Ranking the AI leaders
- Thread starter civvver
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Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
Some Traits I feel benefit the AI mentality/bonuses more than others.
Protective - buffs the AI's insistence on using crap archers for defense.
Imperial - spamming settlers never had it so good.
Creative - AI doesn't seem to stack culture too well so +2 out of the gate really helps them out when spamming settlers.
Financial = more coins!
Of course traits alone don;t make a good AI leader though, one only need look at the spineless pos wang is to realize his protective and financial isn't enough to save him.
Cheers!
-Liq
Protective - buffs the AI's insistence on using crap archers for defense.
Imperial - spamming settlers never had it so good.
Creative - AI doesn't seem to stack culture too well so +2 out of the gate really helps them out when spamming settlers.
Financial = more coins!
Of course traits alone don;t make a good AI leader though, one only need look at the spineless pos wang is to realize his protective and financial isn't enough to save him.
Cheers!
-Liq
for me it's difficult to find which AI's can play well. Much depends on the start, on oeighbours, on luck.
On the other hand, some just never do good. Examples are
Mao - he seems to do nothing.
to lesser extent Qin - he seems to do almost nothing
Firaxis team seem to dislike china
SB - he seems to tech to maces and then do nothing
On the other hand, some just never do good. Examples are
Mao - he seems to do nothing.
to lesser extent Qin - he seems to do almost nothing
Firaxis team seem to dislike china
SB - he seems to tech to maces and then do nothing
DMOC
Mathematician
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- 5,594
1. Zara Yaqob
2. Willem van Orange
3. Gilgamesh
4. Suryavarman II
5. Huayna Capac
6. Pericles
7. Hannibal
8. Julius Caesar (see Gliese's Deity Game #1)
9. Louis XIV
10. Catherine (should be rated higher but I forgot about her)
etc.
50. Washington
51. Lincoln
52. WANG KON
I might update this list later.
2. Willem van Orange
3. Gilgamesh
4. Suryavarman II
5. Huayna Capac
6. Pericles
7. Hannibal
8. Julius Caesar (see Gliese's Deity Game #1)
9. Louis XIV
10. Catherine (should be rated higher but I forgot about her)
etc.
50. Washington
51. Lincoln
52. WANG KON
I might update this list later.
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
hani, zara, gilg - good unit spam, good teching, good land grabber(not so much hani, but he compensates by being agg. and attacking with actually a decent power)
degaulle - best backstabber; on marathon if you're isolated he's the one with the highest probability to actually vassal everyone else on the other side; then dow you
. On normal not very impressive. shaka - same on marathon, crap on normal - troop spams too much, tanks his econ. too often.
honourable mention(on marathon, switched to normal not long ago so not enough exp.) - sally, cyrus, octavian, justinian. If they survive and get a decent empire they usually provide a good mix.
honourable mention(same, marathon only) - JC. The only dude who can take over the world(more then once) even if you have contact with him. Imp., org., fast expansion, bam bam praets, there goes the 1st other ai and you usually don't have much to bribe him to stop at that stage.
worst - the cow, any china, any US(at least rossy is useful, you get lotsa wonders for free), any egypt(girl, how can you miss with those traits...), toku(yeah, go tech the whole tree...)
degaulle - best backstabber; on marathon if you're isolated he's the one with the highest probability to actually vassal everyone else on the other side; then dow you
. On normal not very impressive. shaka - same on marathon, crap on normal - troop spams too much, tanks his econ. too often.honourable mention(on marathon, switched to normal not long ago so not enough exp.) - sally, cyrus, octavian, justinian. If they survive and get a decent empire they usually provide a good mix.
honourable mention(same, marathon only) - JC. The only dude who can take over the world(more then once) even if you have contact with him. Imp., org., fast expansion, bam bam praets, there goes the 1st other ai and you usually don't have much to bribe him to stop at that stage.
worst - the cow, any china, any US(at least rossy is useful, you get lotsa wonders for free), any egypt(girl, how can you miss with those traits...), toku(yeah, go tech the whole tree...)
SnowlyWhite
Emperor
the ever annoying bull...
Jamuka
Warlord
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- 273
I've had similar experiances as most of you
1: Zara, Gilga, Sury
2: Asoka, Charlamagne, Justinian
3: Izzy, Bismark, DeGaulle
Worst: Sitting Bull, Chinese, anything with aggressive.
I rarely see a warmonger AI do it successfully, and i play on emperor. Shaka, ghengis, ragnar, monty, and toku are usually last place. Alex and stalin are deffinately the best in the aggressive camp.
Charlamagne, izzy, justinian, and the other fanatics seem to be the only AI capable of putting together a successful invasion.
1: Zara, Gilga, Sury
2: Asoka, Charlamagne, Justinian
3: Izzy, Bismark, DeGaulle
Worst: Sitting Bull, Chinese, anything with aggressive.
I rarely see a warmonger AI do it successfully, and i play on emperor. Shaka, ghengis, ragnar, monty, and toku are usually last place. Alex and stalin are deffinately the best in the aggressive camp.
Charlamagne, izzy, justinian, and the other fanatics seem to be the only AI capable of putting together a successful invasion.
DMOC
Mathematician
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- 5,594
Genghis Khan was doing a pretty good job in ABigCivFan's game when he played as Toku (immortal difficulty I believe). Genghis also was doing well in the Immortal University ++ Churchill in a hostile environment. Those two games are the ones which pop in my mind with the Genghis AI.
Zack
99% hot gas
Firaxis must not think highly towards American or Chinese leaders. Especially Chinese leaders. I mean, how can you give the two worst leaders to China
, and give some of the best to the Khmer and Byzantines???!!!
Absurd!
Gagonite
Irishman
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- 208
Personally I don't think this list is fair due to the terrain. The terrain plays a H.U.G.E. role in who's good and bad in each particular game. Now, if you want, use a static map, like Earth 18. I'll do that, from my experiences of the map and from watching the King of the World series:
1. Qin Shi Huang
This guy, using his superior land, will out tech, out build, out grow nearly everyone 99% of the time. On VERY rare occasions (aka that 1%), he might get boxed in a bit by a combination of Genghis Khan and Tokugawa. That is, if Tokugawa somehow gets a foothold in Asia, which has happened. Other than that, mid-late game this guy just sky-rockets past everyone in everything. Often vassalizes Genghis, sometimes Tokugawa.
2. Cyrus
Oddly enough, even though he's using some incredibly crappy land (The stuff north of Iran.. mostly desert / plains with some seas), he can do very well. His main capitol is a production powerhouse, which probably helps things along a bit. Often gets a vassal or two, usually Saladin or Alexander, on rare occasions Asoka.
3. Catherine
Using the vast expanses of Russia (well, eastern Russia), Catherine can make a pretty strong empire. Often is a military and tech powerhouse and will war with her neighbors if they aren't of the same religious bloc. Though she rarely gets vassals, and can be manipulated into attacking a neighbor fairly easily.
4. Frederick
Often competing with land with Catherine, Freddy most often becomes one of the more dangerous people in Eurasia. He's never a weakling when it comes to military, and often has a strong economy to back it. Often gets a few European vassals like Louis, Julius, or Alex.
5. Montezuma
Nearly always #1 in the military, Monty's primary short-coming is his lack of naval intelligence and his isolationism. He always steamrolls over Roosevelt, and if you remove the Mesoamerican mountain in panama, he'll often vassalize Capac, sometimes colonizing South America too. Never a late-game powerhouse though, after the middle ages he usually just sits around, building large armies of obsolete units and twiddling his thumbs - or waiting for you to put a colony on his continent, in which he sends mountains of catapults and macemen to throw themselves at your superior, but vastly outnumbered units.
6. Hatshepsut
Hatty starts out with amazing cottage-able land. 3 strong cottage cities on flood plains if played correctly, though she usually only makes 2. Her primary cities are low on production though, so often her military is weak until later. She has a habit of settling cities in the middle of the Sahara, just to fill up space.. but often she can keep up with the tech rate of the Old World.
7. Asoka
While he's often a peacemonger, I've seen him build a large army that rivaled some of the more militaristic civs. Thing is, he only uses it in defense. Often he's the founder of a religion and enjoys spreading it to the rest of Asia (sometimes the middle east), creating a religion bloc there. Quite good at teching and economy as well.
8. Mansa Musa
Just like in custom games, he's a big techer. You can always count on him to have good technologies at affordable prices. Often vassalizes to Hatshepsut though, since he doesn't spend much on military. He also has to contend with the barbarian hordes of Africa.
9. Elizabeth
Another great techer, though she's content to live in Britannia. Sometimes she'll lose Ireland, or sometimes even Scotland to the French, on rare occasions Germany. After that though, she usually doesn't expand until Astronomy, when she often gets Iceland and sometimes Newfoundland.
10. Hyuana Capac
10+ is really where the remaining civs all do poorly in games. I chose Capac for the highest of the remaining 8 since if allowed to expand, he can often encompass all of South America and build a strong, if still behind economy. Never has to worry about wars for the most part, since Monty rarely goes into SA. All he has to worry about is the barbarians. Now, if he isn't allowed out of his prison.. he only builds 3 fairly medium sized cities and is often far behind in everything. On RARE occasions he'll found a religion and spread it to the rest of the Americas.
11. Genghis Khan
While usually ends up vassalizing to Qin Shi Huang, on rare occasions, if he's aggressive at the start, he can stump the growth of his southern neighbors, and not vassalize until end game. Nearly always controlls most of Siberia, which is crappy land. Often has a large, obsolete army and a poor economy.
12. Tokugawa
Is fiercely independent, like most games. On rare occasion he'll submit to Qin Shi Huang, but usually just sits in his little corner of the world doing nothing. He'll sometimes expand to parts of Indonesia, and even on rare circumstances take Hawaii. Even rarer will he get a foothold in China and/or Korea. Once he did that, and actually was one of the top competitors in the game, knocking off Qin as a competitor. Only once though. Occasionally he will colonize Austraila too.
13. Isabella
Ah, our religious fanatic. 99% of the time she'll found a religion, and end up making Europe one big happy family. I've seen her have 3 holy cities just on the Iberian Penninsula. Usually has a strong, if very small economy and a weak military. Not much of a threat, more of a prize worth stealing, especially if she has shrines in all her holy cities.
14. Saladin
Another religious fanatic, usually founds one religion and spreads it throughout the Middle east and Africa. Other than that though, he doesn't do a whole lot, and often vassalizes to Cyrus or Hatshepsut. Sometimes colonizes Madagasgar though.
15. Louis XIV
The wonder-spammer. He'll always get the first few wonders, which is wierd since the Great Wall is useless in Europe. Sometimes he'll try and colonize Ireland, Scotland, and Iceland with varying degrees of success. Other than that though, not a threat.
16. Alexander
Ah, Alex, very dangerous person in regular games, an oddball on Earth. He's content to stay in his little island chain of Greece, only rarely leaving to Turkey. Usually vassalizes to someone bigger, often Freddy. On one occasion, in one of the KotW series, he was able to heavily attack Hatshepsut, only to be beaten back and eventually eaten by his neighbors.
17. Julius Caesar
Pretty much on par with Alex, he'll rarely get more than a second city before being blocked in. On one or two occasions though, I saw him attack and even kill (mostly) Freddy, taking Freddy's place of power. Rarely happens though, instead he usually just vassalizes to a stronger neighbor.
18. Roosevelt.
Ah, Roosevelt, poor little Roosevelt. Rarely survives past the middle ages without getting sacrificed on an Aztec altar. If he does survive, theres a 98% chance he'll vassalize to Monty. Never is he a threat in any game. Poor guy, he doesn't know how Americans run things it seems!
So, there you have it, a list of best and worst AI on the Earth 18 Map from my experiences. These may change according to what the Player does of course, but thats always bound to happen.
1. Qin Shi Huang
This guy, using his superior land, will out tech, out build, out grow nearly everyone 99% of the time. On VERY rare occasions (aka that 1%), he might get boxed in a bit by a combination of Genghis Khan and Tokugawa. That is, if Tokugawa somehow gets a foothold in Asia, which has happened. Other than that, mid-late game this guy just sky-rockets past everyone in everything. Often vassalizes Genghis, sometimes Tokugawa.
2. Cyrus
Oddly enough, even though he's using some incredibly crappy land (The stuff north of Iran.. mostly desert / plains with some seas), he can do very well. His main capitol is a production powerhouse, which probably helps things along a bit. Often gets a vassal or two, usually Saladin or Alexander, on rare occasions Asoka.
3. Catherine
Using the vast expanses of Russia (well, eastern Russia), Catherine can make a pretty strong empire. Often is a military and tech powerhouse and will war with her neighbors if they aren't of the same religious bloc. Though she rarely gets vassals, and can be manipulated into attacking a neighbor fairly easily.
4. Frederick
Often competing with land with Catherine, Freddy most often becomes one of the more dangerous people in Eurasia. He's never a weakling when it comes to military, and often has a strong economy to back it. Often gets a few European vassals like Louis, Julius, or Alex.
5. Montezuma
Nearly always #1 in the military, Monty's primary short-coming is his lack of naval intelligence and his isolationism. He always steamrolls over Roosevelt, and if you remove the Mesoamerican mountain in panama, he'll often vassalize Capac, sometimes colonizing South America too. Never a late-game powerhouse though, after the middle ages he usually just sits around, building large armies of obsolete units and twiddling his thumbs - or waiting for you to put a colony on his continent, in which he sends mountains of catapults and macemen to throw themselves at your superior, but vastly outnumbered units.
6. Hatshepsut
Hatty starts out with amazing cottage-able land. 3 strong cottage cities on flood plains if played correctly, though she usually only makes 2. Her primary cities are low on production though, so often her military is weak until later. She has a habit of settling cities in the middle of the Sahara, just to fill up space.. but often she can keep up with the tech rate of the Old World.
7. Asoka
While he's often a peacemonger, I've seen him build a large army that rivaled some of the more militaristic civs. Thing is, he only uses it in defense. Often he's the founder of a religion and enjoys spreading it to the rest of Asia (sometimes the middle east), creating a religion bloc there. Quite good at teching and economy as well.
8. Mansa Musa
Just like in custom games, he's a big techer. You can always count on him to have good technologies at affordable prices. Often vassalizes to Hatshepsut though, since he doesn't spend much on military. He also has to contend with the barbarian hordes of Africa.
9. Elizabeth
Another great techer, though she's content to live in Britannia. Sometimes she'll lose Ireland, or sometimes even Scotland to the French, on rare occasions Germany. After that though, she usually doesn't expand until Astronomy, when she often gets Iceland and sometimes Newfoundland.
10. Hyuana Capac
10+ is really where the remaining civs all do poorly in games. I chose Capac for the highest of the remaining 8 since if allowed to expand, he can often encompass all of South America and build a strong, if still behind economy. Never has to worry about wars for the most part, since Monty rarely goes into SA. All he has to worry about is the barbarians. Now, if he isn't allowed out of his prison.. he only builds 3 fairly medium sized cities and is often far behind in everything. On RARE occasions he'll found a religion and spread it to the rest of the Americas.
11. Genghis Khan
While usually ends up vassalizing to Qin Shi Huang, on rare occasions, if he's aggressive at the start, he can stump the growth of his southern neighbors, and not vassalize until end game. Nearly always controlls most of Siberia, which is crappy land. Often has a large, obsolete army and a poor economy.
12. Tokugawa
Is fiercely independent, like most games. On rare occasion he'll submit to Qin Shi Huang, but usually just sits in his little corner of the world doing nothing. He'll sometimes expand to parts of Indonesia, and even on rare circumstances take Hawaii. Even rarer will he get a foothold in China and/or Korea. Once he did that, and actually was one of the top competitors in the game, knocking off Qin as a competitor. Only once though. Occasionally he will colonize Austraila too.
13. Isabella
Ah, our religious fanatic. 99% of the time she'll found a religion, and end up making Europe one big happy family. I've seen her have 3 holy cities just on the Iberian Penninsula. Usually has a strong, if very small economy and a weak military. Not much of a threat, more of a prize worth stealing, especially if she has shrines in all her holy cities.
14. Saladin
Another religious fanatic, usually founds one religion and spreads it throughout the Middle east and Africa. Other than that though, he doesn't do a whole lot, and often vassalizes to Cyrus or Hatshepsut. Sometimes colonizes Madagasgar though.
15. Louis XIV
The wonder-spammer. He'll always get the first few wonders, which is wierd since the Great Wall is useless in Europe. Sometimes he'll try and colonize Ireland, Scotland, and Iceland with varying degrees of success. Other than that though, not a threat.
16. Alexander
Ah, Alex, very dangerous person in regular games, an oddball on Earth. He's content to stay in his little island chain of Greece, only rarely leaving to Turkey. Usually vassalizes to someone bigger, often Freddy. On one occasion, in one of the KotW series, he was able to heavily attack Hatshepsut, only to be beaten back and eventually eaten by his neighbors.
17. Julius Caesar
Pretty much on par with Alex, he'll rarely get more than a second city before being blocked in. On one or two occasions though, I saw him attack and even kill (mostly) Freddy, taking Freddy's place of power. Rarely happens though, instead he usually just vassalizes to a stronger neighbor.
18. Roosevelt.
Ah, Roosevelt, poor little Roosevelt. Rarely survives past the middle ages without getting sacrificed on an Aztec altar. If he does survive, theres a 98% chance he'll vassalize to Monty. Never is he a threat in any game. Poor guy, he doesn't know how Americans run things it seems!
So, there you have it, a list of best and worst AI on the Earth 18 Map from my experiences. These may change according to what the Player does of course, but thats always bound to happen.
civvver
Deity
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- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 5,855
Because the map changes every game. Obviously whoever has the better land will tend to do better, but over many games the land distribution is average, and some leaders tend to do better with average land in the hands of an AI than others. Put Sury on earth 18 in qin's spot and he'd probably have all of Asia by 1200AD.
civvver
Deity
- Joined
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- Messages
- 5,855
Firaxis must not think highly towards American or Chinese leaders. Especially Chinese leaders. I mean, how can you give the two worst leaders to China
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not... but
basically I think firaxis is more concerned with historical flavor/accuracy than with ultimate balance. They try to match the personalities of the leaders to their historical counterparts, and then give them appropriate traits while still maintaining a diversity of trait combos.
Pacifist46
King
1. Zara (I have no idea how this guy acn afford to REX as much as he does)
2. Justinian (Always a threat)
3. Hannibal (Always big, strong military and strong tech rate)
4. Peter (tough to crack and will build up massive power in late game)
5. Willem (versatile and certainly not weak)
47. Genghis (too weak at teching)
48. Mansa (always has a weak military and so is easy to take out whenever)
49. Shaka (bad teching. Huge numbers of units, but three eras behind)
50. Napoleon (very bad techer)
51. Montezuma (just plain crazy)
52. Sitting Bull (just plain weak)
Also, in more than one of my games I have seen Tokugawa conquer about 35% of land in samurai era and just keep building troops, making him way too strong and dangerous. He can turn into nothing, but I wouldn't say he is that weak.
2. Justinian (Always a threat)
3. Hannibal (Always big, strong military and strong tech rate)
4. Peter (tough to crack and will build up massive power in late game)
5. Willem (versatile and certainly not weak)
47. Genghis (too weak at teching)
48. Mansa (always has a weak military and so is easy to take out whenever)
49. Shaka (bad teching. Huge numbers of units, but three eras behind)
50. Napoleon (very bad techer)
51. Montezuma (just plain crazy)
52. Sitting Bull (just plain weak)
Also, in more than one of my games I have seen Tokugawa conquer about 35% of land in samurai era and just keep building troops, making him way too strong and dangerous. He can turn into nothing, but I wouldn't say he is that weak.
Zack
99% hot gas
yeah i've played 18 civs and qin is a monster there. In 18 civs, Alexander and Ghengis are always WAY behind in tech with a bad economy and weak military, yet they still will go to war with anyone, just as long as I give them a cheap tech or two. And Roosevelt, for some reason he just always gets obliterated by Monty, sometimes very early.
Willy is one of the best especialy after getting the dike. Monty always declares war on me even if im skyrocketing in the power chart. Ragnar is getting alot of hate in this thread, but in my experience he's at least doing average and attacks and usualy beats his neiboring heathens. Wang Kon is almost always bad at everything, but Darius is almost always king of the hill. Mansa Musa is a great tech trader but everybody always hates him in most of my games.
actually ... Sitting Bull is quite rushable if you jump him with a platoon of Chariots
anyones rushable on monarch. once you get to immortal/deity SB becomes the metaphorical brick wall of civ... unless you can get HAs quick or elephants before he gets longbowmen.
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