RBE DSG2 - It's a Small World After All
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Way too early to think forbidden palace, T-hawk. Unless we pull one or more leaders, that's millenia away. Even if we get leaders, we would not do so until war. Let's just wait and see what the next couple rounds bring, then revisit the idea.
And yes, there IS accessible fresh water past Zimbabwe. Memphis is built on a lake, and I have a verified line of irrigable plains all the way from there to our capital.
- Sirian
And yes, there IS accessible fresh water past Zimbabwe. Memphis is built on a lake, and I have a verified line of irrigable plains all the way from there to our capital.
- Sirian
1750BC (0) - Suprisingly, I make no changes... Egypt requests we leave...
1725BC (1) We discover Masonry, I begin researching Alphabet at -1 a turn as I don't think we'll get a very good deal at 3rd civ prices . The forest chop completes revealing a sheilded grassland which I start to mine. The forest shields goto...Madrid. I build a spearman which will waste no shields. Cleo demands I leave, I do automatically.
1700BC (2) A settler and warrior pair are making a move from Badepi so i'm taking our troops out of garrison to block him from passing through our land.
Let's hope we don't get an early sneak attack. I don't want to ask for him to leave because I wouldn't be suprised if Shaka declared war on us. I'm sending another Jag to explore beyond the choke point. The egyptians begin the pyramids.
1675BC(3) More Blockading.
1650BC(4) Our blockade continues to work. We found San Antonio totally wrecking the abandoned Spanish theme with some Texas flare. Teno grows to size 2, but we only need 2 turns to complete our temple so I forgo the whip.
1625BC(5) ...
1600BC(6) This is starting to look like on of those island maps where every island is connected by a choke point as there is another one east of the original one.
I bump lux to 10%. 9 turns to Alphabet. Zulu complete the oracle in Zimbabwe. Zulu start buildng the pyramids too.
1575BC(7) I start chopping another forest down around madrid. Zulu Establish Embassy with us.
1550bC(8) Madrid produces another settler. Drop lux to 0%. Going to found Orange dot.
1525BC(9) ...
1500BC(10) We still can't tell if there is anything on the other side of the second choke point. Our cultural borders expanded around Teno so hopefully the zulu stay away from our frozen lands. The blockade has worked the entire time and both Shaka and Cleo are still polite with us even though we have been asked to leave numerous times. The forest will pop and sheilds goto teno for sure this time so watch out if you veto my settler choice. I'm thinking we found the red dot with a settler from teno, build a barracks in teno and then start cranking jags. For Madrid, we should let the temple complete and then grow it to size six (with a couple workers along the way) so it can crank jags 1 a turn. Next big worker project should be a road to Teot.
1500BC
1725BC (1) We discover Masonry, I begin researching Alphabet at -1 a turn as I don't think we'll get a very good deal at 3rd civ prices . The forest chop completes revealing a sheilded grassland which I start to mine. The forest shields goto...Madrid. I build a spearman which will waste no shields. Cleo demands I leave, I do automatically.
1700BC (2) A settler and warrior pair are making a move from Badepi so i'm taking our troops out of garrison to block him from passing through our land.
Let's hope we don't get an early sneak attack. I don't want to ask for him to leave because I wouldn't be suprised if Shaka declared war on us. I'm sending another Jag to explore beyond the choke point. The egyptians begin the pyramids.
1675BC(3) More Blockading.
1650BC(4) Our blockade continues to work. We found San Antonio totally wrecking the abandoned Spanish theme with some Texas flare. Teno grows to size 2, but we only need 2 turns to complete our temple so I forgo the whip.
1625BC(5) ...
1600BC(6) This is starting to look like on of those island maps where every island is connected by a choke point as there is another one east of the original one.
I bump lux to 10%. 9 turns to Alphabet. Zulu complete the oracle in Zimbabwe. Zulu start buildng the pyramids too.
1575BC(7) I start chopping another forest down around madrid. Zulu Establish Embassy with us.
1550bC(8) Madrid produces another settler. Drop lux to 0%. Going to found Orange dot.
1525BC(9) ...
1500BC(10) We still can't tell if there is anything on the other side of the second choke point. Our cultural borders expanded around Teno so hopefully the zulu stay away from our frozen lands. The blockade has worked the entire time and both Shaka and Cleo are still polite with us even though we have been asked to leave numerous times. The forest will pop and sheilds goto teno for sure this time so watch out if you veto my settler choice. I'm thinking we found the red dot with a settler from teno, build a barracks in teno and then start cranking jags. For Madrid, we should let the temple complete and then grow it to size six (with a couple workers along the way) so it can crank jags 1 a turn. Next big worker project should be a road to Teot.
