallible Mr Meier as the creator of a technology that enables leaders to eliminate most corruption and greatly increase their output of food and goods?

Game: Marx.

 

[holy king]

Except Marx was wrong.

concerning what?

materialism? historical materialism? dialectics? class theory?
his critic of political economics?

all of the above?


i think even if you are a spiritualist who denies the existance of social classes and thinks every single word of das kapital is bullcrap, you can hardly deny dialectics to be a useful tool for social studies even today.






ayn rand, on the other hand, wrote an obscure novel with a cult following over in america.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Rand was a psychopath, doting on another psychopath.

I don't think there was anything psychopathic about Rand's philosophy. She just extolled egotism as a virtue by calling it egoism. Many, if not most, people are self-centered. But it is also usually perceived as a vice.

ayn rand, on the other hand, wrote an obscure novel with a cult following over in america.

To be fair, her books weren't that obscure.

Atlas Shrugged was on the NY Times bestseller list for 21 weeks when it first came out. And in 2009, it became the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com "Fiction and Literature" category and #15 in overall sales. While many disagree with its basic economic and ethical tenets regarding what is essentially selfishness, it also helped usher in the sexual revolution.

And more than 6.5 million copies of The Fountainhead have been sold worldwide.

 

[holy king]

selling well in a single country is rather obscure, if you ask me.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That is simply not true. Atlas Shrugged in particular is an international bestseller.

While most people object to glorifying what is essentially egotism, it was also stridently opposed to corporatism, political corruption, and government subsidies of business. And as I alreadly mentioned, it portrayed recreational sex in a very positive light which was revolutionary in the mid-50s. I think everybody should read it just to see what the fuss is all about. Then you will no longer have to wonder who is John Galt, and why some care so much.

 

[holy king]

it is? the second nation being england, i suppose?

 

[luiz]

If it wasn't for CFC I would not have known of Rand.

Marx, OTOH, I've bee (unfortunately) familiar with since I was 7. There's no contest, really. But the OP already knew that, didn't he?

 

[Quackers]

I think it is a bit of an odd comparison to make.
Marx's philosphy had an enormous impact on the 20th century, Rand wrote a few books.

It's like comparing Lionel Messi to an obscure league 2 player.

 

[Formaldehyde]

it is? the second nation being england, i suppose?

It has been translated into nearly every major language. There is nothing obscure about Ayn Rand's writings, although she is obviously not as well-known as Marx is.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I am downloading Atlas Shrugged Part I for teh lulz.

 

[holy king]

If it wasn't for CFC I would not have known of Rand.

Marx, OTOH, I've bee (unfortunately) familiar with since I was 7. There's no contest, really. But the OP already knew that, didn't he?

It has been translated into nearly every major language. There is nothing obscure about Ayn Rand's writings, although she is obviously not as well-known as Marx is.

the german and spanish translations didnt have all that much of an impact, it seems.

look, an american novel being translated to spanish, french, german and russian doesnt make it well known wordwide.
those four, unlike english, are languages into which every insignificant fart is translated, expecially if that fart is originally english.
the worst of the worst american science fiction story gets translated to german. it then proceeds to sell approximately as well as the german version of atlas shrugged.

 

[Camikaze]

I've never heard Rand's name in connection to International Relations. Marx's influence, on the other hand, is fairly important in the field, even though he didn't actually write about it. And that influence is actually pretty useful and increasingly mainstream when looking at the international system. It certainly isn't just dismissed anymore.

(For the record, I'd also never heard of Rand until CFC, and still haven't heard of her outside of it)

 

[holy king]

Ayn Rand: Atlas wirft die Welt ab. Goldmann, München 1989. ISBN 3-442-06826-6
Ayn Rand: Wer ist John Galt? GEWIS, Hamburg 1997. ISBN 3-932564-03-0

those are the two german editions, btw.
i like how one is called "atlas throws the world away", while the other is translated with "who is john galt?".
both editions are not available anymore.

somebody's trying to sell the second one used for 666 euros over amazon.de though.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

concerning what?

materialism? historical materialism? dialectics? class theory?
his critic of political economics?

all of the above?


i think even if you are a spiritualist who denies the existance of social classes and thinks every single word of das kapital is bullcrap, you can hardly deny dialectics to be a useful tool for social studies even today.

If we take the materialism out of dialectical materialism, doesn't the credit go to Hegel rather than Marx?






ayn rand, on the other hand, wrote an obscure novel with a cult following over in america.[/QUOTE]

 

[holy king]

If we take the materialism out of dialectical materialism, doesn't the credit go to Hegel rather than Marx?

well he furthered it. but actually, yes. feuerbach as well.

 

[aelf]

In my opinion, Marx tried to articulate a universal Subject as a kind of humanistic teleological endpoint for his materialist brand of Hegelianism. Rand tried to articulate a vision of the individual Subject as the master of a materialistic destiny and thus give free rein to human greed. From a moral perspective, there's no contest either.

 

[luiz]

the german and spanish translations didnt have all that much of an impact, it seems.

look, an american novel being translated to spanish, french, german and russian doesnt make it well known wordwide.
those four, unlike english, are languages into which every insignificant fart is translated, expecially if that fart is originally english.
the worst of the worst american science fiction story gets translated to german. it then proceeds to sell approximately as well as the german version of atlas shrugged.

I agree entirely with your point, but for the record, my mother tongue is Portuguese

 

[holy king]

oops.