RBE5 - The Sea is a Harsh Mistress (PTW)

[falsfire]

Oh well, peace was a good thing for us, THREE CITIES!!! Wow, we must've hurt him good in his opinion to give us three cities.

"Got it", will play and post tomorrow.

I will probably play the game at what I seem to be good at, consolidating our gains and ensuring adequate defense to either deter or crush a future attack against us.

 

[JaxomCA]

I have patched PTW and started a new game as the Vikings, in that game it says the archer upgrades to berserk. In our save game, even after the patch, the archer still upgrade only to guerilla, so I guess it doesn't matter whether we patch or not.

I would definately go with the Republic. Monarchy will not give more commerce, it will increase our support fee and it will force us to keep 3 MP in most cities. We may not have much commerce, but what we have will be doubled in republic, and tripled once marketplaces are online. With marketplaces, the 2 luxuries we own, and the 2 we can safely import now, we should have no trouble with happiness for quite a long time. Once a reasonable defense force is assembled on the Celtic border, and we may already have enough units for that purpose, I would switch all core cities to building their marketplace and aqueduct. We still need some temples in the newly acquired cities to expand our territory. I would even skip the aqueduct if we get invention before they are built, most of our cities will not produce any more shields than they already are.

I think all the coastal cities on this map should be enough for a domination victory. As soon as we have invention, we should be cranking out berserkers and galleys and start hitting the foreign coasts, a la Viking. If we stir up enough trouble for everbody, keeping all AIs at war either with or against us, we probably can reach domination before any AI reach Nationalism.

 

[Charis]

Iteen, good turn indeed, and taking Baghdad and holding out for 3 MORE cities was a big winner!
Am I the only one who keeps forgetting this game is deity, as far as my outlook or seeing the results?

I agree with Jaxom on all counts -

- In this game, started under old bic, we won't have the archer to berzerk upgrade option
- Republic is likely best - perhaps only slightly so right now, but it will increase greatly with some marketplaces, lux, and higher population. We don't have a big standing army and could use the commerce boost.

I would consider rushing the temple in Baghdad, it's rather close to their capital and only has lvl 1 expansion tiles. That's like having about ten foreign nationals in the city. The catapults are liabilities in that city until our borders expand, they do *NOT* count as troops as far as avoiding flips, we would just lose them.

Domination by capturing all coastal cities, now that's different
We're REAL close to Zerks and a sweet Golden Age, guys. Ah, actually, that's another strong reason for Republic, to really juice up the GA. We can't prebuild Zerks but can prebuild ships.
We can use the Celts to promote our first wave of Zerks as we wipe them out.

As far as our amphib assaults, are you thinking to hold the towns (for domination victory, and need to bring several defenders on the ships as well) or to just raze everything off the coast (ships carry 100% zerks, and after a while we'll own the seas because there will be no harbor towns left)

Charis

 

[JaxomCA]

Because we are and !

Seriously, at deity it should be difficult to hold onto the cities we capture, specially near enemy capitols. We should be able to conquer Korea, Ottoman and Celts relatively easily. So there would not be a big need for defenders there. By that time, we should have built about 20-25 galleys. Regroup and sail west to capture as many Mongols cities as we can in one turn. That might be enough for domination.

Or we start with Genghis, declare war and wait 4-5 turns, send 14 zerks, 3 pikes and 3 settlers on 10 galleys. Break 3, claim the land and make peace, hopefully recruiting Genghis to fight the Celts. This gives us a foothold in Mongolia, so a couple of galleys can start moving pikes to that island while we send the zerks to conquer Celts, Ottoman and Korea in that order. From there evaluate what is needed for domination.

If we start with Mongolia, it might be a good idea to ally with Spain and Korea against Carthage at the same time and keep that war active until we are ready to take on Wang Kon. That way, all AIs will be struck in wars which should slow down research.

Reading this back, I realize we may not have enough time to win before Nationalism is discovered. We need about 20 turns to prepare our strike force, about 10 turns to get a foothold in Mongolia and somewhere between 30-50 turns to conquer the 3 others. It is likely Korea will be in the Industrial Ages by the time we get to them unless we do a really good job at screwing up everybody's research. At this point, the Mongols and Carthage are the tech leaders and Korea is not far behind. So we definitely don't want Korea to talk to the Mongols and Carthage.

Whoa! Quite long-winded

Nah forget all this. Pillage, raze, destroy

 

[falsfire]

350 AD [0] - Change Stockholm's entertainer to tax collector, they don't need the extra happiness there. Change Baghdad's tax collector to scientist to keep our min science running thru the Anarchy.

