Rat 41 CCM - AW a first attempt

[CommandoBob]

Theveste Area

Spoiler :

This is where Siam has focused their efforts. They went around Theveste and ignored it totally. I think they were heading to Utica, which has been lightly defended by one or two units. Theveste has three MusketMen in it. A Cavalry has almost arrived at Utica. This area (Oea-Utica) has been fairly quiet. The grass tile 1NW of Theveste has been pillaged this last IBT.

Random Stuff
Inside Saigon are 9 Hussars, an Enslaver and MusketMan. Just southwest of Saigon are 7 Cavalry, 3 Hussar and another MusketMan. That totals to 7 Cavalry, 12 Hussars and 1 MusketMan that can move to 1S of Angkor next turn and attack (excepting the MusketMan, of course). Other units are nearby, heading to Saigon to help in this attack.

The Genoa Roaders are 2NW of the city and now need to road to Udong, two tiles towards the north.

West of St. Petersburg are two groups of workers, both making roads in hills and mountains to connect St. Petersburg more directly with Modena. There are two groups because I forgot that the hill wasn't roaded yet and moved those workers onto the mountain. So the workers on the hill need to help road the hill next turn.

Livorno-St. Petersburg-Yakutsk has been active but should die down some. The Vikings seem intent on Livorno. We haven't seen any fast Viking units.

I haven't seen any of our weak units in the field; they appear to be in cities doing MP duty.

I used Rome as a dividing line on where to send new troops. New units west of Rome headed towards Saigon; east of Rome went towards St. Petersburg or Moscow.

No Mongols were sighted during these turns.

Several Musketeers are active in cities (spacebar); I left them active to remind me to upgrade them. Most are in cities without barracks and cannot upgrade and are more than one turn from a city with a barracks.

The Yogi (Yogi Bear) is in Kampong Cham.

The road from Kampong Cham to Saigon has been cut at the Iron Hill. I did not get a chance to repair it.

We have AI (workers) that move 2 and AI (slaves) that move 1. How did that happen?

Overall, a rather quiet set of turns.

Military

• 02 Workers
• 08 Archer (2.1.1, 20 shields)
• 08 Arquebusier (2.4.1, 40 shields)
• 28 Knights (4.2.2, 50 shields)
• 25 Cavalry (8.3.2, 80 shields)
• 07 Cannon (10 (8).1.2, 30 shields)
• 20 Legionary (3.2.1, 25 shields)
• 15 Musketeers (4.5.1, 40 shields)
• 04 Medieval Infantry (3.3.1, 40 shields)
• 01 Trebuchet (5 (5).1.2, 30 shields)
• 64 Musketman (6.6.1, 50 shields)
• 61 Hussar (6.3.2, 70 shields)
• 02 Supply Shipments
• 01 Yogi (3.1.2, auto produced)
• 01 Lawyer (6.2.2, auto produced in Rome)
• 00 Slave
• 07 Enslaver (2.1.2, auto produced)
• 06 Praetorians (3.3.1, auto produced)
• 18 Southeuropean Workers
  • 208 Allowed units
  • 276 Current units
  • 136 gpt unit support

 

[Northern Pike]

It looks as though we're well set up for the assault on Angkor. I admire your self-control in breaking off just before the attack.

I've got it.

I can't imagine that we need a nest egg of more than 10K, so I'll probably spend everything over that on rushes, unless there's objection.

In CCM artillery types are ordinary units with defense factors (albeit low ones), so they can only be attacked and destroyed, not captured.

We get foreign workers from capture in the ordinary C3C sense, and slaves from the action of slavers. So we're not in control of which sort we get, though before too long we'll be able to upgrade slaves to foreign workers.

eKnight from Hadrumetum (name reminds me of the words to the song Little Drummer Boy)

Oh, you mean the Christmas remix of Wreck a Pum Pum? (Very specialized joke. )

 

[vmxa]

At least all the "cannon" types have to be killed, not captured. I cannot recall about "artillery" types, but I think they cannot be captured either.

Later we will be able to upgrade slaves.

