RB25 - The Golden Five

[Gusto]

1750 AD (Turn 0)
Hippy Variant

Longbowman -> Merry Man
Ninia (Caravel) -> Niña
Caravel -> Pinta
Galleon -> Roman Toga Party

1755 AD (Turn 1)
Cornelia
Observatory -> Bank

Tuscany
Bank -> Workboat

Straussburg
Jewish Temple -> Jewish Synagogue
I hired a 7th Priest to increase Straussburg GPP/Turn to 66. Hiring a 7th Priest causes Straussburg in to Starvation at -1 Food/Turn. There’s plenty of food stored so Straussburg will not starve down 1 pop until a GPerson gets popped.

Great People
Corneia will pop a GPerson at 2000 GPP.
Straussburg will pop a GPerson at 2200 GPP.
Straussburg current GPP is 1290.

Yucky Math
2200 GPP - 1290 GPP = 910 GPP / 66 GPP = 14 Turns for GPerson

Barbs

Tuskelicious Whack-A-Arch

1760 AD (Turn 2)
IBT
Mansa adopts Universal Suffrage
Hinduism spreads to Setia

Venice
Observatory -> Research

Tuscany
Workboat -> Jewish Temple

1765 AD (Turn 3)
IBT
St. Paul (GProphet) born in Timbuktu

1770 AD (Turn 4)
Research
Steel -> Rifling

Great People
Bi Sheng (GE) born in Cornelia
I sent one group (GE, GM, GS, GA) to Straussburg and sent another group (GE, GM, GS, GA) to Lillehammer. Strauss can trigger his GA in his turn set.

Tuscany
Workboat creates Fishing Nets on Fish W of Tuscany.

1775 AD (Turn 5)
IBT
Mansa completed the Masjid al-Haram.

Diplomacy

I renegotiated our Clam deal with Caesar.

Military
Niña & Pinta upgraded to Frigates.

Click for Part 2

 

[T-hawk]

I hired a 7th Priest to increase Straussburg GPP/Turn to 66. Hiring a 7th Priest causes Straussburg in to Starvation at -1 Food/Turn. There’s plenty of food stored so Straussburg will not starve down 1 pop until a GPerson gets popped.

I love "extreme" moves like this. Far more often in an SG you'll see someone think they're doing a good deed by "fixing" a starving city or "optimizing" it for the most hammer production. Running 7 priests at food deficit is unusual indeed, but when it's the right thing to do, it's the right thing to do.

BTW, Cornelia can now ease off the specialists. And we can lose Pacifism as soon as Straussburg's done with that Prophet too. I'd recommend a double-revolt to Univ Suffrage and Free Religion, more for that 10% science boost than anything else.

 

[Gusto]

1780 AD (Turn 6)
Cornelia
Bank -> Grocer

Lillehammer
Bank -> Jewish Temple

Izzy Spies

Hello Izzy boats spying on our territory. Would you like to play with me?

1785 AD (Turn 7)
Tuscany
Hindu Temple -> Grocer

Izzy Spies

Where are you going? Don’t you want to play with me.

1790 AD (Turn 8)
Izzy Spies

Where did they go? They didn't want to play with me.

T-Hawk's Idea

Dr. Raider pillages a Cow pasture near revolted Madrid.

1795 AD (Turn 9)
IBT
Leonardo di Vinci born in far away land (Rome).

Diplomacy

Here you go Caesar; good buddy, and enjoy spending the gold. We'll visit you to collect on the tribute with interest. How you say? Well, Caesar, we're going to raze all your cities.

Diplomacy

Madam, did anyone say to you how ugly you look when you're angry? The captain of the Niña requests you forward a message to your naval spies to come out and play with him.

Click for Part 3

 

[Gusto]

1800 AD (Turn 10)
IBT
Spiral Minaret built in Rome.

Cornelia
Grocer -> Ironworks

Lillehammer
Jewish Temple -> Grocer

Straussburg

Straussburg will pop a GProphet in 6 turns.

