Random SG 01 - The Randomness Begins

[EricTheGreat12]

Alright sorry for the delay guys, science reports can be long and a real pain in the a **

Anyways, here's my playthrough:

Turn 140-Bouddica denounces Attila. We lose our alliance with Cape Town.
Turn 141-Catapult in Utique gets promotion. I decide to give him the Rough Terrain bonus since it's located in rough terrain Will leave him in city, put him on Alert status and bringing the elephant northwards.

(The reason why I am doing this is because I believe ranged units should always be behind the melee; if our enemy does decide to attack, our ranged units wouldn't be able to absorb the assault, while our melee units would have an easier job fighting back+the fact that it provides a 2nd ranged attack towards the city) aka I left the Composite Bowman near the mountain, in case that unit is up for discussion

I'm unsure on what to do with the Scout Bring our ship back towards the South (Ps: can someone remind me why our ship has taken damage ?). Utique has started production on workshop. Payed CapeTown 250 so we can get the happiness back
Turn 142-Attila declares war on Darius and Suleiman declares war on Boudicca
Turn 143-Nothing happens
Turn 144-Attila has wiped Boudicca off the face of the map, so our current agreement with her has been abolished.Worker near Gades has begun work on a farm and Carthage begins work on Workshop.
Turn 145-Compass has been researched; we are now starting Guilds so we can go on towards Machinery. Hippo Regis begins work on Workshop
Turn 146- We have received our very first spy, but I decide to not do anything with him so we can discuss about it
Turn 147-Nothing happens
Turn 148-Workshop in Utique is done. I started production on the mint so we can get more money, although I do admit that this decision is pretty controversial. We have started research on Machinery
Turn 149-Gades is done working on colosseum. Is now working towards workshop
Turn 150-We seem to be the most fell fed empire with 7.25 food Turks declare war on Ethiopia

Closing statements:

I noticed Attila's army moving North at some point. While I think that this is a clear indication that he is moving towards Persia/Ethiopia, I think that the next play through should be to get Darius' capital as soon as possible because it's pretty clear that we are in a race against Attila. If Attila gets the city before we do, we will be in a very bad situation .Also, if we do go for 'the kill', we need to make sure that we get rid of his settler nearby, or else we'll be surrounded by 2 cities.

We need to start thinking of wonders. I get that we're very busy on everything else, but we need to start getting bonuses before the AI does. It's ok if we set priorities, but some like Statue of Zeus would be important for the Combat Strength

 

[Menelann]

Nice played
Good economy and production is always useful.

Grab a settler right when the war starts is good, true, we can use an archer from 3 (or 4?) city.

About wonders, is there something that we want in the range? We are the second civ in tech so we should be able to grab what we want, but still we want to research needed tech in advance.

I'll look at a save later today, so just few questions and suggestion now.

1. War. I agree that we should grab Persepolis as soon as possible. Actually don't think Atilla will capture it (on my experience AI's don't like overseas wars) but tourism may be important whatever VT we choose.
I suggest to build few composites right now, upgrade them, build couple more crossbows and start the war. I believe I could get us ready to launch an attack.

We can wait for frigs though.
If not, do we use our navy against Persepolis or they'll be on our side of the continent?

2. Social policy, in couple of turns I suppose. I suggest +3 production in coastal cities. Your thoughts?

3. Tech. What do we do after machinery? Astronomy for observatory and exploration looks reasonable.

4. We should decide on victory condition soon to chose tech path and everything.
Culture or domination sound funny. Don't think it worth to try Diplomatic with Sweden.

P. S. I'll make my (right?) move in few days so no need to rush your thoughts.

 

[Menelann]

Having looked at Persepolis with 17 pop and 38 defense and I am not feeling like atacking it just with a banch of crossbows (str 13, ranged str 18) and catatapults.
Should we research physics then? I like frigates more, but It's not me who will do the war so if you feel good I can produce bunch of crossbows and pikemen's for us.

Also we're sixth in army, Haile Salassie is last, so his army is bigger then ours right now.

I think if we want to use crossbows we should attack soon because they are not so effective against musketmans.