I would not hesitate to upgrade any unit, regardless of elite status. Better to get the stronger units, even when they seem to be in safe locations. Getting leaders is not so critical in CCM, especially at this stage. Maybe once we have rails in place, you can fall back to the C3C tactic of holding them for leaders.

 

[ThERat]

I agree to go ahead and rush some stuff, we don't need more than 10k in the bank.

It does seem that the Mongol stack isn't going to materialize. Let's go on the offense against Indochina so we can finally concentrate to take over the continent in the south.

 

[Civinator]

One more time thank you all very much for your precise and interesting reports and a special thank you very much to CommandoBob for your input in the last posts.

Hussar whacks the Egyptian Knight near St. Petersburg (12 of 12). Hussar could not get back into St. Petersburg and I wanted to move him onto the nearby mountain, but since it was not roaded from the tile he was on this was not possible. Not having "retreatable" mountains tiles is a bit of a shock and forces a change in tactics, since the C3C solution will not work in CCM.

The new concept of using terrain is one of the most important new concepts of CCM and adds a lot of tactical depth to combat in Civ 3. It is based on the "wheeled flag" in the editor and the fact set I didn´t allow access for nearly all units with this flag on mountains and marshes. So only very few units (among them warriors, holy men, lawyers , Alpine troops and workers can cross mountains and marshes without roads. One of the side effects is, that fortresses now get a higher value with these settings, too. With such a new tactical view on the possibilities of the terrain you have to deal with, even encirclement battles are possible and in the prebetatestgames there were even some encirclemet battles done by the AI. But the most important part of the new tactical concept in CCM is to have better defense lines and with this knowledge it was even possible to deal with invisible enslavers without having units that can detect them in the prebetatestgames (so this part is really demanding and was "softened" up by to many civers that had problems with that job).

Here is a quote of one of my posts in the CCM preview thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8381524&postcount=276):

In CCM the terrain plays a much more important part to strategic gameplay than in normal Civ 3. Marshes and mountains are nearly impassable for most stronger military units and for the enslaver, a very pesky early unit in CCM. You can see such an enslaver in the screenshot (blue circle) hunting an Persian warrior. The map is ideal for placing some fortresses (red crosses) to block the path of heavy military units of other civs to my cities on land.

Spoiler :

Notice that at Rostov we have Russian (slave) with stats of 0.0.1 and Russian (workers) of 0.0.2. Both look the same, but have different movements.

They are different units. They are looking the same due to a special automatism in the editor. May be in the future I will have a better solution for these graphics.

@Civinator: Regarding slave turns and worker turns, I see an issue, but not a major one. In the save file, there are 10 slaves stacked 1NE of Krasnoyarsk. The tile is plains, unroaded. It took 9 slaves one turn to road that tile, not the 10 that I expected.

Speculation: If the basic worker time to complete a project cannot be changed directly (i.e., hard-coded, like the city limit) but the final result can be affected by mulitpliers (like for IND workers) then this makes sense. Nine slave turns would then equal 4.5 native worker turns and 4.5 native worker turns would equal the hard-coded value times 1.5 (9 / 2 = 4.5; 4.5 = 3 X 1.5). If the basic worker time to finish a project can be changed directly (3 becomes 5) then 9 slaves should not be able to road a tile in one turn. Unless one slave started roading the prior turn, which I do not know.

This is an interesting theory. At present I cannot confirm if it is true, as I don´t have access to the biq. For the calulation the different worker speeds in different governments and for slaves compared to normal workers is of importance, too.

Arab Spears look great! Too bad they are just Spears. They look a lot stronger.

This is one of the wonderful units made by Sandris. CCM includes tons of his marvelous units - so at this place: Thank you very much Sandris for giving us such nice units.

 

[vmxa]

I am fine with rushing, I am just not sure there is that much worth the trouble to do it. As long as we are on this landmass, we probably do not have a great deal that needs rushing other than frontline items. Once we head to another landmass, we will want to do a lot more rushing and will want to have as much cash as we can get.

