Realism Invictus

[[Y]]

Because I imagine that it is not intended, as all other military units only consume shields? It can actually be useful at times since I have lots of food and am at my happiness cap, and I would love to have an option to do something like this with all production (maybe 50% surplus food goes to production for military units?) but if it's just one unit it feels like an exploit.

It's been this way for a while, and is intended. There are also other units that function the same way, such as the Levees.

 

[zantan]

That's good to know. I didn't think something like that would happen by accident. So what is the internal logic there? Are all generic units with no special combat modifiers treated like that?

 

[opelcity]

First of all I wanted to tell you that you've done a great job with 3.3. I love the new units, upgrade trees and especially the new science projects.

Two things came up that seemed a bit strange though:

- when playing large maps with a high number of rival civilizations (e.g. the huge and large scenarios) the unhappiness from "the world considers you a villain" keeps racking up to a point where my cities will shrink to the size of 1. Even when playing on settler and without p**** off too many of my rivals (only one out of 30+ Civs had the "red" face, the rest was a normal mixture of likes and dislikes), I got up to 20ish unhappy faces. I've only known that reaction when I was voting "never!!!" on UN resolutions, but in these cases the UN was far from being built.

- the second issue I ran into was with the legal civic "Traditional Customs". Whenever I choose that civ, it locks out every other legal civ for the rest of the game. In the game where the screenshot is from, I should have access to most of the other legal civics, but can only choose "Traditional Customs" and can't switch it with the world builder either. Happened with American, German, Egyptian and Russian civs so far.

 

[[Y]]

That's good to know. I didn't think something like that would happen by accident. So what is the internal logic there? Are all generic units with no special combat modifiers treated like that?

I think the idea is that these are more "homegrown" units, as in, civilian units joining the military force (hence why food contributes to their growth) and why they don't have any real "training" (are vanilla/generic) like other units might have.

 

[Endziol]

Thanks a lot for this great mod, amazing job from developers.

I have one question though.

Is Carthage unique improvement (Trading Colony - replacing Plantation) doesn't work or am I missing something? I have researched Trade tech and even Calendar, but I'm still able to build only standard plantation.

Edit: Just found the answer - unique improvement can be placed only on Dyes.

 

[Tabriz]

Until now I have played with only Domination victory condition ON and with Vassals OFF. I really like how rival civilizations behave in this case, but it is quite hard (and almost impossible for AI) to achieve domination victory. AI is really smart in RI and smaller civilizations are wise enough to unite agaist the leader.

Only recently I started to play with all (expect Time) victory conditions ON and I have a small observation. I think culture is somehow "excessive" in game in comparasion with "science". I have tested few games with AI autoplay and in all games Cultural victory is achieved earlier than anyone starts to build any component of spaceship (technological progress somehow lags - usually even by 2050 there is no civilization that have discovered all of the techologies).
P.S. I play (and have tested) with No City Razing option ON - so maybe that was an extra reason to make Cultural victory to come earlier, but still culture seems to be excessive in game.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

It's been a while since I played the previous version but from what I remember it used to be quicker to start up and play. I also have this issue wherein I start up the application, in RI, and when load a save or a new game, it tells me to restart the application (in RI, naturally). During restarting it also sometimes crashes when I load a save.

OK, figured this one out. We'll fix this for 3.31, but essentially it's a quirk of how Windows handles shortcuts. You can fix it yourself in your local copy. Right-click the shortcut and change

"E:\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod="\Realism Invictus"

to

"E:\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" "mod=\Realism Invictus"

It will no longer ask you to reload.

I'm currently playing my first 3.3 game and it is so good! I had before the 3.1 version and it is a vast improvement, especially the industrial system. Moreover I have some suggestions:
- economically I feel that it is easier than 3.1 ,probably due to the addition of some new building and the -25% off maintenance on despotism that helps a lot in early game.

Yep. Also higher happiness limits (compared to 3.1 at least). We felt early BtS versions were much too harsh and restrictive. Later on, though, is a different story.

- I know that you guys are working hard on addingthe revmod, but why don't add the barbarian civ mod (the one that make new civilizations appear when barbarians cities are developed enough)? I don't think it will be to hard to implement and it will make the gaming experience much richer

We'll see about it. It was supposed to be a part of RevMod integration...

- I like the civ transfer mechanic, but I think that it should work (at a reduce rate like 10% extra research) even with close borders. Mainly to reduce the tech gap in the early game and to simulate that there is still some contact between the civs.

For now we're trying to keep this mechanic very simple and transparent. It may be though that we'll expand it in future.

