RBE DSG2 - It's a Small World After All

[Rowain deWolf]

What a streak of bad Luck


but the good side is: for me as a Reader this game becomes a lot more interesting and i'm eager to seehow you will manage to survive and win this game (and i expect to learn alot) .


Good Luck


Rowain

 

[croald]

Originally posted by smegged
Perhaps if we do start RBE-4 someone could create a random archapelago map, and place most of the start spots on different landmasses.

I'd be willing to do that, for anyone that asks, for that matter. Am currently kind of cheesed off at the way the map generator distributes archipelago starts, myself.

 

[Zed-F]

sry, double post

 

[Zed-F]

Well, hmm. That does put a crimp in things, doesn't it? Well, we knew we had no choice but war since pretty much the beginning of the game, so not much we could do but pay our money and take our chances... too bad we came up snake-eyes this time. Hopefully, there is a next time.

I don't like the fact that Cleo has gone to war with the Zulu while we're not in any kind of position to take advantage of it. Certainly Cleo has enough of a production advantage to wax Shaka's butt, providing she can mobilize enough troops to the right general area and doesn't make any glaring tactical blunders. If she snags the Zulu heartlands before we can get in there (even just riding on her coattails!), it would be a heavy blow to our future chances of getting a decent amount of land.

On the other hand, even if we just manage to get control of our little peninsula, we at least have a possibility of pulling out some kind of victory (Diplo/Space) later, assuming some powerhouse civ doesn't decide to wipe us out. So, it's definately not time to throw in the towel just yet.

 

[T-hawk]

NOW do we have any sort of shot at prebuilding and snagging the Great Library?

(Guess what my favorite wonder is for Deity games )

 

[Gothmog]

Hello, I am a lurker who enjoys reading these DSG's since I don't get enough time to play myself! I must admit it is a bit of a relief to see you all have the sort of game I often have! I play at Diety and sometimes cannot get off the ground or get pushed around for the first half of the game. You still have a chance but it will be playing catch up for a long time, boy is that familiar.

PS I'd like to get in on a DSG at some point.

 

[croald]

Originally posted by Gothmog
PS I'd like to get in on a DSG at some point.

We currently only have four of five slots taken in RBE3, if you're interested (and have beaten Deity).

 

[Architect]

I got it. Will play tomorrow.

 

[Architect]

550BC(0) As I pulled the knife from General Sirian the Bloody's back his final words were "It was not my fault it was the RNG..." Excuses I say! I now must stand in his place and repair the mess he made of our great Aztec nation.



I veto the production of spearman and switch to jaguar warriors. I veto the Granary in San Antonio and switch to barrack at a loss of 22 shields. Desperate times call for desperate measures. This city won't grow until we get a harbor there anyway.. In four turns it can produce 2 more jags. I move our elite spearman to gaurd the jag in the open.

Iroqois have been drawn into the battle with the zulu by Egypt! The Zulu begin the great library. Man that's bad AI for ya. The zulu do not attack us instead move towards the Egyptians.

530BC(1) All five of our cities are making jags. I agressively attack the zulu killing 1 impi and 1 archer, reducing 1 impi to 1hp, losing 2 jags. The zulu will make peace...

510BC(2) The zulu threat is eliminated. They are not attacking us at all. 2 more jags.. Our SOD begins to assemble outside of Bapedi.

490BC(3) 4 Jags this turn. More SOD assemblage.

470BC(4) 3 Jags this turn. +8 per turn.

450BC(5) 3 jags this turn. We have 12 jags, 2 spearman, and an archer outside Bapedi.

430BC(6) 2 jags this turn.

410BC(7) 5 Jags pop this turn, we are -1 per turn so its time to attack.

390BC(8) One more turn...

370BC(9) I attack with this:

and we take Bapedi losing 9 Jags. We take out a leader and 2 settlers in the process.



A bit of overkill on my part here as we didn't need 12 of our troops but I wasn't taking any chances. Bapedi is whipped all to hell... I think we target Zimbabwe now. I send all our damaged jags to Bapedi to heal and the rest of our forces towards Zimbabwe. The zulu continue to try and build the Great Library.

350BC(10) More jags. Moving about 20 troops into position to take Zimbabwe. Don't take any chances. Be patient unless Cleo is around. Build roads upto Zimbabwe and Intombe to speed the troops to the front(s). I would just keep cranking the jags until our land grab is done and the Zulu eliminated. Looks like there might be a place for another fish city north of Bapedi.

350BC

 

[T-hawk]

Wow, nice recovery.

I don't suppose we have a chance of letting Zimbabwe finish the GL for us? Maybe attack Intombe first?

And our golden age is about to end, which could leave us in a financial pickle...

Got it, will get to it sometime today.

 

[Architect]

They "restarted" the great library 4 times during my turn so I think they keep picking it and then changing their minds. I doubt they will finish it before another AI.

