We're smack in the middle of a hot war with the Mongols, and some heavy
action on the Sistine city of Darhan. I think folks had envisioned a
raze and pillage campaign on many cities, along the coast, but a
beachhead approach was taken, that happened to bring a key wonder
into play! How to proceed?
First, Sistine is all-map not just one continent, doubling effect of
all cathedrals. How many cathedrals are we going to build? We can't even
IRRIGATE our core until electricity!! We currently have 0 cathedrals and
pay 0% on luxury slider. We have four lux available. The power graph shows
us in good shape, Mongols as top dogs, Carthage stronger than his puny
troops would suggest, and Korea also decent in power, although we laugh at
him.
Next I note that *EVERY* Mongol city except Barcelona is coastal.
A musket, two zerks and 4 cats in Darhan. *SEVEN* Zerks in galleys next
to Ta-Tu, three up North, and a few empty ships. Carthage and Korea are
up on tech. Mongols won't yet talk to us, but take two more cities
and he sure will! They have *14* offensive units next to Darhan, and
a few muskets for cover.
As I see it we do NOT need to dislodge them or counterattack, but to wither
the storm at Darhan, inflict as many losses as we can, and draw their
troops AWAY from the coastal towns we're about to hit. If we can force a
peace settlement on our turns, it doesn't matter if they have 100 offensive
units. So I think I'll pull the muskets off the mountains back into the city.
Thankfully we have a barracks there.
Several cities are in civil disorder or sad, so I put lux to 10%.
Also, our ship to troop ratio is actually slightly large, so I won't
likely make more after the one due in Damascus.
Reading Falsfire's report, it seems we want to use about five zerks
to take a town of size 12 (maybe six is more likely?) - if we've
drawn cities to "minimum normal defense", as few as four zerks. Expect
to see 1-2 lost and 1-2 hurt as well. So with about 12 uninjured zerks
we really have enough for 2 cities, 3 if lucky.
Here then is the goal - do not abandon Darhan yet, but pull back muskets
inside city. Do a *simultaneous* attack on 2-3 Mongol cities, actually
capturing them, and on that very turn, demand peace from Mongols, so
we don't really need units on hand to defend them.
Which cities and when? Could have 4-5 vs Almarikh in 3 turns,
could hit Ta-Tu immediately, and Choybalsan in 3 turns, with 9 zerks.
- This turn: Raze Ta-Tu. Let hurt zerks heal in Darhan
- Next turn: Move the settler onto Ta-Tu's old square.
- Third turn: Settle the city. Take Choybalsan and Almarikh. Demand peace for a price.
- Next campaign in 20 turns - declare war on Mongols and do one of these:
i) wait several turns, then on ONE turn capture Kazan, Dalan, Ulaan, Tabriz, Hoyd.
ii) that very turn attack and RAZE each of those towns. I lean toward #2.
- Do not defend the cities with many troops at all, ASSUME they will flip.
But do starve them down!
Will it work?? We'll see! Capture or raze Almarikh and Choybal? I'm still leaning
toward just razing Almarikh and Choybal, even though if taken same round we
could sue for peace and hold them with few defenders. But... there's just
no benefit. Too big a flip risk, plus, Sistine city and one "native" city of
ours are worth having, but need no more.
[0] 950 AD - We carry out plan above. We bombard out of Darhan, then Vs Ta-Tu:
- First vet zerk kills vet musket, loses 2hp. Second vet dies ineffectively,
- Third vet dies but does dmg, same for fourth. Four and five are elites and win.
- Now there's a 2hp musket left. We have to move up an extra zerk from a caravel,
who wins, but now there's a vet MDI left!! Crud! Crud! Crud!
- Deciding fortune favors the bold gentlemen, we take our LAST zerk, a vet,
badly injured from last round, the only guy who can reach the city in time,
and attack, hoping 6 att vs 2 def will prevail. It does, and we even promote!!!
The city gets razed!
Six workers and a catapult. Glad we have ships on
hand!
Ok, that one city took seven and we lost three zerks. Ouch! That doesn't bode
well for going after three cities, and we must scale back thoughts to two or even
one. Will the Mongols talk now? Nope! Ok, we'll raze one more if they insist.
To get our boys back to the Darhan barracks we've now got some ships in port.
All the injured guys sail back to Darhan - can they survive and heal??
The upcoming midturn is tense!!
-- Tense is not the right word. Sad. Disappointing? No... BRUTAL!!!!
We lost... all 3 muskets, all 5 zerks, 3 workers, 4 cats, and 5 ships,
losing Darhan and the Sistine chapel.