360 AD [1] - The Mongols are building Leo's. Otherwise, zzzzz.

370 AD [2] - We learn Engineering, as both Korea and Mongolia have it. Just now I remember we have the Great Library, and the one taxie I changed to scientist cost us 2g. We emerge into a Republican government, and Korea completes the Hanging Gardens in Seoul. I change Bergen to build a Temple as w/o Military Police, it needs that to keep it happy. I spend 116g to hurry the pikeman defender in Gergovia (undefended). 20g upgrades Oslo's vet spear to a pike. 76g gets us a spear alot sooner in our remote island colony of Agedincum, since it has no defenders either. I change Trondheim's orders to build marketplace. I then spend 196g and 236g on Medina & Baghdad's temples. We need these suckers in order to have even a shred of culture in these cities...our treasury is now down to 31g, sorry guyz, but we are making 30gpt so it'll come back soon, 'specially with some new marketplaces online soon.

380 AD [3] - Oslo builds pike starts pike...Mongols cascade to (but do not complete) Leo's, probably in whatever city they were building the Hanging Gardens in.

390 AD [4] - Damascus finishes a pikeman, starts another. I u/g the spear in Trondheim to pike, it will go with the pike from Oslo to Gergovia, to give it three pike defenders. Gergovia is, however, still in SERIOUS flip risk. The galley to get there will have to cross through alot of Korean and Celtic waters, so rather that spend what seems like futile effort to garrison a city that's probably going to flip, I reneg on that decision, and will send the pikes over to some of our other formerly Arabian colonies.

400 AD [5] - zzzz...

410 AD [6] - zzzz...

420 AD [7] - Reyk Pikeman-->Pikeman. Our borders pop at Medina & Baghdad, giving us the full 21-tile control around those cities...for now. I veto my own temple in Bergen in favour of a Marketplace. NONE of our cities can grow past size six w/o an aqueduct, for now we can garner an extra happy face by placing a market, which will also get extra income to offset the cost of a marketplace, whereas the temple will only get us a content face, and cost us money.

IT - Brennus is kind enough to move his horses he's been displaying to us out of our newly expanded borders, without me even having to ask. Awww...
Ottomans want to trade territory maps. I instead trade him our WM +11g for his WM, to see a bit more of the world around us...

430 AD [8] - workers work, move the two pikeman shipped down from above onto the hill which is now our territory near Baghdad.

440 AD [9] - zzzzz...

450 AD [10] - an uneventful last turn. Birka cannot stay happy w/o a specialist, but starves with one.

http://www.kaejae-worx.com/~devin/civ3/rbe5/rbe5-450AD.zip

 

[Charis]

preEdit -
Looks like I'm up, as it's before Sunday.
A good turn falsfire, now you're up in RBP1

Marshall, you *DID* do something different in this time on the upload, something I suggested earlier -
you used lowercase letters, .sav instead of .SAV - I think that may have been the problem
---

Looking over the state of the nation, things are pretty decent.
Kudos to Falsfire for flip prevention at pivotal Baghdad.
Our GL is active, we hope to get Invention and/or Gunpowder before
education. The world is all at peace (can't let that stay!)
Our mil is weak to Mongols and Carthage, avg to Celts and Korea,
strong to Spain and Ottomans. 43 units, of a mixed of things.

Basically, it's time to get the boats ready that will carry our
proud zerkers to victory! Once we get a few shipful's, the Ottomans
seem rather weak, with a fair amount of land. The Celts of course
will be primary targets, and Korea under early consideration too.

[0] 450 AD - The production orders look real good, I keep most and make
the following changes, mostly just items of 'preference.'
I turn a taxman into a scientist. Trondheim change from horse
to galley, Oslo galley too. (Regular transport are ok, when covered
by vet escorts later, so that the latter get targeted)
Reykjavik switches from Pike to courthouse. I put our tiny barely
defended towns on walls before temples. Birka I take off
starvation diet, shifting a mountain tile to the sea.

[1] 460 AD - Oslo starts harbor.
[3] 480 AD - Carhtage starts Sistine.
Midturn - Celts ask to renew the dye trade. If we would HAVE Zerks ready
to storm in 20, I would avoid making a deal with them, but I'm not sure.
See, something else happened this round, Carthage landed a boat with two
mil units RIGHT next to our small city of Agedincum.
Anyway, I don't want to lock our options, so I pass on the deal.