I would say we have our Golden Five so how do you want to win this SG?

World Map

Click on World Map for a larger version.

Saved Game
View attachment 139611

Turn Set
Sullla <<< on deck
mucco
T-Hawk
Gusto
Strauss <<< UP NOW

We should see the completion of our Golden Five in Strauss turn set. Send the GProphet to Lillehammer for T-Hawk to trigger the last and fifth GA.

 

[Strauss]

We should see the completion of our Golden Five in Strauss turn set. Send the GProphet to Lillehammer for T-Hawk to trigger the last and fifth GA.

I will leave this honor to Sullla. I won't be able to play until Tuesday.

 

[Gusto]

I love "extreme" moves like this. Running 7 priests at food deficit is unusual indeed.

Extreme? Maybe so. I just saw the team working to pop a GProphet in Straussburg, and figured if we're going to pop the dude, well, than let's pop the dude.

 

[mucco]

Good thing we're Germans...

 

[Sullla]

I'm willing to wait until Tuesday to let Strauss play, since in about 12 hours we're going to be getting deluged with Epic Eight reports over at Realms Beyond.

As Gusto posed the question in his excellent turn report, "how do we want to win this one"? Obviously that determines a lot of how we play things from this point forward. Do we want to relax and carry out a leisurely space race, change tacks completely and aim for culture, or "go Cyrus" on everyone and pursue Conquest? (Keep in mind we're going to lose a LOT of resources if we declare war on Mansa.) I'm fine with pursuing any path, but we should stop and decide as a group where we want to head next.

 

[ruff_hi]

Regarding GP probabilibies ... if I understand this post correctly, then all of your above probability calculations are wrong. According to my understand of the linked post, the GP probabilities are calculated across turns. Thus if you hire 1 GE and 7 GA for the whole time that you need to generate enough GPPs to pop a GP, then the probability of getting an GE is 50% and the probability of getting a GA is 50%.

The way I understand it is that the probabilities are calculated BY SOURSE of GPPs per turn and then averaged over the turns. If you run 1 GS for 10 turns, then 2 GP for 5 turns (15 turns being enough to generate a GP), then you have a 10/15 probability of getting a GS and a 5/15 probability of getting a GP even though your total GPP is 50/50 GS and GP.

If you have a wonder generating GA points, that counts as 1 source and a hired artist counts as another source. So if you have a wonder, hire an artist and hire a priest for all the turns, then you will have a 2/3 chance of getting an artist and a 1/3 chance of getting a priest.

Naturally, if I have mis-understood the info in that post, then the above is total crap. All of that said - it seems that you popped the GP you needed - well done!

 

[mucco]

I think trying to beat Mansa to the space will be a much harder task than to fight him. His economy looks very powerful and still a lot improving, while our cities, already quite well developed, don't have much room for improvement. At this point, my opinion is to make use of our Panzers to destroy Mali's core, at least. If we burn down the best Malinese cities, then we'll be able to win how we want. But leaving Mansa in peace would be almost suicidal.

Resources... Mansa is so happy with us, that we could even get them back if we're able to make peace quickly. It's only -3 for war, and -2 for every city razed, after all.

Culture doesn't look so viable to me, because of the GPs already used we won't have many Great Artists available.

 

[T-hawk]

According to my understand of the linked post, the GP probabilities are calculated across turns. Thus if you hire 1 GE and 7 GA for the whole time that you need to generate enough GPPs to pop a GP, then the probability of getting an GE is 50% and the probability of getting a GA is 50%.

GP probabilities are calculated across turns, but also across sources. With 1 GE and 7 GA, your chance of a GA will be 87.5% and GE will be 12.5%.

Kylearan's post says this: Each type of specialist counts as one source for the respective great person type. He points out that the probabilities accumulate per source, not per point. That is, a 1 GPP national wonder contributes the same to the probabilities as a 3 GPP specialist.