1500BC
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Lookin good! Lots of difficult gaming ahead, but... we're in the game. 
- Sirian
- Sirian
smegged
Psi Cop
Hey, Shaka might even build us the Pyramids (boy they completed the Oracle FAST).
smegged
Psi Cop
T-Hawk is up
T-hawk
Transcend
So now we're a Tex-Mex-Aztec-Spanish cultural agglomeration?
Has anyone made any tribute demands yet? That usually happens at least once before they attack.
I see it, can play on Monday night most likely.
Has anyone made any tribute demands yet? That usually happens at least once before they attack.
I see it, can play on Monday night most likely.
T-hawk
Transcend
Inherited turn:
Looks like the blockade missed a beat - the Zulu settler can advance a half-step this turn. I can't do anything about it, though. Nothing changed.
1475: I start the northernmost jag running across Egyptian territory to see what's out there.
1450: The forest chop went to Tenochtitlan, so I swap it off the settler to a granary, rather than having it drop to size 1 for the settler. It'll complete right before another growth, and it'll help with workers and whipping.
1400: Doh, Cleo kicks out our jag. But the Zulu settler turns around and goes north! Madrid produces a temple, starts a worker due in 2 (5 shields/turn.)
1375: Santiago, just to continue the cultural confusion, founded on the southern tip. Teotihuacan whips a temple on schedule, and walls ordered up next. Alphabet comes in - I set to Writing at max.
1350: Madrid completes worker, starts archer.
1300: Tenochtitlan starts barracks. America completes the Colossus. The Zulu settler went into Bapedi and I haven't seen it leave.
1250 BC: I decide to stop doing deficit research, since if anyone demands tribute, it will smack us down to 0 gold running a deficit, and a building will go poof. Next leader can decide how to manage that.
War is coming soon... Tenochtitlan could whip out its barracks this turn, or build that and save the whip for an archer. The southern iceboxes are just building temples; dunno what else to build there. Possibly granaries as harbor placeholders in a little while.
Our jag has been ever so quietly tiptoeing across Egyptian territory, hoping it doesn't get kicked out.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/RBE2-1250BC.zip
Looks like the blockade missed a beat - the Zulu settler can advance a half-step this turn. I can't do anything about it, though. Nothing changed.
1475: I start the northernmost jag running across Egyptian territory to see what's out there.
1450: The forest chop went to Tenochtitlan, so I swap it off the settler to a granary, rather than having it drop to size 1 for the settler. It'll complete right before another growth, and it'll help with workers and whipping.
1400: Doh, Cleo kicks out our jag. But the Zulu settler turns around and goes north! Madrid produces a temple, starts a worker due in 2 (5 shields/turn.)
1375: Santiago, just to continue the cultural confusion, founded on the southern tip. Teotihuacan whips a temple on schedule, and walls ordered up next. Alphabet comes in - I set to Writing at max.
1350: Madrid completes worker, starts archer.
1300: Tenochtitlan starts barracks. America completes the Colossus. The Zulu settler went into Bapedi and I haven't seen it leave.
1250 BC: I decide to stop doing deficit research, since if anyone demands tribute, it will smack us down to 0 gold running a deficit, and a building will go poof. Next leader can decide how to manage that.
War is coming soon... Tenochtitlan could whip out its barracks this turn, or build that and save the whip for an archer. The southern iceboxes are just building temples; dunno what else to build there. Possibly granaries as harbor placeholders in a little while.
Our jag has been ever so quietly tiptoeing across Egyptian territory, hoping it doesn't get kicked out.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/RBE2-1250BC.zip
1250BC: Writing at our best non-deficit rate is pretty slow. I am tempted to go for min science so we have more cash to support a substantial army, but I don't think we're going to be able to afford writing with cash anytime soon; we still have free support for 8 more units anyway. I'm not sure that building those fishing villages now was worth the time away from building up our military, but at least it prevents the AI from founding any new cities in our territory and gets us more free units. Looks like my main job will be building up our military.