For sure I would get those Arq units upgraded, one was lost already and the MDI. The archers can become musketmen for 90 gold and we only have 8. Either we should upgrade them or get rid of them. They have sat around and cost hundreds in support by now.

We still have 28 knights to upgrade. At least one is *elite so no reason to not upgrade.

 

[vmxa]

At some point we are going to want to do some stealing, so another reason to be thrifty with the gold. I just am not fond of rushing granaries and such in the 43rd town, just to get it to grow faster.

Even more so when most of those towns are full of unhappy Indo populations and have to have so many specialist and happy structures.

Again we are going to need to speed up a lot of ship builds as soon as we find the end of this landmass. We will need lot of rushes on any invasion, so I favor only rushing things that are critical or at least important.

 

[M60A3TTS]

How do we steal anything since we are at war with everyone?

 

[vmxa]

I forget is there no espionage in CCM, so maybe we can't. I just remember we stole in the last SG, but that was not AW.

 

[ThERat]

At which point do we really need money in CCM?

There are a few times when you need to upgrade masses of units. We already upgraded those knights, the next step will be to upgrade all the hussars and cavalry to Lancias. Ship are really costly to upgrade too. We better have some extra cash for that.

Another good time for cash is the time we get all those shield boosters such as steam plants, rail yards, light industry etc. It would be good to have some cash for that too.

I agree to rush builds in coastal cities that provide a lot of commerce but lack the shields.

But to have a lot of cash beyond 10k is not really necessary I think.

 

[Elephantium]

Is it common to have this much cash floating around in CCM?

If we have more than we need, probably the best use of cash-rushing will be getting barracks and units in cities at the front. Other buildings in backwater towns can wait a while, I think.

@Northern Pike: How goes the fight?

 

[vmxa]

"Elephantium"
"Is it common to have this much cash floating around in CCM?"

There tends to be a lot of cash, because there is no maint for structures. Humans would build less, but the AI would not in C3C. So all the buildings the AI makes is not breaking them and there are a few extra income buildings.
This extra money comes the humans way as they will conquer more than games with no run away AI.

"If we have more than we need, probably the best use of cash-rushing will be getting barracks and units in cities at the front. Other buildings in backwater towns can wait a while, I think."

That is all I am saying. Lets rush in the frontlines and a few places that have a need. I am not going to race around scores of safe towns to find something to rush, just because I have more than 10k.
10k will not go very far once you have to get 100 boats up and running. If we have enough places that it makes sense to spend every dime, then spend it.

BTW way I see Mongols are down to 25k. IIRC they had 40k last time I looked.

 

[Northern Pike]

I've played five turns so far, and we're making excellent progress on both fronts. The Siamese don't seem to have anything left beyond the garrisons of their six remaining cities.

I'd like to take a little longer to see if I can play more turns, since the holiday chaos is going to be descending on me early, and after this I won't be able to play again until about January 7. I'll post in time for M60 to play on Wednesday evening, at the latest.

 

[vmxa]

I don't see any problem with taking what you need. Be glad to see the end of Indo and Carthage.

 

[ThERat]

Sounds like great progress.

As for the xmas season, could you all indicate whether you can play or are away. Wouldn't want to game totally stalled due to unknown status. Thanks

 

[Elephantium]

I'll generally be home.

 

[vmxa]

I can play on xmas and new years.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I will be around.

 

[Northern Pike]

View attachment 274911, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

1722 (0): Since we're out of monks and can't culture-bomb Angkor, we may be fiercely counterattacked there. So I want to have more musketmen available to hold it, and our attack won't go in until the second turn of this round.

We cash in a couple of supply shipments—red-letter units were just sitting in the capital. The mechanics of that are undeniably confusing at first.

We spike a Siamese bombarde outside Utica (1-0). CB was probably waiting to learn if it could be captured.

We overrun a Siamese fire lancer while preparing an opportunistic strike against Sara Buri (2-0).

Mongol Delphi is still at size ten, and shows only a regular firelancer on top. That's too good an opportunity to pass up, so I get a force from Vladivostok headed in that direction.