We master the secrets of Theology, and... Invention!!!! (Koreans and Mongols)
The mighty Vikings start producing five Berzerks. (Most will take a WHILE)

I look at Agedincum. Their best units are... a warrior and a merc?! Our
spear might actually fend them off if they do attack?! Maybe the new walls will
hold? No need to flush money down that drain. We'll see what happens.

[4] 490 AD - Midturn the Koreans declare war on the Ottomans, and... no surprise,
the Carthaginians declare war on US! Their numidian comes after us and...
dies! Alas, we're 1hp, and the warrior finishes us off. The walls killed
the NM but didn't save the city. It's autorazed I think, so what did they gain?
Wait, it's NOT razed?? Did it have culture from the civ we got it from?

This was a case where I ususally buy a tech or two for heavy gpt when I see
them smelling blood, but Carthage had NOTHING to buy.

Hmm, I see a brown ship near Geogovia. But vs a walled pike, if he has no
stronger troops, he might not win there. I must say, I'm rather tempted to
rushbuy a Zerk down there, just for punitive value!

Hmm... that would set off our GA now!? Isn't getting good pre-production
before a war better than only starting to see better production once you're
in the thick of fighting. We can use the phantom war with Carthage to take
a GA since we're in Republic, and use it to crank an invasion force for
our next 'real' war. If Celts get out of line they might see action sooner,
of course. We rush the Zerk in Geogovia.

[5] 500 AD - Carthage did land there, with two warriors and a horse!
Here we go... SPLAT! It's Golden time! Oh, and if you were worried that
we made a regular zerk with no rax there, don't worry, he's now a vet!
Trondheim is getting 23spt now. In counterattack, the pike gets an easy
double victory over the other two and becomes a vet also. Now Georgovia's biggest
threat is a flip. Now that it's grown in importance, and with +95gpt income,
it merits a quick temple then rax.

Midturn - Carthage drops off 3 more *Warriors* in front of the zerker. It's
like waving raw meat in front of a pit bull I tell ya! These clowns are going
to promote us to elite!

Also, we learn the secrets of Gunpowder through our library. Do we have salt?
Yes! On the hill outside Damascus! That's it! Who lacks it? The Celts, who
also lack Feudalism and Engr. The Koreans have salt, but no gunpowder (hmmm...
that might be an opportunity our next leader wants to consider?!)

[7] 520 AD - Korea wants to stop our dyes trade. Well, ok Wang, if you want no
active treaty with us, let that be on YOUR head!!
At Trondheim, to speed up Zerk production, after one turn we swap to a 30 shield
galley, buy finish for 28, then swap back to Zerk. So one gets made every 3 turns.
We're doing a ton of tile swapping each turn to get the most out of our cities.
Finally, we buy Georgovia's rax for about 70 gold.

[10] 550 AD - Ten turns so soon! Thoughts for Jaxom

- NEXT turn, put Mecca back to zero growth, with the deficit he's running
this turn the Zerk will come out in two.
- If you're feeling like fighting is best, by all means declare war on Celts,
either now or in about four turns when THREE Zerks are ready near Mecca.
- If you're NOT, swap zerk production to courthouses, aqueducts and harbors and
use the bonus GA production to kick up our infrastructure
- Pike to musket upgrades are pricey, 60 gold (I looked at for Georgova)
- No one has Education, Mongols have Chivalry (Keshiks), so that's our likely
next tech out of the Library. Wouldn't Chemistry be nice after that?!
- We have three empty galleys at Trondheim and Bergen and one near Celts and Baghdad
There are 3 Zerks in Trondheim ready to rock! We're kinda VERY short on spare
defensive units however. For amphib assaults razing sounds good, capture on
Celts and just plain wipe them out to kill flip chances, they have NOTHING
to offer us for peace this next war coming up.
- We have NO active trades, all is up for consideration
- I was going to say, hurry on Celts before they get Feudalism, but they're iron-less
- Carthage won't talk yet. Let them land more on our shore for us to promote on!
And if anyone else wants a piece of us, tell them to come get some!
(Hmmm, keeping one Berzerk home, centrally located on our island, is probably
good to deal with such AI actions)
* Consider a preemptive anti-saltpeter strike at Korea. An amphib invasion at
Namp'o would do it! Three-four zerks and two muskets would take and hold the
city. It's got their only salt! That's three ships worth. In fact I just now upgraded
two muskets, and sent a spear down to cover Trondheim. You could be sailing to
Namp'o the round after next with four berks and two muskets!! (Rush a zerk next round)

I think you'll have fun this turn!