-the unit cost increase is broken at later stages of the game and it is unrealistic. While it works on the ancient age and more or less in the middle ages, once you reach the Renaissance and the industrial age, the main infantry gets really expensive, for not to speak about artillery. It also unrealistic because it doesn't represent the fact that if you build more , you end up building it faster and cheaper (the t-34 or any other mass produce tank for example). It also hurt civs with less resources, as they are limited to fewer units that end up getting really expensive. I suggest to scrap it altogether or to add a top cost for each units. When the unit cost reach this cost ,it stops going up. For example militia units could have it at 150% of the original cost, line infantry at 200% their original cost , knights at 300% etc,etc....with this solution, units shouldn't get ridiculous costs while it also make unit diversity a vital strategy

Maybe. The later units already have lower cost increases than earlier ones (at least basic infantry). Still, I think you are laboring under assumption that late-game armies should be significantly larger than earlier ones (which was indeed the case in vanilla Civ 4 and most other places) - while that is actually what we're trying to fight against. Also, as your empire expands, you should consider garrisoning innermost well-defended cities with token force (preferably irregulars) - then the unit costs won't creep up on you so much.

- I suppose it has to do with what I said above, but upgrade cost goes from absurdly low to absurdly high. I suggest the same as above

Yes, we'll definitely try to do something with upgrade costs.

-unique units should cost more if they lack the resource they should need. I was going to suggest that they require resources, but I think this is a more elegant solution. You can still build those winged hussars without iron or horse, but it would be much more expensive

An interesting suggestion. Many NUs already don't require any resources, so it would be a fair thing to do from balance PoV. Thanks.

-foundry (the replacement of the forge) should get a 5% with copper. If you lack coal but have copper,it reduces the number of hammers. And even with coal, it does exactly the same.

True. I was meaning to do something about it for some time now.

-great works shouldn't need for a fixes number of national buildings. If the city have the building required, it should be able to built it.small nations maybe not be able to build then because of this reason

I think those are only required for Prophets' Great Temples (by design - you can only build those if you have many cities with your religion; that's basically a reward for expansion) and Art Eras (where the requirements are generally quite low and I don't think should impede anyone). Scientific works and works of art don't require you to have more than one building.

-gunpowder units (line infantry) should get a bonus against cavalry. Fusiliers and, specifically riflemen should get a bonus against it. Of course, late game cavalry shouldn't be affected but only because it mainly figthed as a mobile infantry.

I think cavalry will then be rendered completely useless with advent of gunpowder units. While it lost its importance, it remained a vital part of armies at least till Napoleonic wars (and in classical cavalry sense too, not only as dragoons).

- riflemen should get at least a 50% bonus versus archers. The figths between the colonial empires and the natives shows that the rifle was much better than bows

Rifle is already much better than bows - rifleman is Str 16, while the best longbowman is Str 8 (and in many cases colonial empires faced what amounted to much less than RI longbowmen). Riflemen are already overwhelmingly stronger than any archery units, even without a bonus. Archers can only hope to match them in extremely favorable terrain, which I think is quite realistic as well.

-distintive units should still do their duty. To make it clear, the best medieval anti-cav of russia are probably the Bowman's or a level 3 dismounted boyar because their pikemen only get a 25% against cav, making pikemen almost useless as any other unit get their job done (on the matter, all the Russians units feel worse than the opposition. I know they cost less, but with the price increase the reduced cost feel irrelevant).

Russian pikeman (or rather heavy spearman, Russia almost never used pike formations) is a rather special case - it trades a lot of its bonus vs cavalry for a bonus vs archers, and is thus a more viable all-round infantry than a specialized unit (this, BTW, is a "hat" of many Russian units - they usually have lower specialized bonuses, while being more versatile; while they may not be so overwhelmingly superior in ideal conditions, it is much harder to exploit any particular weakness they might have too).

So in some cases, distinctive units serves somewhat different purposes than default ones (probably an even better example than you gave would be phalanx replacing swordsmen for Greeks, Persians and Egyptians) - though if you do the maths, Russian pikemen still have the best strength against charge cavalry than any other contemporary unit (though admittedly by a smaller margin than a normal pikeman; in Russian case in particular, crossbowmen are also a very viable option against them).

Civics:
-forced labor seem to me as a very weak civic. Sacrifice population at later stages is usually too costly , and the increase on pandemic reduce your population even further. It could get a boost.

I would like to hear others' input on this as well. For me, the ability to sacrifice population at the stage when food is so plentiful is quite strong.

-free comunards and working class feel too similar. I would prefer that the working class civic is more industrial center while the communards one is better for commerce.

Yep, I'm not 100% happy with how those feel as well. Maybe a change is in order.