Our enemies don't attack, apart from the usual fireworks festival off our coasts.


1724 (1): We easily take Mongol Delphi, held by two fire lancers and a cav, for the loss of a hussar (5-1). We loot the city of 739 gold.

On the Siamese front we storm Sara Buri, held by two fire lancers, though we lose two hussars (7-3). It's encouraging to see such small garrisons from our two main foes.

We ride down a Berserker outside Livorno (8-3).

We move a stack of twenty-six adjacent to Angkor. I prefer to make attacks in which our fast units still have a movement point after combat, and since the Siamese have shown no signs of life in this sector, the risk of counterattacks seems acceptable.

We pick off three Siamese units, two knights and a Jumbo, around Theveste (11-3).

Three Siamese knights attack our stack next to Angkor. Two redline/retreat and one defeats a musketman (11-4).


1726 (2): We clear away Angkor's supporting garrison (in the special CCM sense), held by a fire lancer. We lose a hussar (12-5).

Angkor is held by six fire lancers, a longbowman, a bombarde, and a redlined knight. We seize the town for the loss of just two cav, with five redline-and-retreats (21-7). We gain the Pyramids and capture a worker.

We mop up two knights and a fire lancer, all of course Siamese, around Angkor (24-7).

We swat a fire lancer around Sara Buri (25-7).

We harrow a fire lancer outside Oea (26-7).

We blast an Egyptian arq outside Yakutsk (27-7).

Around Livorno we expunge three Eg and three Viking units, losing an elite knight (33-8).

We lose a hussar left in a bad position by our attack on Angkor's garrison (again, in the CCM sense), but it puts up a fine fight, taking an LB and a knight with it (35-9).


1728 (3): The Arabs seem to be competing for some kind of "Most Vulnerable Stack" award--they have a longbowman covered by a bombarde near Yakutsk. We rout both with elite knights (37-9).

Outside St. Petersburg we smite an Eg arq/LB pair, gaining our first Great Artist (39-9).

We cannonade a Siamese knight landed next to Sara Buri, gaining our first Great Leader of the round (40-9).

Research down to 20%, Navigation still due in one turn.

We pacify two Berserkers outside Livorono, then begin pushing our road network beyond the town (42-9).

We dispose of Rangoon's garrison preparatory to attacking the town, losing a cav to dislodge a fire lancer (43-10).

We move adjacent to Byzantion, the next Mongol/Greek city on the southeastern coast, and also to Mongol Piraeus.

Navigation --> Naval Guns, due in four turns at 60%.


1730 (4): Our Leader rushes a university in Genoa.

We capture Rangoon, though winkling out the garrison of two fire lancers costs us two hussars and two redline-and-retreats (45-12).

We take Byzantion, held by a musketman, two fire lancers, and a cav, for the loss of a cav and a hussar (49-14). We steal 1446 gold.

We storm Mongol Piraeus, held by three musketmen and a cav, for the loss of a cav (53-15). I decided to use cannon until we lost one, and it never happened. We claim 1467 gold this time.

On the Siamese front we advance towards Da Nang in the west, Bangkok in the centre, and Ubon Ratchathani in the east.

Yogi Bear converts a Siamese LB, so we're able to culture-bomb Angkor--a great relief (54-15).

We liquidate two Viking units outside Livorno, and two Eg knights north of Yakutsk (58-15). We gain our second Great Leader of the round.

We lose one hussar to the attack of a Siamese knight—given that we advanced three stacks very aggressively, a low price (58-16).

The Military Academy in Carthage produces a Schneider 75—our first, I think.



1732 (5): Our latest Leader rushes a university in Rostov.

Yogi Bear disposes of a Siamese garrison that isn’t, er, garrisoned , but is on an unroaded mountain inaccessible to our other units. Holy men are useful for a long time for tricks like this, and for that reason among others I wish we’d been more careful with them.

We seize Ubon Ratchathani, held by two fire lancers (60-16).

We clear away Bangkok’s garrison, held by a fire lancer (61-16).

We capture Bangkok, held by two fire lancers and a knight. We lose a cav (64-17).

We dispose of Da Nang’s garrison, held by a fire lancer (65-17).

We take Da Nang (size 23), held by four fire lancers. We lose a cav and a hussar (69-19).

We sweep away a Siamese stack of a fire lancer and two LB west of Angkor, in the process locating Hanoi (72-19).

We destroy Hanoi’s garrison, held by a fire lancer (73-19).

We storm Hanoi, held by three fire lancers and one invisible unit, for the loss of a cav (77-20).

We hunt down two Mongol fire lancers around Byzantion, but lose a hussar (79-21).

We’re a little exposed around Hanoi after our unprepared attack there, but the Siamese plainly don’t have much left, and don’t attack.

We see a tremendous naval battle between the Vikings and the Egyptians off Venice—about ten ships are sunk. So it’s no surprise that those two enemies haven’t been putting any pressure on us in the south.


1734 (6): We seize Prey Nokor, the last Siamese city in the northeast, held by a fire lancer and a late pikeman—soon the late late pikeman (81-21).

Gadir, the last Carthaginian city, is in cav range of Da Nang. So we capture it, routing two late pikemen, but the Carths aren’t eliminated, and I have to reload to avoid CCM’s houseboat-civ bug. That’s a pity, since now unhappiness may restrain the growth of our Carthaginian cities for quite a while.

East of Livorno we road our way up the the Viking town of Nykoping, which we’ll be able to attack next turn.

We move a stack adjacent to Mongol Patras, and in doing so we seem to reach the east coast of our continent; but we find later that the landmass may project farther east to the south.

Here and there on the southern front we strike down five enemies, gaining our second Great Artist (86-21).

Has anyone pointed out that the Mongols hold Utrecht? So the Dutch might be on our continent too.

In the north we account for a Siamese LB outside Hanoi, a Siamese knight north of Angkor, and a Viking swordsman landed next to Oea (89-21).

We lose a cav and a hussar to desperate attacks on our advancing columns, though we repel the attack of a Siamese LB (90-23).

Da Nang’s coming-out-of-resistance disorder lasts another turn, because it turns out fourteen clowns are needed to keep the last two citizens to abandon resistance content. I assumed six had to be sufficient, and made the other citizens taxmen.


1736 (7): Naval Guns due in one turn, but we can’t cut the research rate.

We capture Nykoping, the Viking town east of Livorno, held by two late pikemen (92-23).

We abuse a Berserker outside Nykoping, and push our road beyond the town (93-23).

We take Mongol Patras, held by two fire lancers and a cav (96-23). We gain 1183 gold.

We have a Great Artist along, but we don’t culture-bomb Patras, because the town has no roads and doing so wouldn’t speed up our movement.

Turning to the Siamese front, we storm Kompong Svay, held by two fire lancers, after first disposing of its garrison, held by one FL (99-23).

There’s an Arab LB north of KS, which is odd. Have the Arabs and the Siamese been at war?

We seize Phnom Penh, held by three FL. We can’t get to the town’s garrison, so it’s a bloody business and we lose three hussars (102-26).

At Mandalay we face another ugly attack in which we can’t reach the garrison, and we lose two cav, but shatter three FL and capture the city (105-28). We gain a worker.

We devastate another Viking swordsman landed near Oea, a Carth phant around Da Nang, an Arab bombarde north of Yakutsk, and a Mongol FL and an Arab Jumbo around Piraeus (110-28). We gain our third Great Leader of the round in the far northern tundra, not the most convenient location, but he can usefully rush a university in Angkor next turn.

This round we built or rushed eighteen Roman Symbols, seventeen town clocks, eleven libraries, eleven Christian Communities, ten academies, five granaries, five royal barracks, three universities, three city walls, two town centres, an aqueduct, and a harbour.

Five victories this round by holy or unholy men (lawyers ) yielded three monks/Great Artists.

One slaver victory this round generated one slave.

Twenty-three elite victories this round produced three Great Leaders.