JaxomCA <-- Up, 10 turns, if before Sunday/has time
Architect <-- Out until Sunday
Arathorn <-- Out until Monday
(I wouldn't zip it past here, too much going on)

Save file 550AD

Good luck!
Charis

 

[Charis]

Now that history has advanced several centuries, I thought I would go back and answer the question that plagued us, what would have happened if we stuck with our Mongol alliance and (Charis) didn't break the deal? Then we would see the implications of JUST the two sneak attacks...

270 BC - Same as before, but we do NOT make peace with Celts...

Midturn, four or five NEW units come charging out of Medina, to
join the six in the field. They take Damascus without even getting through
half of their stack. We have but one spear left on the island, and we hope
to mount some kind of defense.

230 BC - We get one more spear to Mecca, found on incense hill and get a
sword there. Midturn we lose one spear immediately, then see the other hold
on and promote to elite vs 3-4 units. Alas, another 4-5 fresh units move up
into position for next turn! We empty out Oslo and Trondheim to try to save
our toehold. One different dice roll and Meccas was easily lost.

210 BC - We survive another counterattack round, and see seven units ready next time.

190 BC - Our defenders were all elite, but not enough of them. Celts capture
Mecca, with a stack of four yet to attack. They move towards "Toehold"
The very road network we built to save ourselves is used against us.
Toehold is autorazed, and the island falls.

110 BC - Koreans start Great Library. With cash flow problems, we can wait a few more
turns to research it ourselves.

90 BC - Celts offer peace for free. In this alternate universe, we don't
break the alliance with Mongols and will let 10 more turns go by.
Several folks start the Great Library now.

50 BC - Alesia of Celts finishes Great Wall.
30 BC - Celts land a galley and attack Trondheim! We slaughter them in counter.
10 AD - Ottomans and Celts come to peace. Mongols and Spain come to peace.
Two more rounds of treaty left... Spain is not doing too well...

30 AD - Midturn leading up to 30AD, ** Mongols and Celts come to peace **

* The Mongols BREAK the treaty with ONE turn left to go!! *
(That too, makes me feel better )

The Celts will no longer take peace for free, now that they just face
us and Korea. He wants no less than Oslo!! We offer our whole treasury, not enough!

50 AD - Celts and Koreans came to peace 8-\

90 AD - Hanging Gardens complete, Korea starts SunTzu!
150 AD - Celts land TWO galleys at Trondheim, all horses. We mow each one down,
and take no losses. Now will Brennus talk? No!
260 AD - Koreans start Sistine. Then they demand tribute from us!! We pay, for the test.
280 AD - Lovely, the Mongols demand tribute too! (I'm really starting to like that we
backstabbed them now!) We pay 20g.

Who will trade with us now? Looking to buy Polytheism, we can give Gpt deals to
*EVERYONE* about 11gpt. Even Celtics will take gpt as part of peace deal.
So the PAIR of sneak attacks had no effect on gpt trades.
But ask for a RoP? Mongols say can't be done (may be too pricey), Spain and Ottomans
will give one, but expensive! Celts never, Korea never.

310 AD - We still get the Great Library in this timeline, with next turn: Code of Laws,Poly,Republic,Mono,Feud,Engr,Theo,
and... Invention!

Conclusions-
- The Mongols are sonofabiscuits who got no worse than they deserved
- A broken alliance is *very* serious to all AI's, who will take no gpts trades or very heavily discounted ones. (What we don't know is what no sneak attacks plus one ally break will do, however)
- We really had no chance to hold the Arabian island, even though Brennus didn't know this and would pay for peace after the capture of Damascus. Specifically, if I didn't make peace we got kicked off the island
- The acknoledged was allying with Mongols in the first place. They couldn't sell iron because there was no pathway until Astronomy, when Celts would be gone.
- The AI treatment you get in subsequent deals is probably quite appropriate for non-exploit 'dastadrly' play. We got a nice gain from our three actions, but will pay for it a good chunk of the game. Then again, we're Vikings and can use the "Pointy Stick" approach to research!! When is the last time you were in such good shape for military action in 550AD in Deity?!? In a SG, as long as players have common expectations for allowable actions, there's should be no prejudice against bad-boy attitudes and actions (short of exploits we all avoid without saying)

Anyway, I hope this gives us some more data to work with...
Charis

 

[JaxomCA]

Looks like Korea will not take our dyes for anything, short of giving it to them, I am tempted to do so. We have a high chance of seeing AI alliance VS us at this point, might as well have them break deals in the process. I will take some time to think about the situation, suggestions are welcome

My current plan is to send the galleys to capture Verulanium and Alesia (and the Great Wall), while the ground troops in Arabia capture Richborough and Lugdunum. If I grab a leader, I would save it for a quick forbidden palace in Entremont or make a MI army so we can build the Heroic Epic.

The Mongols and Carthages are too strong, this will be a problem later on. I don't think we can get a domination before the Industrial era at this point, nobody wants to ally vs anybody at any price

 

[Charis]

Bah, man, you're not talking like a Viking,
but like a Frenchman!

We have the DOMINANT uberforce in the game in our hands straight through to Mil Tradition! Carthage is too strong??? Six warriors, a Numidian and a horsemen, the very best THEY can muster, lie dead at the feet of our now elite units!

*GIVE* Korea free lux out of fear??!
Take it to them, and snag their saltpeter!! Without that they can
do NOTHING!!! With your plan the Celts will probably be nearly gone by the end of your turn, and by the mid-end of the next players turn we could be assaulting Namp'o. The question is... will they have gunpowder by then? If so we've goofed tremendously. The Celts have no iron and no salt and no hope, whether they're killed now or 15 turns from now. Factor that in.

Anything that dares land on our shore will get taught a lesson at the pointy end of a big axe! Keep one or two zerks home, at points where they could hit any spot in one turn, to rebel any such nonsense.

Let the AI's ALL declare against us and get involved in nonproductive wars where all their shields get slaughtered. On Pangaea, without the UU, this would be cause for concern. On this map, with our strength... bring it on!

We need to hurt several civs before Industrial era. Even after that, our Zerkers and cav will work through Replacement parts. Even right before then they will be helpless against amphibious city attacks.

Your war plan sounds good though - on taking it to the Celts. Consider rushing a musket in Georgovia if you do that. Timing may be best in about 3-4 turns when the Zerks at Mecca and Medina and one other spot come out. Whatever turn you do, looking at the silly Celts standing in the open, you'll gain 2-4 workers and kill four or more horses on the very first round.

Allies?? We don't need no stinkin' allies, we're !
Charis

(PS I'm coming off a deity victory where I had a pathetic and unprepared military, decided not to cave in for a change to a tribute demand, and ended up kicking the AI's rear so bad I was in shock, so if I sound too boisterous, forgive me, and perhaps other teammates will chime in and tone me down!! )

PPS I'm VERY curious to hear other input on short-term thoughts for war, as I wonder if I'm blowing here or making sense

 

[JaxomCA]

Charis, when I said strong, I meant economically. They have many size 12 cities in mostly improved lands. Our only potential trading partner at this point is Korea. Ottoman, Celt and Spain are pretty much out of the race at this point.

I think I know what you mean about kicking deity AIs butt. In my current solo deity game playing as the Ottoman, I had an even drier start than we have here, 4-5 grassland, many hills, many mountains and a whole lot of deserts to share in 4 cities. On top of that, Babylon settled 1 turn before me on the only luxury in sight. Would you believe that I saw red? Well by 600 AD, I have conquered Babylon, reduce Persia to a couple of size 1 towns on remote islands and I am the tech leader. I have built from scratch Leonardo and Sun Tzu and I have rushed Sistine with a leader. Actually, I own all the wonders but the Colossus, and both GL. Is it just me or did something bad happen to the AI under PTW?

In any case, my turn is done. Most will probably not like what I did, but I did it in true fashion!

550 AD to 640 AD

Once again, Lord Jaxom takes the reign of the Viking fate. Upon his entry in Trondheim, the city of Stockholm immediately revolts, remembering his heavy whip hand. While contacting his good old friends, he finds that the whole world dislike the Viking spirit, shame on them! A short meeting with the generals reveals that some warriors have had enough with the dry diet. They have gone berserk and are now wielding over sized axes. (I have no idea why I thought the berserks were carrying bows.) Still furious at Brennus for his insults about Viking's manhood, even more so now that Isabella refers to us as the "minnow men", Lord Jaxom declares war on the Celts. Another diplomacy call reveals that Wang Kon would agree to ally for about 75gpt, the deal is declined.

1. 550 AD The first war action sees an elite medieval infantry kill a horseman near Mecca securing our back lines. The Arabian troops are ordered to march on Richborough and an elite swordsman dispatch a horseman standing in the way. This battle inspired Healfdene to come forward and he immediately forms a medieval infantry army in Baghdad. The galley from Oslo is sent empty toward Baghdad to pick up Berserks being trained in Arabia.
   
   Inter turn: Many Celt horsemen ride up to Baghdad but don't attack.
   
2. 560 AD The new army attacks a horseman but he retreats, which comes as no surprise as we all know this is Brennus favorite tactic. The troops are getting into a better position near Richborough, dispatching another horseman, while reinforcement arrive. The 2 galleys in Trondheim are loaded up with 3 zerks and a musketman and sent south to Baghdad.
   
   Inter turn: An archer comes out of Richborough and dies on a medieval infantry, promoting him to elite. Hannibal is suing for peace but he wants 80 golds, I send him back empty handed. More horses move up in the jungle near Baghdad, many of them getting hurt passing by the MI army.
   
3. 570 AD Catapults send empty mugs at the horseman stack, hitting on target 3 times in a row. The MI army attacks the stack and kills a horseman without getting hurt. The newly promoted MI launches an attack on Richborough, kills a veteran spearman and inspire yet another leader, Inwaaer. He promptly moves back to Baghdad and motivate the citizens to build the Heroic Epic. Another MI kills the last defender and enter Richborough, promoting to elite in the process.
   
   Inter turn: The wounded horsemen are fleeing the scene in true Celtic fashion. New targets ride up to Baghdad. Many Celt galleys are seen on the sea.
   
4. 580 AD More mugs are thrown at the Celts, 2 out of 3 on target. A horseman is killed by the army and another is sent fleeing. Zerks are trained on the main land and galleys are ordered to carry them.
   
   Inter turn: All the horses move back to Lugdunum, many archers move up to Baghdad. A Carthaginian galley approaches the shores of Scandinavia.
   
5. 590 AD More empty mugs thrown, hurting 3 archers. The Viking troops butcher the archers, promoting a zerk to elite. A catapult is rushed in Baghdad.
   
   Inter turn: Korea and Ottoman make peace.
   
6. 600 AD Hannibal drops a body on our main land and a swordsman chop it to pieces. Hannibal now wants 60 golds for peace and I tell him to get lost. Richborough's resistance is broken, offensive troops move forward. A pike in Baghdad is upgraded.
   
   Inter turn: 8 Celtic horsemen moves up to Baghdad, many are hurt by the army.
   
7. 610 AD Ah! I can surround the horsemen, they can't flee. The cooks are already discussing the best way to prepare horse meat Mugs are thrown scoring 3 hits on 4. "Hubba! We want Hubba!" shouts the citizens of Baghdad, and he makes a spectacular appearance on the very first battle. The remaining 7 horses are crushed easily without loss. (The RNG loves me so far!) I have no idea what to do with the leader. Sun Tzu will not provide enough benefits to us. Sistine is tempting as its effect extends beyond a continent. A quick forbidden palace in Entremont would be nice. For now the leader entertains the crowd in Baghdad. We need friends, it is unlikely we will attack Korea soon and they have gunpower already, so I trade our dyes and 2gpt for their gems. This let me reduce the luxury tax to 0, bringing in 32 more golds per turn. The good news is, it looks like the gpt boycott is over. However, they want all we have for an alliance vs Hannibal or Brennus.
   
   Meanwhile, the Berserk force sails within striking range of Verulamium, defended by a single spearman. The town quickly falls to our mighty Berserks! From here we can already smell the malt! The population is ecstatic and preparations are made in Trondheim for the up coming party.
   
8. 620 AD Chivalry and Education pops out of the Great Library. Since I made a deal for luxury with Wang Kon, I drag him into the war against Hannibal, for chivalry (he doesn't have horses anyway), education and 16gpt. Oh! Now Hannibal is willing to give back Agedincum for peace Nah, I'll let the next leader decide how dastard we really are.
   A couple of horseman are upgraded to Knights.
   
9. 630 AD The Berserk force reaches Alesia and easily defeats the 2 spears guarding the Great Wall. This city comes equipped with a barrack, a marketplace, a harbor and an aqueduct. The smell of malt is getting stronger. The Arabian force march on Lugdunum. Oh great, most AI now have chemistry, it came 1 turn too late
   
   Inter turn: Carthages builds Sun Tzu, Korea builds Sistine, end of cascade next turn.
   
10. 640 AD Empty mugs are thrown at Celtic sailors sticking their tongue out at Richborough's citizens. The Arabian force gets into position to attack Lugdunum.

We can make peace with Carthages gaining back Agedincum but it would hurt our reputation again. I don't think it is worth it. It might be better to send a galley with a pair of Zerks to capture the city and maybe get chemistry for peace. Hubba is still in Baghdad, I believe he should be used to rush the FP in Entremont when we get the city. It might be a good idea to starve down Lugdunum before attacking. There are 4 catapults in the stack and more can come soon. There will be many troops ready on the next turn. The next leader may want to change them to infrastructure but I think we should take out the Celts before getting back to infra.

On this note, Lord Jaxom retires to his quarters, murmuring something about minnow man and malted liquor.

Here is the save at the end of 640 AD.

Edit: Fixed the link, sorry about that.

 

[Architect]

At least I have an Internet connection here at my Father's house... no civ3 until tomorrow.

Had to check in and see how the glorious vikings were doing. Looks like we are doing very good. I agree with Charis' assesment of our situation and we should do everything in our power to press our advantage. We should start generating leaders soon and the heroic epic remains a priority IMO. Glad to see that sneak-attacks don't affect GPT deals. That would have been stupid and something I would consider a bug or design flaw.

My only regret is we are a republic. One of these days I'm going to do no republic variant or something because we are all too addicted to it. We are going to find out real soon how pansy-ass our people are when it comes to war. Do everything you can to protect our bezerks with muskets...



I will take my turn after Jaxom sometime tomorrow.

Edit:

Wow, I was posting at the same time as Jaxom! Excellent turn sir!

 

[Charis]

Well that sure was an interesting turn Jaxom!!

And you're right, truly in nature, so all is good. Besides
even if I would have done a few things differently, how can you argue with *THREE* leaders?!??! (For example, I would have a made that army with two zerks, which can still fit on a caravel, rather than MDI. But that would have taken a few rounds to do and would have missed the extra leader)

I like the idea of FP in Entremont quite a bit, for Hubba Bubba.
Sistine? Good point that it's not just our continent, but... how many cathedrals are we going to have? FP is far better. Heck, I would take a Zerk army over Sistine. (The problem with armies is that if you fill them with all 3, there is no transporting them until you get a frigate much later, as the army itself takes one space, plus one for each component) Question - can an army of zerks amphib assault? I think so, but am not sure. A Knight army would not be bad either, even with just two units in it - 8 to 10 hp and defense 3, move 2.

Bummer on Chemistry's one turn lateness, but yes, let's research it by "Pointy Stick". It's funny that Carthage will give back the city for peace. That thought crossed my mind as a good stopping point for the war. Not that he can hurt us, but so that he doesn't call for a dogpile.

Shoot, too on Korean's quick gunpowder. Still, if they have zero cash to upgrade and don't make muskets in Namp'o *NOW* we still have them. An amphib assault on Namp'o takes the saltpeter that very turn, before they actually have any muskets. For a poor AI, there's a huge different between getting a tech and suddenly having the new units it allows. I'm afraid you were far too generous brining Korea into alliance. We need no ally vs Carthage and are stuck with war unless we want to break alliance (NO!). You made the same mistake of a useless alliance I did - I wish I gave myself this advice many years ago

Architect, your Republic comment is actually quite funny in my case. Up until RBP1 I don't think I've *EVER* played Republic in a serious game. Never! I was a huge Monarchy -> Democracy fan, or stay in Monarchy for warmongery. Then one of T-Hawks' Epic reports led me to try Republic. The income level is just staggering, and weariness is quite manageable with lux slider, even if you're at war a lot. Look at RBP1 in fact, we're oozing cash, and despite doing things like double-declaring war on two civs in one turn while already fighting a third, weariness is a non-issue. So until now, going "Republic" was a variant thing to do!

Way back in RBD6 SG, we stayed in Monarchy the whole game, and it went well, but our cash flow was just mediocre. The tech pace of the game lagged a bit.

Charis

PS - nice write up as well, Jaxom

 

[JaxomCA]

The reasons I made an alliance with Korea:
- while they are allied with us, they don't fight us,
- a dogpile is less likely when you have an ally,
- Hannibal might call for a dogpile on Korea, that would be a good thing IMHVO,
- it takes 10 turns to reach the saltpeter from Trondheim and cannot spare the offense to send there rightnow, so make that 15 turns,
- we will need Korea as a trading partner for techs if there is no all out war.

You are probably right that Korea should have been the first target for the Zerks, but they don't have malted liquor

I tried to get Genghis in the war but he wants nothing to do with anything we can offer, so we may have to declare on him to slow down research.

As for weariness under Republic, as long as we face spears and horses that shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, about the army. I wanted all the Zerks on galleys, I expected stronger resistance in the cities I took. MI were there and plentiful and easy to replace compared to Zerks. With all the fights we are going to have, at least in the short term, I figured the sooner we had the Epic, the better. The army proved quite useful at hurting horses on their way to Baghdad, I did not even know an army has a zone of control regardless of the units in it.

 

[Architect]

The save link is bad as of 8:55am CST 12/01/2002. Will get it once link is fixed.

 

[Charis]

The correct link (found by browsing the upload folder) is:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/rbe5-vikings-640ad.zip

Suggestion: do NOT type the name of the file in, it's too error prone.
After you upload, click to browse the New folder, hit the "save time" link twice and it's sorted by order of posting. Your new file(s) are at the top. Right click and "Copy Shortcut" then paste it into your post.

Charis

 

[Iteean]

Looks like we are in a solid position to dominate this game. Good job everyone!

The only suggestion I have beyond what's been said... What about an FP in Lugdunum? I think it would be more "central" to the Arabian / Celtic lands, and some Korean cities will be very close as well. I notice we have an army right above it, so we could use up the leader faster and maybe get another.

Not a major deal, but just a suggestion. Is this really deity?

Iteean

 

[JaxomCA]

Iteean, a faster leader will not be much use to us at this point unless we want to end the cascade now. I think there is only Leonardo left to build with the currently available technology and I am not even sure if it is still available. The next wonder we might want to build is Smith or Magellan, preferably both, and this is still many turns away. I suggested Entremont because if we build the FP with a leader, we may as well build it as far as we need. Besides, it makes for a better story, unless.... hmmm, yes, I can see an angle on a Lugdunum location.

 

[Architect]

640BC(0) I notice we can trade Theology or Invention to spain for 22g, 10gpt and their WM. I do this for theology now as they will never be a threat. I also trade Theology for 29g and wm to the ottomans. I switch all the celtic entertainers to taxmen. We are now at 108gpt. We lose Alesia to a cultural flip. Ouch.

650AD(1) We take Lug and lose quite a few units in the process. The mongols complete sistene.

660AD(2) Preparing to take Entremont next turn. WW takes its toll. I have to bump luxs to 10%.

670AD(3) The assault on Entremont fails. We actually lose a bezerk to a spearman without damaging the spearman at all.

680AD(4) Entremont falls but our army is reduced to 2 hps. Mid turn a celtic galley sinks one of our galleys losing a musketman and Bezerk.

700AD(5) The resistance in Entremont ends, i'm going to build the FP their now. Taking a flip risk but oh well. We retake Alesia and the Great Wall again.

710AD(6) Moving on Camulodunum. Entremont is desposed.. Bye bye FP, our army, a bezerk, and a musketman. OUCH!!!!!!!! I've always wished that armies would reduce the chance of flipping to zero but that's just a fantasy obviously. What a &*%$#(*# drag.

720AD(7) Moving on Entremont again.

730AD(8) We take Entremont again. We take Camulodnum. Printing Press has been discovered. We can trade ivory to the Koreans now but I wait until we secure the celtic cities. Carthage starts Copernicus.

740AD(9) Moving on Augustodurum. Trade is now opened up with Mongols, Korea, and probably Carthage. We can trade 3 lux for 2 with the mongols but I'm going to leave that to the next leader as we may want to attack the mongols soon.

750AD(10) We take Augustodurum and destroy the solid celts.

Well I got greedy and paid the price. Must say that's the worst culture flip of my entire Civ3 career. If that would have worked out we would have had two power centers to take on both Korea and the Mongols. Now we are going to have to make do with the forces we have near Korea and take on the Mongols with our troops from the homeland. I was trying to use up the leader in hopes I would get another one and of course that didn't happen either so now we are without a FP. I advise the next leader to look carefully over all build orders and the diplomatic options. I was so frustrated and pissed at the celts with these flips that I just went full force against them and ignored most everything else. I also see I took 11 turns, whoops, another sign of how pissed I was. I really really really hate culture flips.

750ad

 

[Iteean]

Ouch, those were a few bad strokes of luck there. I've always wondered if a city with an FP could flip, so I guess that answers that! Civ 3 games are always educational.

Can we build the FP again?

Architect, I can't seem find the save file in the uploads folder. Can you try uploading it again?

Iteean

 

[Architect]

Save game is fixed. Yes, you can build the FP again.