Unless Cleo has softened the defenses of Zimbabwe you'll have to weed through 5+ defenders. Bapedi had 3 impis, 1 archer, and 1 warrior. That attack and capture of zimbabwe should get us back under the unit count so we won't be in the negative, give us 4 more free units and put us in position to take Ulundi.

One option would be to make peace after taking Ulundi, get what we can out of Shaka and then hope that Cleo and the Iroqouis don't destroy him before the twenty turn peace treaty expires. This would be a bit risky, but with our ability to blockade the land path to intombe they would have to land an amphibious assualt big enough to fight through a Deity city defense. I don't think they are capable of doing that with galleys.

 

[Zed-F]

I vote no on holing up on our peninsula after capturing Ulundi. We need the fertile ground and access to fresh water we can only get by capturing the Zulu heartlands.

Incidentally, the granary in San Antonio was a placeholder for a harbour. But, I haven't seen any indication that we've purchased mapmaking yet, so it's not a big loss.

 

[Architect]

The zulu have 4 cities left, one which is not visible on our map. The zulu heartlands are Zimbabwe and Ulundi. Everything else is Egyptian territory now. If we capture Zimbabwe we will have access to fresh water.

The city on our penisula is Intombe which I think we should leave as it will be the final capital of the zulu soon. Then if we can protect it for 20 turns we can take it without damaging our rep and acting "honorable" in the process.

 

[T-hawk]

I think our best bet is this: Wait for all the troops from Bapedi, capture Zimbabwe first. Then, if we have enough left, go for Ulundi. Leave Intombe; it can wait, and it will ensure the Zulu don't get wiped out before we have a chance to get peace concessions from them.

Inherited turn: Bapedi's citizen assigned to work, Teotihuacan assigned to the wines tile.

330 BC: I spread out the jaguars around Zimbabwe's food tiles to prevent the city growing to size 7 before we can attack it.

Interturn, an archer attacks one jag and loses.

And Cleo captures Ulundi! Well, that makes it obvious what we need to do. (Is it dastardly to form a blockade within Zulu territory to block Egyptian units? )

310 BC: Workers complete a road to the edge of Zimbabwe's radius. Five jaguars from Bapedi move outside Zimbabwe. I have 24 jaguars available to attack next turn. And, um, Egypt somehow has a sword and a chariot near Intombe on our peninsula! Must have sailed there.

Interturn, I watch another Egyptian boat land units near Intombe. America completes the Great Wall.

290 BC: This is it. The grand assault on Zimbabwe begins. 24 jags and one spearman can attack.

Lost 10 jags.

It would take about another 6-7 turns to get enough military over to assault Intombe, and by then Egypt will probably capture it. So we dial up Shaka.

He should be conceding everything he's got for peace, but he won't. It looks like I can only get about 2 techs! So, what to take, what to take. Well, the reason the techs are so expensive is because we only know two other civs. But I can only get one contact, or I can get Map Making which will get us at least one contact and probably more.

So, our inflexible demands are Mpondo and Map Making. I can't get a contact along with those, nor can I get the World Map. What I can get is Philosophy, a worker, and 27 gold. Peace is made.

Mpondo turns out to be a useless joke of a city. I was hoping it had a lux or something. Well, maybe it has coal. At least it's more unit support; we're now at 32 allowed, 35 total.

Tenochtitlan immediately whips a galley (I had swapped it off jag last turn and it had 10 shields in the box.) Madrid swaps to settler to fill in the old dot south of Tenochtitlan. The fishing villages start harbors, of course. Zimbabwe starts a temple.

Heh, we control the Oracle without even having the tech to build it!

Zulu will pay us 1/turn for an ROP; may as well take it.

Interturn, an American galley sails by.

270 BC: Our galley sails out and finds the Iroquois. Both of these new civs are slightly behind Egypt on the power graph, and have no deals we can make with them.

Interturn, Egypt destroys the Zulu. smoke: ! I should've thought to pay the Zulu gold-per-turn for tech. That doesn't hurt your rep, right?)

250 BC: Whip the harbor in San Antonio. This is so we can start trading our wines.

Interturn, Egypt moves three war chariots from outside Intombe next to Teotihuacan. Are they just passing through, or attacking?

230 BC:

Trade Wines to Egypt for Contact with China and Iron Working. Surprise, we have no iron.
Trade Wines to America for Literature + Mysticism.
Trade Literature + World Map to China for The Wheel + Territory Map. We do have two Horses!
Trade World Map + 10 gold to Iroquois for their Territory Map.
Trade our last Wines to China for Mathematics.
Pay Egypt 6/turn for Furs to replace the Wines.
Trade 185 gold to Iroquois for Polytheism.
Trade Polytheism to China for Code of Laws. (A typical buy-one-get-one-free tech deal.)

Our Golden Age ends. I start a minimum-science run on Republic. Egypt already has it, though.