-tribal union should reduce the cost for maintenance on cities(after all the cities would be practically self ruled) but reduce the cultural output and even the scientific one(due to the lack of a central government) .this would make it an interesting option for early game, as it makes expansion early but hurt your research on the long run

I don't think any tribal stage society ever successfully controlled large swaths of land. Tribal union is by design a bad civic to be ditched in favor of Despotism or Republic as soon as possible. Early expansion civic that you describe is Despotism - it has lower happiness potential than any other government civic, but reduced city maintenance.

-monarchy need a boost. I feel that despotism or republic are better most of the time

Yes, I feel the same.

-theocracy should have a bigger decrease at research, -5% is not significant enough.

Research is probably the most powerful thing in Civ. I think -5% is painful enough, especially since it doesn't offer that much in return.

- I feel that early civics could get more interesting . apart from paganism, the rest are really bland. Maybe some extra buildings would make playing as then more viable

Yes, at least in some cases you are definitely right.

Direct IP is best for greater than 3 peeps.

What he says. Remember that you need to switch to a different civ version in steam for that.

The Great Person event handler gets an error after a while, when playing Mayans. Presumably after they've ran out of names, and are supposed to create a realistic-sounding random name. The GP is created but with no name.

I couldn't reproduce this. Does it occur all the time? If so, could you enable logging and provide us with the logs of the error please?

Another bug.

The horse whispering event. It's supposed to become obsolete at Renaissance, and it will correctly no longer trigger once you have discovered Critical Thought.

But the completion event obsoletes at techs Nationalism, Printing Press, Astronomy, Arquebus... and University, which is a Medieval Tech. Changing these to Critical Thought, Arquebus and Shipyards (IIRC the first possible Renaissance techs) should fix it. (Changing the trigger to obsolete at these should also be done.)

EDIT: Aand the classic literature quest seems to suffer from a similar problem.

Thanks, fixed.

Turns out I can play with custom game as long I don't select settler difficulty, even though selecting settler difficulty doesn't cause crashes in play now.

All of this certainly has been the weirdest I've ever had to deal with a mod.

Yes, I could reproduce the Settler issue. This one is weird indeed. We'll have a look.

Thanks for a really interesting mod. I had a few concerns that I wanted to share, but then you came up with a patch that fixed essentially all of them right as I was learning the game. So good job and thanks!

One new thing that came up for me was that armored warriors now use food for production just like settlers and workers. Is there an easy way for me to fix this in the .xmls?

This is working as designed. The most basic (irregular) infantry can be built with food.

Two things came up that seemed a bit strange though:

- when playing large maps with a high number of rival civilizations (e.g. the huge and large scenarios) the unhappiness from "the world considers you a villain" keeps racking up to a point where my cities will shrink to the size of 1. Even when playing on settler and without p**** off too many of my rivals (only one out of 30+ Civs had the "red" face, the rest was a normal mixture of likes and dislikes), I got up to 20ish unhappy faces. I've only known that reaction when I was voting "never!!!" on UN resolutions, but in these cases the UN was far from being built.

Should be caused by resolutions. Are you sure you're not disobeying some Apostolic Palace stuff, for example?

- the second issue I ran into was with the legal civic "Traditional Customs". Whenever I choose that civ, it locks out every other legal civ for the rest of the game. In the game where the screenshot is from, I should have access to most of the other legal civics, but can only choose "Traditional Customs" and can't switch it with the world builder either. Happened with American, German, Egyptian and Russian civs so far.

This is extremely strange. I never ran into this one before... Does it happen all the time?

Until now I have played with only Domination victory condition ON and with Vassals OFF. I really like how rival civilizations behave in this case, but it is quite hard (and almost impossible for AI) to achieve domination victory. AI is really smart in RI and smaller civilizations are wise enough to unite agaist the leader.

Only recently I started to play with all (expect Time) victory conditions ON and I have a small observation. I think culture is somehow "excessive" in game in comparasion with "science". I have tested few games with AI autoplay and in all games Cultural victory is achieved earlier than anyone starts to build any component of spaceship (technological progress somehow lags - usually even by 2050 there is no civilization that have discovered all of the techologies).
P.S. I play (and have tested) with No City Razing option ON - so maybe that was an extra reason to make Cultural victory to come earlier, but still culture seems to be excessive in game.

Might be that culture victory is somewhat too easy. We rebalanced the values last time quite a while ago, and it could have changed a lot since then. BTW, I think you can comfortably turn city razing back on. In 3.3, AI should be quite smart about what to raze and what not to.

 

[Colon]

OK, figured this one out. We'll fix this for 3.31, but essentially it's a quirk of how Windows handles shortcuts. You can fix it yourself in your local copy. Right-click the shortcut and change

"E:\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod="\Realism Invictus"

to

"E:\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" "mod=\Realism Invictus"

It will no longer ask you to reload.