Do we put spy in Persepolis to know what he is up to? It's also the largest city, though I'm not sure if there anything to steal there.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

The line up:

Bugs <= on deck
Polus <= Traveling. Skipped until return.
Teproc
Gurra
Eric <= just played
Menelann <= UP

 

[Sir Bugsy]

About wonders, is there something that we want in the range?

I don't think we should chase a wonder just yet. Let's keep the focus on economy and military.

1. War. I agree that we should grab Persepolis as soon as possible. Actually don't think Atilla will capture it (on my experience AI's don't like overseas wars) but tourism may be important whatever VT we choose.

Boudicca was "overseas" as far as Attila was concerned. Boudicca has been "wiped off the map". I would respectfully suggest that your logic in this matter is slightly flawed. It is not a matter of if but rather when Attila attacks.

We can wait for frigs though.
If not, do we use our navy against Persepolis or they'll be on our side of the continent?

No we can't. We need naval ranged units now.

One thing we might want to consider is helping keep Ethiopia and Persia alive. If we get open boarders with them we can place our units between the Hun and the city, thereby giving the city more of a chance of survival.

 

[Gurra09]

I don't think it was Attila who took out Boudicca though? Both Edinburgh and Dublin were in Swedish hands during my last turn set, so I think it was Gustavus (Boudicca's neighbor) who took her out.

 

[Teproc]

Yeah Gustavus took Boudicca out, not Attila. Well I haven't checked the save but Gustavus was certainly the one who took her capital (that was during my last set).

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I don't think it was Attila who took out Boudicca though? Both Edinburgh and Dublin were in Swedish hands during my last turn set, so I think it was Gustavus (Boudicca's neighbor) who took her out.

Great, we have two 800-lb gorillas.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

[/QUOTE]One thing we might want to consider is helping keep Ethiopia and Persia alive. If we get open boarders with them we can place our units between the Hun and the city, thereby giving the city more of a chance of survival.[/QUOTE]

No, what we need is to win the race to victory. If we 'help' Ethiopia and Persia, we're just delaying the inevitable from happening.If we rush now there's a very good chance that we can sweep through Persia (and ethiopia if we feel like it). The warmongerer penalty doesn't matter; we are still going to get it no matter what. Attila and Carthage(aka us) are in a race to defeat Persia, and if we use your strategy, the situation is only going to last longer.

To sum it all up, we need to bliztgrieg ourselves into Persian territory before Attila, or any other AI for that matter, does.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

That is assuming we are going for domination. Don't get me wrong. Domination is my preferred victory condition. I love nothing better than a good military engagement and campaign. I suppose it is time for the team to weigh in.

So what will it be team? Domination, Diplomatic, Cultural, or Spaceship (I'm not even going to put a time victory on the table.)

I think we are in a strong position for any of these.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

That is assuming we are going for domination

I never said that we were going towards a domination path. When we get towards the middle of the game, then it will be clear which way we need to; conquering an enemy is just a stepping stone. But in the end, 1 less contender=more chances to win the game.

 

[Menelann]

Hm, we're still unsure on the victory condition, huh.
Though if we're about to start a war it's not so relevant b/c we need to research some military tech.

Ok, I've made a first turn. Move a spy in Persepolis to look around, and he has one tech that we don't, so why not.
Moved a unit a bit to see Persian army (How do we insert images?), a bunch of pikemens, and archers, crossbows should deal with it.

To sum it all up, we need to bliztgrieg ourselves into Persian territory before Attila, or any other AI for that matter, does.

Agree. Land wars are hard between Rifleman's and the flight, so if we miss this window we'll have to wait a long time.

I think I can produce one more pikemen (swordsman) and composite and start war as soon as Machinery is done (6-7 turns). And our trade route ends in 5 turns, so we don't lose it but hopefully we will pillage his trade route with us.
Though this army wouldn't be enough to take the city and it would be the other player (Sir Bugsy or Teproc) to get it^^. Should we research trebuchets? Then we could embark them and place them to the left of Persepolis after the main army is dead.

Also Chivalry or Metallurgy could be useful.

What's with Social policy, it's really close...

Great, we have two 800-lb gorillas.

Yeh, I want us to be the third one xD

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Here's where my knowledge of the mechanics of the game may fail me. Any lurkers that may have answers, please delurk and chime in.

If you are going for a science or diplo win, it is essentially a race to the end of the tech tech. For science you need either hammers or cash (with freedom ideology). For diplo you just need lots of cash.

So if we are going for either of those two, we want to keep civs around for research agreements, and research cost reductions.

If we are going domination, we want to be the top tech dog, and to hell with everyone else.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I use photo bucket for images. I post them up there and link in.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If we are going for war and city conquering, we need siege units. Cats are ok, trebs are preferred.

In personal games I beeline for dynamite and artillery. with 3 tile range, you sit back and blast everything in sight and take the zero hit point city with a fast mover.

 

[Menelann]

(part of) Persian army http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/Denis_Ovchinnikov/2015-02-12_00002_zpshqehvhcd.jpg

If we are going for war and city conquering, we need siege units. Cats are ok, trebs are preferred.

In personal games I beeline for dynamite and artillery. with 3 tile range, you sit back and blast everything in sight and take the zero hit point city with a fast mover.

Yeh, artillery is the best, but it's still far away in tech.

Let's start a vote on whether to start a war with Darius in 10 turns or not?
If it was a SP game, I would have waited for frigs or artillery but I am just bad in early game land wars. So in this situation I vote for war

Regarding VC I like Domination or Cultural in this settings. Science is always a way against AI's but I'm kinda bored with peaceful Science victories.

What's with Social policy, it's really close...

?

 

[Teproc]

I'm fine with any VC here, I think they're all open actually, we're in a good position.

I'd actually prefer Domination to the others, it's just more fun.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'm OK with going to war with Darius, but not in 10 turns. Here's what I think we need:

4 com bows/crossbows - to kill the initial attack wave and for siege work
2 galleass - ditto
3, preferably 4 cats/trebs - figure at least one, probably two will be killed by the city
2 swords/longswords - for final attack on the city
2 Q-boats - melee afloat units

When we have that, then we can declare war

 

[Menelann]

I'm OK with going to war with Darius, but not in 10 turns. Here's what I think we need:

4 com bows/crossbows - to kill the initial attack wave and for siege work
2 galleass - ditto
3, preferably 4 cats/trebs - figure at least one, probably two will be killed by the city
2 swords/longswords - for final attack on the city
2 Q-boats - melee afloat units

When we have that, then we can declare war

Don't you think that if we wait to build all this before wardec, it will be too late to proceed with this low tech units? We can't stack too big armies on this terrain. I figure out that 3 (+1 to cover dead) melee and 4 range units is all we may use efficiently.

Spoiler :

Here is suggested position for our army. Pink for melee (an elephant would be good among them due to the combat penalty for enemy units), blue for crossbows. This position suits very good for killing upcoming enemy units:
We have 3 melee and 4 range units against possible 3 melee and 1 range for Darius.
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/Denis_Ovchinnikov/2015-02-12_00002_zps2vbnwabl.jpg

Green is for trebuchets.

What I suggest is to kill the army with crossbows while researching trebuchets then quick-build them and attack the city. We have trebuchets in 11 turns+ turn to improve catapults + 4 to embark/disembark them, so in 16 turns 3 trebuchets could be in the range of the city.
Even if we start war in 7 turns (right after we get crossbows) I am not so sure we can kill all his army so soon.

We have some lack of melee units, that's true, but I'm sure I can fix it in 7 turns (2 more units should be fine until marching on the city).

***
The point of all this is to use units as soon as they are available. Each turn all units that we already have become more and more useless.
So I strongly suggest that if we want to start war in this era (i.e. before frigs/artillery) to start it as soon as possible.


Do we plan on moving the fleet towards Persepolis?
If not it won't be useful in this war and we can build it while the war is going on.


****About not-war stuff, please give some thoughts on it too****
Guys, say something about social policy^^

Continue with my first move, sold exceed truffles and wine to Sweden, 14 gpt.

Attila has astronomy, some of his embarked units are in the ocean. (Totally he has 2 techs that we don't have and we have 1 extra tech).

Our embarked and sleeping scout near Suleyman (to the North), does he have any purpose?

After caravan is done with trading with Darius, do I send extra food in the capital?

I think I would employ the second uni slot in the capital if no objection.

 

[Teproc]

We don't need all that. There's not even room for all that around Persepolis. 1 or 2 trebuchets and a bunch of Crossbows should be enough, along with a horse unit to swoop in and take the city.