Interturn, Egypt's chariots fortify but don't move...

210 BC: Whip temple in Zimbabwe. (Surpisingly, the city didn't have any whip effects when we took it over.)

Interturn, Egypt demands 21 gold, and of course we pay. Their chariots go on by.

190 BC: We continue bringing irrigation home.

170 BC: zzz

150 BC: Bogota is founded two squares south of Tenochtitlan, putting us neatly at 36-of-36 allowed units.

We have a spare Horses but nobody needs it.

The two libraries are prebuilding for either aqueducts or marketplaces; whichever tech we manage to beg, borrow, or steal first. We also need a government tech when we can get it. Everybody but China has most of those techs, but only got them in the last couple turns. China's as far behind as we are.

But we're definitely back in this game, baby!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-aztecs-150bc.zip

 

[T-hawk]

Things to consider -

Another city two squares south of Teotihuacan.

Selling the barracks - we aren't going to build more units for a while, we're tight on cash, and they're cheap to rebuild.

A mass Jaguar upgrade to attack Egypt, eventually.

Also, I forgot to assign Bogota a grassland tile; please do that.

 

[Exsanguination]

Interturn, Egypt destroys the Zulu. ( ! I should've thought to pay the Zulu gold-per-turn for tech. That doesn't hurt your rep, right?)

Bah, I'm back lurking again . If I am not mistaken, yes that is a rep hit. I believe itwas Sullla's Epic 4 game where a civ he had deals going with was destroyed and he got the wrong end of the stick in the end... Perhaps someone should confirm this.

btw - way to bring yourselves out of such a hole! I probably would have given up...

 

[Sirian]

Attacking Zululand was one thing. Attacking Egypt would be a whole other matter. We managed to take two cities with a Jag rush (good move by Architect), but they were two cities lightly defended because all the spare units ran off to fight Cleo. Getting Egypt into the war on our side was (IMO) always the key to victory there. Whether she would have attacked Shaka anyway (or him attack her, with his usual ) we don't know. As badly as my turn went, it DID cost the Zulus some units, and a lot of position, and Egypt ended up in the war. That, and only that, made the recovery possible.

There would be no such help vs Egypt. Her full might would come down on our heads, and even if other AI's joined in, their little shiploads would take time to arrive and would not much pester Egypt anyway. In LOTR1, we managed to survive wars from rather hopeless positions by way of having the two powers on our continent at one another. Without that particular dynamic in play for this situation, I believe it would be unwise to challenge her. We'd be looking at trying to gather the cash to upgrade Jags at 40g per, before she could get pikes. Not going to happen. Any other plan is even more unlikely.

The remaining AI's all seem to have their capitals on different land masses. That makes it highly unlikely any of them can wipe one another out (other than Egypt wiping us out). Now that we have a half-decent chunk of land, I urge that we move to make the most of it: park our units, train a pack and a half of workers, and push our cities as far and as fast as we can. Any other land we can grab should be grabbed, even if it's inhospitable.

And no, don't sell the barracks. It would take 80 turns at 1gpt to amass the cash it would take to rush the barracks back into place. We might be spending 5gpt on them, or whatever, but "they're cheap and easy to replace" doesn't add up for a fishing village that only pulls in 4spt and only if running break even food. And center cities are more urgent to defend. If we do squeeze out any new units, we don't want them to be regulars. Aren't we going to build some horsemen in there? The amount of gold saved may seem like a lot now, but as long as we have enough tech that our cities aren't sitting around with nothing to do, we don't need to be cashing in buildings just to speed our tech acquisitions by a miniscule amount.


- Sirian

 

[Zed-F]

How's about we put some cultural pressure on Intombe? We might be able to get a flip... If we have a lot of spare units left we might try a blockade and get a couple extra hlaf-cities up on that peninsula.

Mpondo might be sad now, but could be worth something someday. We shall see.

EDIT: BTW, got it.

 

[Zed-F]

Founded 3 more cities: Tlatelolco, Texoco, and Tlaxcala. Debated putting a 4th fishing village due east of Madrid to reclaim a wasted plains and some coast but was worried about adding more corruption to our 1st ring cities so I held off for now, feel free to build a settler and change this if you see fit. Otherwise not much happened; most of our other cities are waiting to grow bigger and several are having a hard time of it.

Bogota still needs to have a grassland, sorry I forgot about that one. Mpondo also was running an entertainer most of my turn but that's fixed now. Texoco has a silks under it but of course we need to connect it up to benefit; it's mainly there to put pressure on Intombe along with Tlatelolco. Both need temples asap, but especially at Texoco. More jags at Texoco to prevent it from flipping would help too, it has 4 right now.

Couldn't do much in the way of diplomacy as everything costs too much.

Save file:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe2-aztecs-50ad.zip

Pic of our position:

 

[smegged]

got it, will play tomorrow night