Thanks, as far as I can tell it works properly now.

 

[Civilai Khan]

I enjoy this mod.
Thank many people who made this mod.

I want to use Oda Nobunaga at Huge Earth Map Scenario.
I use World Builder and put his settler on the Map, but I can't select him.

In this Scenario, I can't choose some leader like Attila.
How can I select these leaders ?

 

[Civilai Khan]

And I think Statue of Odin must have own Icon!

 

[Muninn]

The icon for Shinto Shrine seems to be a lower resolution than other buildings. It looks blurry on the Civilopedia page for the building itself and has smaller dimensions on the Civilopedia for Japan.

 

[H4run]

Can anyone kindly help me to allocated the location of tribal fort in xml? I want to edit it, I already decrease some of the tribal fort in the old version of my realism invictus via world builder, but now I decide instead of manually reduce it one by one because it can be so tiring, I want to decrease the base attack of tribal fort. Because in all of the game I play, China (south and north), Korea not only fail to expand it get easily annihilated by the barbarian. While Khmer barely survive and remain backward. China should be one of the powerful nation, and some nation like Mongols and Turks should be able to expand and annexing barbarian settlement during medieval periods, while the current power of Tribal fort just act like a sponge that sucking huge power of Genghis Khan military and leave it as futile nation. I want some huge China, Turk and Mongolian empire to expand threatening Persia and Russia and potentially the West. Please help me to edit this overpowerful tribal fort that keep the east backward for most of the game.

 

[Shuikkanen]

Can anyone kindly help me to allocated the location of tribal fort in xml?

Found it, finally. It's in TR_Unique_Units_CIV4UnitInfos

It's near the end. Search for BARBARIAN_FORT. (The first hit is some armored car that gets a bonus against it, go further.) The simplest way to nerf it is to reduce its strength, which is the value iCombat (currently 10). You might also take away some of its first strikes, or the inability to receive collateral damage (set iUnitCombatCollateralImmune to 0). A very effective nerf should also be removing its medic abilities.

If you want to make games mayhem, make it buildable (currently AI can't build any more of them), by changing its iCost value to something other than -1.

 

[H4run]

Found it, finally. It's in TR_Unique_Units_CIV4UnitInfos

It's near the end. Search for BARBARIAN_FORT. (The first hit is some armored car that gets a bonus against it, go further.) The simplest way to nerf it is to reduce its strength, which is the value iCombat (currently 10). You might also take away some of its first strikes, or the inability to receive collateral damage (set iUnitCombatCollateralImmune to 0). A very effective nerf should also be removing its medic abilities.

If you want to make games mayhem, make it buildable (currently AI can't build any more of them), by changing its iCost value to something other than -1.

aaahh thanks man! finally found it (I was keep scrolling my mouse in the huge list of Unitinfo) thank you so much for telling me the location. I currently changed the combat ability to 4 make the poor Chinese and Khan able to expand in the game, it tears my heart to witness how Caocao and Sunquan unable to pass infancy during the game get swallow by the barbarian in ancient time which later on those barbarian get swallow either by me or some European nations in later time period with gunpowder. I want some competitive Asian nation, so there you go.

The present of tribal fort just make some potentially great nation becomes impotent, namely Ethiopian, they just keep throwing their massive army to Bantu and fighting endless war with that immensely highly promoted tribal fort that later on I can take on their tired nation easily and ignore Bantu for the rest of the game (I love Bantu). It is just a giant unit sponge that swallowing great units in Asia and Africa.

 

[keldath]

im playing my first game ever in realism,

and im wondering - are there no corporations?

besides that, im having fun,
although i think the techs quantity at fist stages of the game are quite a lot, but its fun never the less.

 

[Shuikkanen]

im playing my first game ever in realism,

and im wondering - are there no corporations?

Not in the way they are done in vanilla BtS.
There are some Wonders which can be built by Great Merchants, named after corporations, which grant you some resource (cars, pharmaceuticals or hit movies).

 

[keldath]

huh, i see.

strange, but, i guess corps are a thing that can cause some off balance in the vanilla game.

 

[arzac93]

Awesome work on the latest update, guys. My workers don't get stuck in a loop anymore!

Anyway, I think upping unit costs is a great idea, I also think it should also depend on the empire size/population. It makes sense that larger and more populous nations will have an easier time getting recruits than one a quarter of its size. Is this technically possible?

 

[keldath]

lenin has no greeting text on first contact

 

[Tabriz]

lenin has no greeting text on first contact

So do Lady Xoc and one of the Armenian leaders... The one who is Agricultural and Expansive