Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[arya126]

We cant put the night eagles 'on call'. They have disapeared, so I will leave them be for a little bit. We have the HDO, and i have already said they will be assigned to this new threat.

Aysee, i have already posted this plan before, even PMed it, and you havent had a problem with it. It is CRUCIAL, that we deal with Ireland NOW, before it breaks into open rebellion.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Ireland is getting fractious. The Khan is demanding to know when he will return to his palace in New Horizons, and the KRF is making noise about fighting for their rights. Their leader is nowhere to be found.

The Khan has probably gone to ground untill the Irish Rights get sorted out. We need that date to meet up. Same time tomorrow? EST 10:00pm i believe? Arya is right that it now needs to be sorted. If Fargle was around to talk sense into the Khan maybe we could leave it... of course if Fargle was around he may have allready launched a revolution to free them.

Added to that there is increasing instability in Germany, and recently an organization called "the Syndicate" has appeared on our radar in England itself. The Night Eagles have once again vanished.

Germany is most likely playing up as our vassal because we moved some of our protective forces out of their land and haven't sorted out the Irish Friend/Vassal/Annexation issue. They just don't feel secure.

The Syndicate is in the English Isles you say? And the Night Eagles have vanished... I wonder if someone is going to become a player not a pawn...

Perhaps to speed up the end of this war, if the Arabs/Russian forces don't accept a cease fire we should burn down the next city of russia or Arabia to send a message... That should raise some red flags in certain circles.

One of our prominent merchants' daughter has been asked for her hand in marriage - by a Viking naval captain. Considering this "merchant's daughter" bears a relation to Lord Fargle, this has the potential to be very, very dangerous. Do we risk the Vikings learning our secrets but avoid major political and internal upheaval, or vice versa? And can we afford either in the middle of this War and with Ireland chafing at the bit?

-L

bears a relation... i'm hoping you mean the historical turn of phrase to mean related too and not that this woman is actually Lord Fargle dressed up as a Woman on his own little spy mission...

Anyway...

Wait what is this Marriage you talk of? Are we talking Christian English Wedding here or Buddist Bonding Ceremony because as the Pope i'm sensing a rightous judgement coming down if we arn't talking a white wedding.

-

Also be careful with the HDO... they have a history of just slaughtering everyone and the Syndicate could be a boon not a curse to us. It isn't linked to the germans after all its merely a new shadow organisation springing up... and as the Night Eagles dissapeared at the exact same time... well by the pricking of my thumbs i sense something is afoot and we shouldn't step too quickly.

 

[mechaerik]

Oooo, political intrigue. Ravus, I know that as the leader of Ravusainity, you feel compelled to see that thing be done in its tradition. But why does it matter in which religion you make a union? Its like which alcoholic drink you prefer; its all just an opiate for the masses. You are better than that Ravus.

 

[Dem Taqat]

@Mech- He's the Pope. It's his job to worry about things like that. Besides, that is what in game events worry about.

@Ravus- I think I know what you mean , and I certainly hope so. Yes, I think Burning down a city would be a nice Idea, but which one would we burn? If we were to go that far I would chose Vladivostok, but that's unlikely, so I vote Yaroslavl :fire:.

Also, see the continued usefulness of the :fire: smiley.

Edit: Ha! I'm not sure if it is at all relevant, but I just remembered the syndicate is in LH's book, and are probably providing inspiration for the Syndics in the Game.

DT
Burninig Cities :fire:

 

[Aysee]

Since the Arabs aren't giving peace, just burn down whatever cities we capture from now on. We've gotten all the useful ones already.

 

[arya126]

We dont know if they are giving peace yet. We havent offered.

 

[W|M]

Although I lost track a little while ago, I've caught up now. Aysee, you should be disgusted of COMMITING ARAB GENOCIDE! Yes, burning Arab cities is genocide of innocent civilians for no good reason.

 

[arya126]

We havent burned down any cities WIM. And im in office right now.

 

[W|M]

He's planning to burn cities, though.

