Random SG 01 - The Randomness Begins

[Sir Bugsy]

We don't need all that. There's not even room for all that around Persepolis. 1 or 2 trebuchets and a bunch of Crossbows should be enough, along with a horse unit to swoop in and take the city.

That might work at lower difficulty levels, but you can plan on failing at immortal level. Figure you will lose one siege unit when you move them into range of the city. For each turn you don't take the city, you will probably lose another.

Our jumbos will fall to those pikes Darius has. If we have four comp bows, we will be able to take out one pike per turn. Remember very few of our units have promotions.

Now that Darius is at war, he either has shifted or will very soon shift over to full time war production. That means more units. Yes, he has archer now, but I would bet he will have crossbows soon.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Our embarked and sleeping scout near Suleyman (to the North), does he have any purpose?

Do not do this in an SG. Additionally, don't set up build queues or put units on go-to orders.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Guys, say something about social policy^^

I think I would employ the second uni slot in the capital if no objection.

If we are going to be doing some war mongering, we might want to consider the honor tree. I especially like the SP that gives a 15% fighting bonus when a unit is next to another unit. Most of the rest of that tree doesn't do a lot for us.

Since we're not in the renaissance yet, patronage is another good tree to go down. This especially powerful if we are going to be using city-states as allies.

Once we get to renaissance, I say we need to good all out for rationalism.


As for the scientist slot in the university, I say go for it as long as we still grow.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

The point of all this is to use units as soon as they are available. Each turn all units that we already have become more and more useless.
So I strongly suggest that if we want to start war in this era (i.e. before frigs/artillery) to start it as soon as possible.

That's what upgrades are for. The worst mistake we could make is to go to war with a weak army. Sun Tzu said, “Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”. We must have a strategy on how we are going to fight before the war declaration. I'll post up my idea later today. The screenshot Menelann posted doesn't use the terrain to our advantage.

Do we plan on moving the fleet towards Persepolis?

I like this idea.

After caravan is done with trading with Darius, do I send extra food in the capital?

I like this idea too.

 

[Menelann]

Now that Darius is at war, he either has shifted or will very soon shift over to full time war production. That means more units. Yes, he has archer now, but I would bet he will have crossbows soon.

Moved a spy in Persepolis, we will see what's going on in 4 (I think) turns.

That's what I am talking about, if we start the war before Darius has crossbows it would be an easy one, otherwise it would be painful (we would have the same units essentially). All our units are on the edge of being obsolete due to the tech. About the upgrading: 4 gatling guns instead of 4 crossbows doesn't sound very good. And we don't want to wait till artillery, do we?

Do we plan on moving the fleet towards Persepolis?
I like this idea.

It would be a long journey... Like 10-15 moves I think after fleet is constructed.
I can start on producing fleet before crossbows/swordsmans but don't you think that by this time galleas would be quite useless?
I myself like the idea of going with frigs. But again, then crossbows would be quite useless.

I'll post up my idea later today. The screenshot Menelann posted doesn't use the terrain to our advantage.

Ok, cool, I think I use it a bit: b/c of the hills Darius would be able to use only one range unit. But if you have something better it would be great

Once we get to renaissance, I say we need to good all out for rationalism.

Totally agree. But we have the next one in 2 turns which won't be the Renaissance yet, so let's vote?) Suggested variants are open Honor, open Patronage, get +3 production in coastal cities in Exploration.
I like the last one, it gives us like 20% production bonus empirewise and I like hidden sites.
Honor opening is quite useless for us. Though +15% str for melee units with the neighboring unit and +50% exp in combat would be useful if we're going for domination.
Patronage would be useful later on but for now we have one CS ally..

Also about research, if we're not going in war right away Astronomy sounds like a good idea due to the exploration (trade, we still have some extra resources, we're running out of happiness and no one else has any extra luxes) and observatory (50% science bonus in the capital). Also Caravel suits to grab Persepolis. Though I still like the idea of starting war in 10 turns.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

So many decisions. I had forgotten about Exploration. 20% production bump in all four of our cities is pretty good. That alone might be worth it.

So here is one idea. Don't know if it is any good. Let's put one city on building naval units. That city can shift around as needed. Let's keep at least two cities working on land units. The fourth city can be working on infrastructure.

I am not a huge fan of Gatling guns or machine guns either. I hate that one range limit.

I think we need to plan on going to war. Either a war with Darius that we start, or a war with Attila that he starts. One way or another I think we will be fighting at most 30 turns from now. More likely 20.

 

[Menelann]

Cool, I agree with the general direction.

Will start with my turn today or tomorrow, probably will stop in the middle to show you Persepolis but may be not, I'll see.