That's possibly the worst result I've yet had in Civ 3 8-\
They rolled us over. Stomp, whack, trampled. Actually, our defense was quite good.
We won 6 of the first 7 battles! They lost a total of 7 MDI, one Keshik, and
one sword. But then our muskets, now elite, were at 1 hp, and we lost almost ALL
the remaining battles as longbow after longbow, and MDI upon MDI, pressed
the attack. The only Zerk who defended worth a darn was the one who razed
Ta-Tu. The hero survived the round! Two victories even hurt!
Even we even held out this ONE round with one defender, we could cut our
losses, get the ships back out of the city, abandon Darhan. Ugh!
After they recaptured, you don't want to know what I saw next.
CAVALRY! Two of them, running around. We don't have the SLIGHTEST
prayer of holding ANY city.
This was a horrible debacle, but experience sometimes comes that way.
(Besides, the game almost has a theme now of several debacles!
)
Viking doctrine - ***RAZE*** the coastal cities, no matter what the
city contains. Falsfire was bedazzled by Sistine, and I too drank in
the illusion, buttressed by a seemingly reasonable plan that only
required I hold the city TWO more rounds, with seasoned muskets, a barracks
and several other defenders.
The other fallacy - that only a few zerks are needed to take a town.
I think the seven I needed is more likely normal, and that we got
lucky in taking Darhan with only 5. Finally, with a slightly more
spread out pattern of boats, we could have hit a second and third city
at the same time as Darhan - if we did really want to keep Darhan, or
any city, you MUST capture 3 cities on that VERY round, and it must come
not at the beginning of the war, but after enough turns he'll talk.
[1] 960 AD -- Plan B. Now what?
First, I'm glad one caravel actually couldn't reach Darhan.
Second, we didn't lose the settler, and one elite zerk, a catapult
and worker, and a lot of ships survived.
What's in the water? Four strong zerks and two quite injured. Back
on our coast 2 zerks, musket and catapult. We won't have another
ship of 3 zerks for about 4 more turns. So what we have accessible
just MIGHT be able to raze one more Mongol city. Darhan?? If they
don't leave six defenders there yes, otherwize Almarikh is a good
candidate.
Depending on the tech rate, we may or may not be able to get a good
solid invasion going before rifles, but chances aren't great. Even then,
7-8 zerks should be able to raze any coastal city, so a longer window
exists with somewhat lower effectiveness, way through infantry. And
the fact they have cav is irrelevant if we NEVER leave our boats.
The best thing we could do about now is to slow down the tech rate.
My original plan, don't go against Mongols, but Korea and Ottomans,
is looking more attractive in some ways.
No embassy still in Carthage?! I fix that... they have
*SEVEN* musket defenders, Colossus and Lighthouse, 19spt, 7 lux
(too many from us!!) and Magellan's is due in 9. Their commerce in
Carthage alone is obscene, and our own lux is fueling it. No wonder
they're way ahead on tech. I wanted to see if he could ally vs
Mongols for any reason, and no way. Ottomans will, if we give them
two lux, Banking and Astronomy. What? They don't even have GUNPOWDER?!
What on earth are we waiting for?! Spain will ally for Astronomy and
Banking. They're weak enough that wouldn't hurt, except... the Mongols
would eat their lunch and devour the whole continent. Heck, they probably
will anyway. I don't want to tie down our options for 20 turns with that.
In any case, I don't like the two Koreans standing on our land,
and if they balk, ending a deal that supplies them TWO lux's and
saves them a ton of entertainers doesn't exactly scare me. I tell
them to leave, and... they declare war. Fine, slow yourselves down.
Alas, we're in need of capturing some new lux. Looks at Korea...
We slaughter two MDI with zerks, both promoting one to elite.
A Mongol galley ended just short of our short, and since I assume
it's got troops in it, I attack with an empty caravel and win.
Going to get our leader down to Entremont for an FP there.
[2] 970 AD - Moving into position.
[3] 980 AD - Here comes a Korean ship towards Lugdunum.
Here we go... at Almarikh. Ouch first thing we see is a cannon
shot at us. Our vet zerk is hurt and loses to a vet musket.
Second zerk, vet, no cannon fire, hurts musket but dies.
Third, same. Fourth is elite, knocks vet musket to 1hp with
no dmg, then loses 4hp in a row then... wins.
Fifth lost, sixth won, seventh and LAST berzerk... WINS!!
Almarikh is RAZED to the ground, and several LARGE KEGS
of malted liquor from the holds of the ships are broken out
and imbibed in celebration! Of course, with razing comes
plundering - six slave laborers.
The ships must all now go home to drop off the laborers
as well as to heal the berzerkers. The sole brave berzerker
left on shore who did the razing, knows his fate, and is
quite comforable with it... he dies dreaming of Ragnarok!
(The Malted Liquor is sweet succor at this time)
The Mongols still won't talk. They're too giddy at recapturing
the sissy chapel. We'll be back, don't worry. It may take
a few turns, but you have no defense!!
[4] 990 AD - Oh my!!! Midturn, a cavalry rides UP TO the
brave bezerker and takes him for dead, so deep was his
slumber and so grievous his injuries. In the morning he
awoke, rowed out to the galleys just before they left,
and sails home!!! To a heroe's welcome!!
This is clearly an omen that all is NOT lost, that we
SHALL prevail!!!
Entremont rushes its rax to be ready to rush FP next turn.
[5] 1000 AD - That blue caravel lands a knight, MDI, and longbow.
Right near our knight, zerk and cat. HA!
Mongols will talk now, btw, and give peace for free. But no techs.
Must have been a 'ten turn' thing they wouldn't talk earlier?
[6] 1010 AD - Augustodurum sees a Mongol ship nearby. Shift some...
Korean's start Smiths.
[7] 1020 AD - Carthage wants to extend the peace treaty. No chance
to renegotiate it? Well keep the peace for now.
Mongols and Carthage start Smiths.
I regnegotiate our triple lux deal to Carthage. Were giving
17, 17 and 20gpt for the three. Now we get 27, 27, 28gpt.
Still, he's saving MORE than that in cash and production by
having SO many happy people. Our next leader should feel free
to either deny him, or trade for tech instead. Still, our
economy is poor and we could use that gpt!
With our FP now in place, I send the unused settler to a spot
near Entremont where a good sized gap exists. Speaking of FP,
our income has SHOT up almost +70 extra.
[8] 1030 AD - Several yellow ships seen now. They won't actually
coordinate a landing, now will they?? Another blue one looks due
to land.
Midturn we see a Korean cav across the shore. (Mutters something
about saltpeter denial). They do land a musket and longbow.
The Mongols land a single Keshik (?!)
[9] 1040 AD - We get one promotion but no GL.
Korea will talk now, and take peace, but I'll let next leader
choose that. I *like* the GL fishing when they land junk troops
for our elite zerks to eat! There are two caravels and soon
several zerks down near Damascus, for a possible trip to raze
a Korean city.
[10] 1050 AD - Midturn in fact BOTH of them ask for peace.
I deny and Mongols land two Keshiks, a cav and MDI in our core.
We scoff at them! A zerk, Knight and two MDI (recently upgraded
via warriors and horse btw) spill their blood!
Finally, time for Revenge at Dahlan - up come the caravels...
Our first three vet zerks LOSE.
Our next two vet zerks WIN.
Our last two elite zerks... WIN!!!
** WE RAZE THE STINKIN' MALT-INTOLERANT SISSY CHAPEL! **
[plasma]
Of course, since he was already willing to give peace, we
could have kept it. For 20 turns or until it flipped anyway.
But that just wasn't an option the intoxicated Berzerkers
would ever consider again! Pretty consistent, seven zerks
needed vs four musket defenders. If they had just one more
unit like a longbow we were screwed though.
We capture the same 4 catapults back, and 3 workers
To out next leader, we need a new vision. This turn we
had one failed vision then one borne of pure revenge!
We'll need to decide an overall strategy, goal on the
war with Mongols, vs Korea, how to slow down Carthage,
and if we can slip in plucking the low hanging Ottoman
fruit. Also, home defense is very weak and spread out,
in all cases I was lucky they landed where they did and
I could JUST get units there to attack them. You'll note
several units out in the open now, playing zone defense.
(Just saw Ottomans this round got gunpowder)
The Mongols will pay 280g for peace, not even close to
a tech. A rest-heal-strike on their southern cities
would likely be quite effective.
One last bit, *NOT* good - Carthage and Mongols are
now wearing Industrial era clothing. That means Rifles
soon if not immediately. It also means - if you can be
out of range/border the turn before you attack, then
move up to reach the city for amphib assault, it might
give them no time to draft or upgrade.
RBE5-Vikings 1050AD Save
Good luck!
Charis
PS Jaxom - I wish your post had been made *before* my got it!
The "Burn Sistine to the ground one!"