 

[Dem Taqat]

And im in office right now.

WIM, I don't think aysee's Ideas are the main things you need to be worried about, he doesn't have final Say. Aysee, Ravus and Me want to burn Cities, but it's ultimately Ayra's Decision., because he's the President Right now.

On a related Note, BURN EVERY CITY AFTER NOVGOROD!!! :fire:

DT
Pyromaniac :fire:

 

[Whosit]

Burning cities make a civ like you less. I'm not really sure that it actually convinces them to make peace sooner, but I suppose it's still a kickass way to show someone whose boss. However, I do wish to admonish Aysee for the suggestion, since burning down cities will undermine England's position as liberator. I think that is the image we should cultivate internationally.

 

[mechaerik]

Also, it wouldn't be genocide; mass murder of civilians, might be apt, but that's if you just go in and kill everything that moves; the city should be evacuated, then burned.

 

[arya126]

Strangely, if we DO raze any cities, I agree with WIM. I think its a first. Go get the record books.

I would prefer not to raze cities. If we get more than we can hold, create a vassal.

 

[Gruekiller]

Burn them down like a boss. We're England, the greatest nation in the history of ever. Who cares what the locals think of us?

 

[Celticfury]

Burn them down like a boss. We're England, the greatest nation in the history of ever. Who cares what the locals think of us?

While we are the most powerful nation in the world, if we just go around burning and looting everything in sight, then sh*t like this will happen. We have the forces capable of forcing Saladin to the table without needing to resort to such actions.

 

[arya126]

*I* care about those locals that will be burned up in the process. They have done no harm to us, and if they do so after wards, they will be punished. But i have had a change of heart. Burning down cities is barbaric, and will only be resorted to as a last resort.

I ask you people of England, you people of parliament, no I Implore you to see the horrors of what people are proposing. To burn down a city full of people the size of Amsterdam...it sends shivers down my spine. Why do such a thing when other, better, more humane options are available?

Think of yourselves, think of when the vile Roman emperor Caesar had ordered his armies to assault our country! Remember the massacre of Ravus-York! Do you really think doing such a thing to the Arabians, evil though they are, would end the war faster? Its not even their own people dying! There are RUSSIANS over there, trying to live normal lives in the midst of all this war! Would you have me end those lives? I know Russia attacked us. But it was their government, with Stalin at its head, not the common peoples of that land. Even not all people of the Royal family are bad! Many members of the parliament have met the Princess, Catherine. She was unbelievably nice, and seemed to think we were barbarians that saved her for no reason other than political uses.

Death is not something to celebrate, or encourage. It is something to mourn. Death in war is unavoidable. But mass burning of the peoples of an entire city, people who ahve likely done nothing against our nation? Unacceptable.

If you do not listen to me, listen to Christ. Our Savior, Jesus Christ. Do you really think he died to cleanse all of you of sins at birth, just so you could commit more? Do you think he would like the fact that we talk of killing and burning freely, without any sorrow in our hearts? I think not! We should all feel ashamed of ourselves, myself included. I pray every night, asking for him to forgive me, and he has not answered. I do not give up. His father, God Almighty, has a plan for every living soul. It is our choice whether to follow it or not, but i highly doubt that there was any planning of what we talk about, of what we consider doing in order for a swift end to this war.

I ask that we all dig deep within our hearts and minds, and find that goodness, find that joy that we love to experience, and understand that if you force me to such a course of action, that you are taking away all hope of those people of experiencing those things on this Earth again.

Please, i beg of you, do not make me do this, commit the sin of all sins. Do not force me to commit genocide.

Closed session: As a side effect of this i order the capture of Julius Caesar from his mansion in Northern Italy, and for him to be brought in front of me for interrogation. Afterwards, I shall rule on his sentence.

 

[mechaerik]

Again, its not genocide. We aren't going out of our way to kill all of them. That being said, I am against the razing of cities, because it is almost certain that these conquered peoples would be integrated into our society and made British citizens. Destroying their homes and infrasructure would mean placing an unnecessary, and likely great, strain on our system. And if we do take a torch and burn their cities, the territory we fought for, the territory British lives were spent on, would be a useless wasteland. Its not a sound idea, whther you approach the question humanitarianistically (?), economically, politically, diplomatically, or any other way.