1300 BC: America completes the Colossus.
1075 BC: America completes the Pyramids. This should spark their Golden Age.
1050 BC: Egypt cascades to & completes the Great Lighthouse. Zulus lose some shields from Zimbabwe in the cascade.
We built several archers and a couple spearmen, and some workers in towns that were getting close to their max pop and only getting 1 food per turn. I held off on Jags since we are now at our max unit count. Even so, our Military adviser is still complaining we are weaker than the Zulus. Most of our military, such as it is, is in Madrid. Our eastern Jag is stuck in enemy territory and not able to do much; we should disband him unless we want to keep him around to distract the Zulu when we go to war with them. Our northern Jag was able to get a significant amount more explored in Cleo's territory, which, by the way, is huge in comparison to what we have and what we are aware the Zulu have. The Zulu have a very tough defensive problem on their hands, as their lands are all split up and unreinforceable. Intombe and Bapedi have culture now so won't be autorazed when we take them. However, we need to be VERY careful not to let Cleo grab the bulk of the Zulu lands and further increase their territory advantage.
We are 10 turns away from Writing, at a small (-2) defecit research. We have enough cash (30) to finish the research but not if we get threatened between now and then. The AIs have mapmaking, obviously, and are well ahead of us in tech, unsurprisingly. I have not yet sold our map or attempted to purchase others' maps.
Here's a pic of our lands:
And the link:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-1000bc.zip
1300 BC: America completes the Colossus.
1075 BC: America completes the Pyramids. This should spark their Golden Age.
1050 BC: Egypt cascades to & completes the Great Lighthouse. Zulus lose some shields from Zimbabwe in the cascade.
We built several archers and a couple spearmen, and some workers in towns that were getting close to their max pop and only getting 1 food per turn. I held off on Jags since we are now at our max unit count. Even so, our Military adviser is still complaining we are weaker than the Zulus. Most of our military, such as it is, is in Madrid. Our eastern Jag is stuck in enemy territory and not able to do much; we should disband him unless we want to keep him around to distract the Zulu when we go to war with them. Our northern Jag was able to get a significant amount more explored in Cleo's territory, which, by the way, is huge in comparison to what we have and what we are aware the Zulu have. The Zulu have a very tough defensive problem on their hands, as their lands are all split up and unreinforceable. Intombe and Bapedi have culture now so won't be autorazed when we take them. However, we need to be VERY careful not to let Cleo grab the bulk of the Zulu lands and further increase their territory advantage.
We are 10 turns away from Writing, at a small (-2) defecit research. We have enough cash (30) to finish the research but not if we get threatened between now and then. The AIs have mapmaking, obviously, and are well ahead of us in tech, unsurprisingly. I have not yet sold our map or attempted to purchase others' maps.
Here's a pic of our lands:
And the link:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-1000bc.zip
smegged
Psi Cop
That means I'm up. I'll grab it and play tomorrow (around 12 hours time probably).
T-hawk
Transcend
Is the cascade over? Do we have any kind of shot at getting the Great Library, starting a Palace prebuild in Tenochtitlan now?
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
We can't effectively do both wonders and war. I'm in favor of war. We can get techs from the peace, and our window of opportunity to make war work out could be limited.
- Sirian
- Sirian
I would have to agree with Sirian. Trying to build a wonder would really cripple our war effort, especially if we want to have any kind of hope of grabbing some of the Zulu heartlands -- which would provide more fertile lands and access to water that we desperately need. The Great Library is nice but it's not that nice; we can catch up on tech over time with lux deals for our wines (and dyes if we can grab some of the Zulu heartland.)
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Besides... we have a better shot at wonders via leaders than we do via self-build.
smegged
Psi Cop
Well these ten turns flew by. I spent all of these turns maximising trade without costing us production. Unfortunately a stupid barb galley screwed up my plans to get Writing on my last turn. Blah. Once Madrid had reached size six it could produce 11 sheilds (after corruption) OR a load of trade (running deficit food). I recommend a mixture and going for ten sheilds and use as many sea tiles as possible.
Writing is due next turn, and we have around 30 gold in the bank. Oh, and we also have slightly updated maps. Our maps didn't sell for much either. Egypt is expanding off our island already so pulling them into a war should help slow that (or maybe not considerring that this IS deity).
Good luck to the next leader, who's goal is to get an embassy with Egypt and then to save up enough money for a millitary alliance.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-750bc.zip
No map is needed this time because nothing has changed since last time (I disbanded our wayward warrior - he was a nuicance to the Egyptians and was costing us money).
Writing is due next turn, and we have around 30 gold in the bank. Oh, and we also have slightly updated maps. Our maps didn't sell for much either. Egypt is expanding off our island already so pulling them into a war should help slow that (or maybe not considerring that this IS deity).
Good luck to the next leader, who's goal is to get an embassy with Egypt and then to save up enough money for a millitary alliance.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-750bc.zip
No map is needed this time because nothing has changed since last time (I disbanded our wayward warrior - he was a nuicance to the Egyptians and was costing us money).
We need to get this war going soon, or we're going to get left in Egypt's dust. If we want an alliance with Egypt we probably should shut off research at least temporarily once we get writing. Good luck, Sirian, hopefully you can get the ball rolling!
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
IT 750BC: We're over the cap on what we can afford with troops. That sixth city would have been nice, but too late now. There appear to be seven archers in Madrid? Seven archers, three jags and two spears, an even dozen units. I send them toward the Zulu city. We declare war and capture one Zulu worker on the border.
710BC: Our stack-o-dozen is in position. The attack on the Zulu city commences. Uh...
We lose nine of ten combats.
That bears repeating. We lose NINE of TEN combats. Our entire offensive army is now kaput. Three jags, six archers gone, only one enemy unit slain, five actually promoted.
Five impis defending that city? At least that many. Then, get this, after all the ridiculous losses, I charge a spear unit out of Madrid to attack a warrior we couldn't even beat with an archer, who is about to pillage our wine tile, and he wins. Our whole offense achieves nothing at all, but look out! Our spearman is a real badass!
Believe it or not, I've actually seen WORSE combat luck than this at this stage of a game. One reason I shy away from this game plan in general: I don't care what anybody says, THIS random number generator has frequent long streaks leading to lots of very improbable results. You need a massive SoD, or the luck of the Irish, or a lot of reloading, to be SURE to win anything at this stage. That's one reason, I believe, why you see such DRASTIC swings in tournament games, where one guy's game has AI One crushing AI Two, but someone else's game it's the complete opposite.
In any event, any Deity game in which the player is boxed into a corner with no chance to get more than a couple of cities by peaceful expansion, there's really no choice anyway. If you try to run a peaceful game with too little land, you're doomed, so might as well see what you can do in the way of obtaining more land.
Also, the fact that the game sometimes poorly distributes the lux on small pelago maps, yet won't place civs on any land mass with no luxuries, can lead to a LOT of crowded situations, ala Epic Ten. One might think that civs should be scattered all over the islands, but that virtually never happens. Most of the time they are bunched, and the more I see that, the more fault I find with it.
A situation like epics four and nine, where the player is amidst a lot of space, you can do a lot with such a situation, even when the AI's grab most of the land. Situations like this are more dire.
690-570BC: I scraped together enough cash from pennies to buy an embassy with Egypt. Then Cleo wouldn't ally with us anyway, wanting the kind of money we could not even dream of coming up with, so we were on our own. Lots of troops came down from Zimbabwe, including some vet swordsmen. I had slightly favorable luck on that front, defending vs one sword, an archer and impi, and attacking and killing the other sword. ALL of the combat luck in the back lines was poor, though. One single impi pillaged a couple of our tiles and killed SIX of our troops, then limped home as a wounded but very elite unit.
Our jags won one of eight battles in which they fought, and the one victory was a defensive one. Our nearly useless golden age is almost about half over now.
550BC: Egypt declares war on the Zulu, of her own decision. I suppose having Shaka's bare back staring at her, him with all his offensive units in our territory, was too much temptation. All the Zulu units turned and headed home to fight her off.
The Iro's have been contacted by the other AI's. Egypt how has about twenty towns, and this game is in dire shape. I did all I could with the luck I had, but sometimes it doesn't go well.
On the positive side, no cities were lost, and not much immediate threat of that. Production we put into military has been wholly wasted (spent) but our production base remains intact for the moment. There is one Zulu galley off our west coast which may be trying to attack our cold villages. I sent one spear down that way, but that front may need more attention. All our workers are down there, too. Still too soon to throw in the towel, but clearly we're on the ropes and taking body blows in the first round.
The sad truth is, I could have gone in and disbanded our army and have us further ahead than the results of my turn.
It was that bad. We really have no choice but to fight on. I suggest we go ahead and sneak Red Dot in there when we can, so we can support four more military units. There's nothing left of our army except defense, but we can build more units and see what we can pull out of the war. IMO, we simply cannot afford to cave in. If we don't at least gain control of our home peninsula, we'll have no hope at all.
Architect has a rough round ahead.
REBE2 - Aztecs - 550BC
- Sirian
710BC: Our stack-o-dozen is in position. The attack on the Zulu city commences. Uh...
We lose nine of ten combats.
That bears repeating. We lose NINE of TEN combats. Our entire offensive army is now kaput. Three jags, six archers gone, only one enemy unit slain, five actually promoted.
Five impis defending that city? At least that many. Then, get this, after all the ridiculous losses, I charge a spear unit out of Madrid to attack a warrior we couldn't even beat with an archer, who is about to pillage our wine tile, and he wins. Our whole offense achieves nothing at all, but look out! Our spearman is a real badass!
Believe it or not, I've actually seen WORSE combat luck than this at this stage of a game. One reason I shy away from this game plan in general: I don't care what anybody says, THIS random number generator has frequent long streaks leading to lots of very improbable results. You need a massive SoD, or the luck of the Irish, or a lot of reloading, to be SURE to win anything at this stage. That's one reason, I believe, why you see such DRASTIC swings in tournament games, where one guy's game has AI One crushing AI Two, but someone else's game it's the complete opposite.
In any event, any Deity game in which the player is boxed into a corner with no chance to get more than a couple of cities by peaceful expansion, there's really no choice anyway. If you try to run a peaceful game with too little land, you're doomed, so might as well see what you can do in the way of obtaining more land.
Also, the fact that the game sometimes poorly distributes the lux on small pelago maps, yet won't place civs on any land mass with no luxuries, can lead to a LOT of crowded situations, ala Epic Ten. One might think that civs should be scattered all over the islands, but that virtually never happens. Most of the time they are bunched, and the more I see that, the more fault I find with it.
A situation like epics four and nine, where the player is amidst a lot of space, you can do a lot with such a situation, even when the AI's grab most of the land. Situations like this are more dire.
690-570BC: I scraped together enough cash from pennies to buy an embassy with Egypt. Then Cleo wouldn't ally with us anyway, wanting the kind of money we could not even dream of coming up with, so we were on our own. Lots of troops came down from Zimbabwe, including some vet swordsmen. I had slightly favorable luck on that front, defending vs one sword, an archer and impi, and attacking and killing the other sword. ALL of the combat luck in the back lines was poor, though. One single impi pillaged a couple of our tiles and killed SIX of our troops, then limped home as a wounded but very elite unit.
Our jags won one of eight battles in which they fought, and the one victory was a defensive one. Our nearly useless golden age is almost about half over now.
550BC: Egypt declares war on the Zulu, of her own decision. I suppose having Shaka's bare back staring at her, him with all his offensive units in our territory, was too much temptation. All the Zulu units turned and headed home to fight her off.
The Iro's have been contacted by the other AI's. Egypt how has about twenty towns, and this game is in dire shape. I did all I could with the luck I had, but sometimes it doesn't go well.
On the positive side, no cities were lost, and not much immediate threat of that. Production we put into military has been wholly wasted (spent) but our production base remains intact for the moment. There is one Zulu galley off our west coast which may be trying to attack our cold villages. I sent one spear down that way, but that front may need more attention. All our workers are down there, too. Still too soon to throw in the towel, but clearly we're on the ropes and taking body blows in the first round.
The sad truth is, I could have gone in and disbanded our army and have us further ahead than the results of my turn.
It was that bad. We really have no choice but to fight on. I suggest we go ahead and sneak Red Dot in there when we can, so we can support four more military units. There's nothing left of our army except defense, but we can build more units and see what we can pull out of the war. IMO, we simply cannot afford to cave in. If we don't at least gain control of our home peninsula, we'll have no hope at all.Architect has a rough round ahead.
REBE2 - Aztecs - 550BC
- Sirian
smegged
Psi Cop
Wow, what a crappy unlucky thing to happen. We are definately on the ropes now, and NONE of it has been our fault. We are going to be Egypts whipping boy unless we grab some more land - but with no possibility for doing that, it doesn't look likely. On the upside, it looks like RBE-4 is going to start soon .
Perhaps if we do start RBE-4 someone could create a random archapelago map, and place most of the start spots on different landmasses. Obviously the person who does that would have to go last/not play and definately would not be allowed to reveal map information.
.Perhaps if we do start RBE-4 someone could create a random archapelago map, and place most of the start spots on different landmasses. Obviously the person who does that would have to go last/not play and definately would not be allowed to reveal map information.
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