 

[Menelann]

So, first 5 turns:

Turn 150. Spy is moving to Persepolis. In the future if you get new spy send him somewhere, it's better than doing nothing, other can always move them if needed. Hunnish scout disembarked near our territory and fighting Persian lonely warrior, nice.
Produce forge in Carthage. Probably I should've started with military right away but this quick forge looked too good.

Turn 151. Cargo ship Utique- Addis Ababa has finished trading, relocate and send it Hippo Regius- Stockholm for the highest gpt (20.7) but Gustavus gains 16 from it P. S. We have extra trade route available. Internal trade route may be a good idea.

Turn 152. Grab +3 production in coastal cities. Losing grasp on Cape Town, since we're about to run out of happiness pay 250 gold. For the same reason produce coliseum in Utique, we'll be able to build Circus Maximus eventually. Mint in Utique is done, some extra gold. Sent quinquereme and scout (that was sleeping) there to meet other civs.

Upd. Edinburg has Buddhism from unmet civ so Gustavus hopefully has something to do instead of bothering us. Also I like Buddhism beliefs (a lot of Happiness), so I trade with Edinburg instead of Edinburg. We may think about what religion we actually prefer in a long run. Hopefully Carthage would follow our pantheon for some more time.

Turn 153. We're about to enter the golden age too. (507/510)
Due to the 0 happiness press avoid growth. I think I uncheck it once coliseum is done.

Turn 154. Spy has settled, Darius I is plotting against us.
Few pics. Persepolis looks nice, low production, high culture, perfect for us. AI do have some discount on hammers needed but it still looks not bad. Do you need save to see other buildings?

Spoiler :

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/Denis_Ovchinnikov/2015-02-13_00002_zpserhhnl6i.jpg
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/Denis_Ovchinnikov/2015-02-13_00001_zps1ilt7qwv.jpg

Workshop in Hippo Regulus is done, galleass is next.
Forge in Carthage is done, composite in 2 turns and will be ready to improve to crossbow. Building 3 tiles of the road to speed up transportation from Carthage to Utique by 2.5 turns.

Caravan with Darius is done, I am thinking about sending production to Utique, due to the lack of happiness. Also we may feed the capital and stop growing all other cities but I don't like it. Also we may feed the capital and build circus maximus later on or hope to find new civ's that have extra luxes. Your ideas?

M, Sweden has entered Renaissance too.

Among of all discussible things should we bring our warrior from 4 city or let him deal with Persian scout/warrior? Also we may change coliseum to army but then we won't grow for a long time. But it gives us golden age during the war start so it has some advantages too. Though I still don't like not to grow

Wait for your replies. Long weekend is ahead^^

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Here is how I would prosecute a war with Darius.

I would position my ranged units on the black dots

Then I would declare war. By narrowing Darius' land approach we can concentrate our fire and reduce the size of his forces.

If we had some naval ranged units, they sit just off the coast of Utique. Darius presently has eight units that we know about. We would want to wait until we kill at least half of them. before moving into phase two.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

As the number of units moving forward slows down, we start pivoting our ranged units as indicated:

Any units that appear get focused fire. The goal is to focus fire on a single unit until it is dead, then move on to the next unit.

The land between the sea and the mountains northwest of Persepolis is only two tiles wide. That is very easily held.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Finally we have to set up the siege. The goal here is to go in with overwhelming force and minimize the number of turns that our units are exposed to fire. If Darius has a composite bow or higher in the city, then we must plan on losing one unit per turn. He will concentrate fire on our siege units first, then ranged units, then melee units. The exception to that rule is if we have a severely wounded unit.

We want to move as many units as possible within 2 tile range of the city simultaneously. Green dots are our ranged units from the pivot. Red dots are melee units. As soon as the melee units move forward, you back fill with the siege units. Hopefully you can get four siege units ashore at once. Figure you will lose one siege unit for every turn they are within range of the city. Hold off attaching the city with the melee units until you can take the city in one turn.

 

[Teproc]

Seeing Darius' army, I think we should DOW as soon as we get Crossbows. Right now we have 4 potential crossbows and a catapult, that's not quite enough to actually take Persepolis, but might as well start working through those Pikemen right away. Build, like, two more Crossbows during thattime and you're set.

My only advice in terms of warfare is this : never lose a unit. It sounds dumb but that's really it, the only point where it's worth it to risk losing a unit is when you're actually pushing for a city, but otherwise just take your time and kill those Pikemen as they come. Don't forget the AI can't move and shoot.

PPE : Bugs, that seems fine though you'll need to be shooting at the city with more than 2 ranged units at a time if you want to minimize damage.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Caravan with Darius is done, I am thinking about sending production to Utique, due to the lack of happiness. Also we may feed the capital and stop growing all other cities but I don't like it. Also we may feed the capital and build circus maximus later on or hope to find new civ's that have extra luxes. Your ideas?

I like sending production to Utique.

Among of all discussible things should we bring our warrior from 4 city or let him deal with Persian scout/warrior?

Leave the unit in the rear to clean up the stray Persians.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Since my narrative isn't clear enough. The turn before the siege begins our units should be positioned like this:

Green dots = ranged units. Red dots = melee units. Black dots = siege units.

 

[Menelann]

Since my narrative isn't clear enough. The turn before the siege begins our units should be positioned like this:

Green dots = ranged units. Red dots = melee units. Black dots = siege units.

I think you're placing more than one unit at a tile from the down side... I'll screen tactical view later on.

I don't like putting siege next to the city, in this case city will probably bombard them plus it takes one more turn to place them there after disembarking. Though I have to look at tactical screen to be sure.

But yes, we have to deal with an army before, I will be preparing our army.

And yes, don't take the city earlier than 12 turns (like we can ), let's steal tech if he has any

I agree with your starting position, Bugsy, but consider moving into mine after few turns, it looks easier to shut down upcoming units due to the hills (units move in range without attacking).

Looks like we have a lot of discussion for the middle of the set, so I'll continue soon. The important thing is not to play over my set now xD

 

[Menelann]

Yeh, I was right about Persepolis positions, you put too many units in there.

That what I suggested, blue for trebuchets, the rest is the same, white circles may serve as additional slots for corresponding units.

The good thing is that we can fire right after disembarking trebs and they will be quite defended due to the hills and melee. Well, two of them, not the South one

Actually if we disembark melee unit to cover red white circle even the South treb should be fine. Probably we can fit one more sword/pike in our production.
Also I think we should produce one more elephant afterwards to capture a city if anything happens to all other melee (like city bombardment).

Will finish my set tomorrow.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Thanks Menelann. I didn't know about that view. I always play with the tile lines on so I can know that stuff. I like your positioning.

Also good point about the tech stealing.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

If we are going to use that strategy against Darius, I suggest that we first clear out the sea to the west with our ships. Once that is completed, and our trebuchets would have arrived at the shore, we would be able to link up with the main army coming from the North


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[EricTheGreat12]

We must remember though to not rush with our trebuchets. I agree Menelann , so that the city doesn't end up bombarding the siege weapons.



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[Menelann]

Agree with your massages guys.
Attila is defending us against Persian fleet though Hopefully he won't move to Persepolis before finishing off Harar...

So, I'm done.

Turn 155. Caravan starts to deliver production in Utique that speeds up colosseum from 2 to 1 turn
Quinquereme discovers new island, so far just city state.

Spoiler :

I thought I got a screenshot, but no( Anyway, it turns out to be a tiny island, you can see it on the minimap on last screen

Attila is angry, very well, just wait a bit.

Spoiler :

Darius has entered Renaissance and next turn he'll finish Oxford too...

Turn 156. Machinery is done, physics in 5 turns. 3 crossbows are done, fourth composite is on his way.
I delay colosseum a bit, to start a golden age when wardec. Not sure if it's right thing to do..
Producing army (swordsman, elephant)

Yey, meet Theodora of Byzantium, she has no resources to trade, sell one of 3 truffles for 7 gpt. She is the one who's founded Buddhism:/ Didn't swap embassies, but probably we will see her lands soon.

Turn 157. Natural wonder is discovered, let Utique grow a bit)

Some hunnic units appear near Persepolis Darius is building opera house, he seems to be very confident xD
so he has acoustics.
Harar is taking damage too. Next war would be fun, we should have frigs up... Attila has a Great Wall too, lol

Theodora wants wine, but I refuse to save it for lux swap.

Turn 158. Producing 2 catapults to upgrade. Workshop in Gades (city #4) is done, building shrine. Some faith would be useful to buy great engineers and stuff.

Have to promote newly acquired swordsman, choose open terrain.

Turn 159. First galleass is done, next in 4 turns. We have great scientist, moved him on the hill.

Looks like we're ready to start war next turn and hope Attila won't take Persepolis before us?

Spoiler :

Moved out units from cities to be ready to attack Persia. If you will start it, finish colosseum in Utique to start a golden age, we need it in 3 turns anyway.
Maybe buy one pikemen to deal with knighs?
About the road, press finish the road before moving catapult


******* M, right, save
1000 year