Anyway, regarding our victory here... I would prefer to ride out a leisurely space victory -- if the team thinks that we can actually stay ahead of Mansa for the duration. (Hire Scientists in Venice now so we can finally get an academy!) If the team thinks we have to go after Mansa for the sake of not losing, that makes sense to me. We don't have to conquer him entirely (don't forget WW), but I'll not be surprised if the team decides we do need to take him down a peg.

 

[Gusto]

Great info on GPeople sources and probability.

Anyway I wanted to inform the team that I'll be unavailable for an undetermined amount of time to tend to family matters. There was a horrific accident and I lost two family members with another in seriously critical condition in the hospital. So if it comes time for my turn set and I don't reply than please bypass me or find an alternant.

Regarding a victory condition, I’m in favor for Conquest, Cultural, Diplomatic, or Space Race. Personally, I’m more in favor of a Cultural or Diplomatic victory because we can still use specialists and GPeople; and using specialists and GPeople is the main focus in this game. For Cultural victory, the three legendary cities are Cornelia, Tuscany, and Straussburg; however I would give Lillehammer a close examination for candidacy as a legendary city.

 

[ruff_hi]

There was a horrific accident and I lost two family members with another in seriously critical condition in the hospital.

Custo, this is devastating and very sad news indeed. I'm sure that everyone here feels for your loss and prays for the safe recovery of the injured and support for the surviving members of your family.

 

[mucco]

Gusto, this is devastating and very sad news indeed. I'm sure that everyone here feels for your loss and prays for the safe recovery of the injured and support for the surviving members of your family.

Indeed. Sorry to hear about that, Gusto.

 

[Sullla]

Anyway I wanted to inform the team that I'll be unavailable for an undetermined amount of time to tend to family matters. There was a horrific accident and I lost two family members with another in seriously critical condition in the hospital. So if it comes time for my turn set and I don't reply than please bypass me or find an alternant.

Oh my, I'm so sorry to hear that.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones.

 

[sunrise089]

Wow Gusto, I'm very sorry to hear about your family.
____

As for victory conditions, just as a lurker, I'd like to see a Space win. I don't recall seeing many good players go for one, so I understand if it's too boring; however I think medium skilled players like myself have to go for a space win more often, so I'd like to see how a group of good players goes for it with only five cities.

 

[scottin]

I think trying to beat Mansa to the space will be a much harder task than to fight him. His economy looks very powerful and still a lot improving, while our cities, already quite well developed, don't have much room for improvement. At this point, my opinion is to make use of our Panzers to destroy Mali's core, at least. If we burn down the best Malinese cities, then we'll be able to win how we want. But leaving Mansa in peace would be almost suicidal.

Resources... Mansa is so happy with us, that we could even get them back if we're able to make peace quickly. It's only -3 for war, and -2 for every city razed, after all.

Culture doesn't look so viable to me, because of the GPs already used we won't have many Great Artists available.

Another alternative, if you want a space race but are worried about Mansa's economy, is to attack his economy instead of his cities. Instead of attacking his cities (and incurring a -2 diplo penalty for each city razed), you could pillage all his towns and resources back to the Stone Age. This would basically shatter his economy; war weariness wouldn't escalate very quickly, since you would only be killing unit that Mansa sends at you, and gains you a little extra cash for your own research efforts.

 

[Sullla]

Getting back to the actual game here... Strauss, Tuesday has come and gone without the turns being played. Would you like me to pick up the save and play, or should we skip you this go around? It's time to stop feasting on the Epic Eight reports and get back to Succession Game play.

 

[Strauss]

Yes, please skip me. I still have a lot of things to do, and writing my Epic 8 report took up pretty much all of my civ time.

 

[Liquidated]

Really facinating SG here btw. It illustrates how powerful forced specs can be. The entire GP odds experiments of pure vs 'All-in-Wonder' made this a blast to watch.

Mop up time~

Cheers!
-Liq