[closed]Why is the Caesar under arrest? What wrong has he done? The burning of Ravus York? I'm fairly certain we did that one.[/closed]

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Err yeah... gotta call foul on the Caeser thing myself. Though i may have plotted his demise in a few Machiavellian plots i only did so to improve the English nation in some way... i fail to see how bringing in this foreign dignitary NOW would improve anything, he's not from the German Rumblings and he isn't linked to the new Syndicate.

-

I suppose we could enter a moral arguement on whether it is more evil to allow numerous soilders to die in a ongoing war untill both sides say that enough have died or to escalte the warfare to unimaginable levels, razing a city of Civillians and securing peace. But from a logical standpoint the answer is clear. A clean swift cutting away of the cancer ensures that the number of dead needed to ensure peace are on our enemies side.

To me it seems more evil to allow young men from both countries to die in the night, forgotten and unremembered by name years from now just so that both sides can feel what they call these emotions of equality or honour before signing peace.

Humane is merely a word. It changes by the ages and can be redefined in a instant. Years from now it may be inhumane to worship religions. They may call it a degenerative mental disease. Even in English history we have allowed slaves and the high born immortals could use the mere mortals like cattle. Was it Humane to do so? The question is meaningless. Humane allways changes.

Do not look in your hearts. With the new scientific method we know that emotions come from the mind and that they are flawed and illusionary. With the right words in the right place at the right time i could convince someone to feel anything i wanted. The levers of the mind are the playthings of those with know how and thus you should not trust anything but cold logic. Do not turn away from an option that could end a war NOW.

I agree the Russians are a nice people but they are led by a mad man that has capitulated them to Arabian Devils. The reason that the English Empire is so grand and magnificent is that we seek allways improvement and to better the nation. We keep our peoples happy, and thus productive, and give them what they need. The Russian people should have overthrown their King years ago. The Age of Monarchy is over. We do not need to Genocide the whole Race. Merely to send a message that will shake their very bones and linger down their evolutionary tree for centuries. Burn them. Break the nation. Then help them rebuild into something grand. They can only be truly rebuilt once broken.

Mortal Souls pass on to something better. We Immortals linger on. There is no release for us. We must create our own heaven on earth before it is too late. If we forever linger on pretending that we have the same morality system as mortals who briefly burn then die it will not come to pass. We walk this earth forever. We choose what is RIGHT not what is morally good or joyful.

End the Crusade in one blow.

- Ravus, the Dark Pope

 

[Whosit]

Spoiler :

I also question the reason why Caeser is being brought in now. We negotiated an honorable peace with him. On what charges is he to be arrested? Why are you alone to be judge and jury?

Strange to think that the Pope would be speaking of the Scientific Method and Rationality. Well, I for one would rather conquer more people than burn them. Our soldiers are better equipped, so our casualties should be low. We can win this war by making the other poor bastards die for their country.

 

[Dem Taqat]

See The Dark lord Holy Pope, endorses such things, it must be the will of God. Scientific Method stuff is just Further Justification, for the less Devout Beleivers, We Do it because the Great Pope Ravus Himself can see no Better option. Even the divine wisdom of God imparts no better option than these, Relatively Few, deaths now, as opposed to the hundreds of millions who will die other the course of the War.

:Closed:It's also more cost efficiant! Burning 1 million People with 1 massive holy flame is much easier than allowing those million people to live and then hunting them and burning them with 1 million Holy fires later! It's all about saving time and money! Also, while i'm in closed session, didn't we already allow Caeser to go free? In any case, I see no Purpose to punishing him Now, there are no problems that will solve, and if people hear about it they will become more Rebellious. This move is the opposite of burning Cities! This is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE!!!:Closed:

OOC: But Fire is always good! :fire:

DT
Holy Fire :fire: