Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[arya126]

Hey nuke just a little thing and i dont want to sound rude BUT: GET OFF LH'S COMPUTER! WE NEED HIM TO WRITE US A STORY!

LH can you get that message to him? Thanks.

And yeah sonereal, the longbowmen were english, although if i remember correctly, variants were used other places as well. Technically they originated in wales if i am correct. I think CIV5 might help out with making them good for offensives with the ranged attack thing, but no promises. The biggest problem is that they are so much weaker without their defensive advantages compared to the macemen and knights of their time in the game. Longbowmen should instead have 7 strength, and +50% vs any mounted unit, and +25% against any crossbowmen(who reloaded their weapons slower then the longbowmen at crecy, allowing the genoese crossbowmen assisting the french to be slaughtered by their arrows, then run over by the french knights when they ran for it). That would make them much more powerful, and better reflect their effect on the warfare of the time. Of course there would have to be a counter, and i cant think of any off the toip of my head. As far as i know, technology (gunpowder) was the only thing that stopped them. I should go refresh my memory of the later stages of the hundred years war...

 

[sharpeye324]

I agree with Ravus, I see no problem in allowing Arya to be Opposition Leader.

 

[ilduce349]

Wait MN is still captured? Then how did he vote, announce his run for presidency etc. Also who captured him again?

@Arya

Spoiler :

And yeah sonereal, the longbowmen were english, although if i remember correctly, variants were used other places as well. Technically they originated in wales if i am correct. I think CIV5 might help out with making them good for offensives with the ranged attack thing, but no promises. The biggest problem is that they are so much weaker without their defensive advantages compared to the macemen and knights of their time in the game. Longbowmen should instead have 7 strength, and +50% vs any mounted unit, and +25% against any crossbowmen(who reloaded their weapons slower then the longbowmen at crecy, allowing the genoese crossbowmen assisting the french to be slaughtered by their arrows, then run over by the french knights when they ran for it). That would make them much more powerful, and better reflect their effect on the warfare of the time. Of course there would have to be a counter, and i cant think of any off the toip of my head. As far as i know, technology (gunpowder) was the only thing that stopped them. I should go refresh my memory of the later stages of the hundred years war...

You have most of your history correct. However the combat system is completed messed up in civilization 4. My major complaint is muskets should have an attack of 4, but cost like 15 production. After all the Bow has a further range and was more accurate then the first muskets, but the muskets where used because they where easier and cheaper to use, less energy to fire it and easier to store. It was economy over strength. I posted a thread in the customization requesting a mod that changed the unit strengths and bonuses for almost every unit. However I don't think anyone responded

 

[Sonereal]

Hey nuke just a little thing and i dont want to sound rude BUT: GET OFF LH'S COMPUTER! WE NEED HIM TO WRITE US A STORY!

Nuke needs to build more pylons first.

And yeah sonereal, the longbowmen were english, although if i remember correctly, variants were used other places as well. Technically they originated in wales if i am correct. I think CIV5 might help out with making them good for offensives with the ranged attack thing, but no promises. The biggest problem is that they are so much weaker without their defensive advantages compared to the macemen and knights of their time in the game. Longbowmen should instead have 7 strength, and +50% vs any mounted unit, and +25% against any crossbowmen(who reloaded their weapons slower then the longbowmen at crecy, allowing the genoese crossbowmen assisting the french to be slaughtered by their arrows, then run over by the french knights when they ran for it). That would make them much more powerful, and better reflect their effect on the warfare of the time. Of course there would have to be a counter, and i cant think of any off the toip of my head. As far as i know, technology (gunpowder) was the only thing that stopped them. I should go refresh my memory of the later stages of the hundred years war...

Hopefully. RevolutionDCM allows for Attack Support and Archer Bombard which makes longbowmen extremely powerful in their own right, both offensively and on the defense. Technology did kill them off. After all, it took years of training and strength to work a longbow compared to muskets, where you can train the guy in a week but the weapon is incredibly inaccurate but at least you can mass produce troops to a degree.

 

[MathNerd]

I'm Prez. Good good. Now, lets blast to work ASAP. England has a lot to get done...

Alright. Anybody got problems with this: (I made the important parts bold)

This is going to end up as a huge mess of stuff:

1. Switch Birmingham from a Heroic Epic into a workboat to redo the fish that were pillaged.

2. Make sure that all cities have a granary.

3. Once you build up enough units, launch an attack onto Neopolis and Cumae.

4. After either Neo and Cumae have been taken or the war appears to be turning against us, make peace with the Romans. I expect the Romans to give us stuff for peace, but if they don’t ONLY trade away maybe a small tech.

5. Make sure there are enough defending units in our French cities particularly, around 5-ish strong units in France, 4-3 in the rest of the empire.

6. Get a galley out to link the Isles to the mainland. Position the galley in such a way that it can act as a land bridge for transporting workers and stuff across the English Channel.

7. Slap down cottages everywhere that there isn't a hill, resource, or prebuilt improvement. The unimportant farms can be cottaged over.

8. Allocate workers so that each city works as few unimproved tiles as possible. This means more workers in the unimproved areas of the nation.

9. Make sure the Iberian resources are hooked up.

10. Techs: Finish Mach - CS - Feud - Guilds - Banking

11. I think that's all, but I'm sure I'll forget something.

Now: Comment away! Tell me what I'm forgetting, tell me what to remove, tell me how stupid I am, etc. You know, the usual. I'll be more descriptive and definite once I get public opinion and pics.

 

[ilduce349]

wonders. Start the production of AP in london ASAP

 

[Nukeknockout]

I trust Ravus' tally. I'll still keep my own records, but I've been watching Nuke play Star Craft II Wings Of Liberty for 4 hours. My machine is the only one that runs it.

Anyway, congrats to MN! I'll see what the Coin says about rescuing you tomorrow or later tonight, depending on how obsessed Nuke is

- Lighthearter

yes,I am obsessed.but I paid 63 dollars for that game,and have been looking forward to it since I beat Brood War.I think I have a right to be a little obsessed

Hey nuke just a little thing and i dont want to sound rude BUT: GET OFF LH'S COMPUTER! WE NEED HIM TO WRITE US A STORY!

LH can you get that message to him? Thanks.

we're working on terms of agreement.I should have a chance to play my game,but I don't want to hog LH's computer.this makes those legal dramas that I abhor look positively straightforward

as for longbows,all I know is that,in Civ IV,they own on the defensive with hills,walls and city garrison 3 that's what you need to beat them easily

 

[MathNerd]

I think people disagreed with AP ATM.

 

[Nukeknockout]

I think people disagreed with AP ATM.

I do,but then again,diplo victory is not my style,neither is diplo domination.

 

[ilduce349]

What wonders are we in favor for? They are normally worth the production.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

I'm Prez. Good good. Now, lets blast to work ASAP. England has a lot to get done...

Alright. Anybody got problems with this: (I made the important parts bold)

This is going to end up as a huge mess of stuff:

1. Switch Birmingham from a Heroic Epic into a workboat to redo the fish that were pillaged.

2. Make sure that all cities have a granary.

3. Once you build up enough units, launch an attack onto Neopolis and Cumae.

4. After either Neo and Cumae have been taken or the war appears to be turning against us, make peace with the Romans. I expect the Romans to give us stuff for peace, but if they don’t ONLY trade away maybe a small tech.

5. Make sure there are enough defending units in our French cities particularly, around 5-ish strong units in France, 4-3 in the rest of the empire.

6. Get a galley out to link the Isles to the mainland. Position the galley in such a way that it can act as a land bridge for transporting workers and stuff across the English Channel.

7. Slap down cottages everywhere that there isn't a hill, resource, or prebuilt improvement. The unimportant farms can be cottaged over.

8. Allocate workers so that each city works as few unimproved tiles as possible. This means more workers in the unimproved areas of the nation.

9. Make sure the Iberian resources are hooked up.

10. Techs: Finish Mach - CS - Feud - Guilds - Banking

11. I think that's all, but I'm sure I'll forget something.

Now: Comment away! Tell me what I'm forgetting, tell me what to remove, tell me how stupid I am, etc. You know, the usual. I'll be more descriptive and definite once I get public opinion and pics.

It would probably be better to split this up into parts if it gets to big.

1. How close are the roman tiremes? Will they just pillage the fish again straight away making the work boat useless?

2. I think it's just Antium now... basically it whips a wall then builds a granery. I'll type up some official looking france premier stuff later

3. I'm sure Whosit can define what would be enough. We probably need a update on our units and Cull can go check out the defences but we should be good to re-launch in a few turns.

4. Yes after germany we re-assess the situation. Check to make sure we will get stuff. it should come in the middle bit after 15 turns so we should be fine.

5. Antium should be the first to get a crossbowman. As long as it has an x-bow, axemen, archer, spearmen and catapult it should be able to deal with any attacking force. (an extra archer could help though)

6. Agreed, but deal with the Roman tireme first or we will waste a galley when it's sunk.

7. Don't slap down cottages in the mass production towns of scotland and birmingham. They don't have enough space to make use of them anyway and instead we can make them into our production cities.

8. Agreed. Also roads to help move the reinforcement quicker in france.

-

I think Ilduce wants at least one wonder being built and AP was the one that had the least people against it. It's also something that is better in our hands then the enemy. If the buddists build it then Russia can suddenly make EVERYONE declare holy war on us. I don't want to win a diplomatic victory but i also don't want that voting ability in enemy hands.

So that people have all the information neccesary here are the wonders that will be available (provided the AI hasn't built them)

Wonders available:

Apostolic Palace
Cost: 400
Culture: 4
Great People Points: 2 (prophet)
Allows Apostolic Palace elections
Guarantees eligibility for voting
Gives religious buildings for state religion +2 Hammers

Shwedagon Paya
Cost: 450 (Double Production Speed w/ Gold)
Culture: 8
Great People Points: 2 (prophet)
Requires: Aesthetics and Meditation
Enables all Religion civics.

The Colossus
Cost: 250 (Double Production Speed w/ Copper)
Culture: 6
Great People Points: 2 (merchant)
Requires: Metal Casting, Forge, and coastal city
Expires: Astronomy
+1 commerce for water tiles in all cities

The Great Library
Cost: 350 (Double Production Speed w/ Marble)
Culture: 8
Great People Points: 2 (scientist)
Requires: Literature and library
Expires: Scientific Method
+2 Free Scientists

The Hagia Sophia
Cost: 550 (Double Production Speed w/ Marble)
Culture: 8
Great People Points: 2 (engineer)
Requires: Theology
Expires: Steam Power
Workers build improvements 50% faster

The Statue of Zeus
Cost: 300 (Double Production Speed w/ Ivory)
Culture: 10
Great People Points: 2 (artist)
Requires: Aesthetics and 3 Monuments
Enemies suffer +100% war weariness

University of Sankore
Cost: 550 (Double Production Speed w/ Stone)
Culture: 8
Great People Points: 2 (scientist)
Requires: Paper
Expires: Computers
+2 beakers from all State Religion buildings

 

[Sonereal]

I'm partial to the Great Library. Sankore may be a good investment if we have the religious building for it.

 

[arya126]

I'm Prez. Good good. Now, lets blast to work ASAP. England has a lot to get done...

Alright. Anybody got problems with this: (I made the important parts bold)

This is going to end up as a huge mess of stuff:

1. Switch Birmingham from a Heroic Epic into a workboat to redo the fish that were pillaged.

2. Make sure that all cities have a granary.

3. Once you build up enough units, launch an attack onto Neopolis and Cumae.

4. After either Neo and Cumae have been taken or the war appears to be turning against us, make peace with the Romans. I expect the Romans to give us stuff for peace, but if they don’t ONLY trade away maybe a small tech.

5. Make sure there are enough defending units in our French cities particularly, around 5-ish strong units in France, 4-3 in the rest of the empire.

6. Get a galley out to link the Isles to the mainland. Position the galley in such a way that it can act as a land bridge for transporting workers and stuff across the English Channel.

7. Slap down cottages everywhere that there isn't a hill, resource, or prebuilt improvement. The unimportant farms can be cottaged over.

8. Allocate workers so that each city works as few unimproved tiles as possible. This means more workers in the unimproved areas of the nation.

9. Make sure the Iberian resources are hooked up.

10. Techs: Finish Mach - CS - Feud - Guilds - Banking

11. I think that's all, but I'm sure I'll forget something.

Now: Comment away! Tell me what I'm forgetting, tell me what to remove, tell me how stupid I am, etc. You know, the usual. I'll be more descriptive and definite once I get public opinion and pics.

1. Good. Dont send out the work boat though until the trireme is sunk. And resume the HE afterwards.

2. Ravus is right. Antium is the only one without, unless plymouth hasnt built one yet. BTW are we renaming it to Whomouth, or Plysit? I think both are worthy names. Plus, plymouth was the city that whosit settled, not conquered. I think that fact makes the city suit him better. Oh, and i dont think amsterdam has one ither. Check with LH.

3. No. Attack settie first, to seal italy off. Then take medialanum so we can have a future base in the balkans, and help germany if needed. After that, go after Cumae. Finally, take neapolis. The reason i favor Cumae, is it allows us to take some other cities first, AND it has better production then nepolis which will let it be better than a just commerce city. It can be more of an all rounder. If we still have the will to go forward, i support taking rome, helping germany in the balkans, and pressing into poland if the russians arent there already.

4. I dont like the idea of peace. Once we end this war with rome, we will either have to take the lands they will still control from russia whne we war with them, or from rome when they are someones (most likely russia's) vassal. Why dont we finish this war in one go? And for those people who say taking these cities will stagnate our economy, you are only partly right. It will stagnate UNTIL we start to fully improve the lands around the new cities. then we will have a better economy then we would have had otherwise.

5. No. Most cities should only have 1-2 units protecting them, with the exception of amsterdam and antium, which should be holding 4-5 units, AND the armies preparing to go on the offensive. Archers/x-bows should be placed on hills, in forests, and behind rivers to keep a lookout for any attacks.

6. Supported. But keep an extra 2 galleys ready for any other transport duties.

7. Dont do this in antium or Iberia. These are production cities, and will need the growth that farms in plains or grasslands will give them (assuming there are plains and grasslands near them).

8. No. we need to finish Iberia, and quickly. Maybe send out a worker, oir two at most, to cities like RY that need to be rebuilt, or to cities on the frontline like antium. But Iberia must be the priority.

9. Yes.

10. Get paper before feud.

11. You forgot to ask for EP so you can imprison me. But dont worry,that will come with time... :maniacal evil laughter: .

12. I will do a speech sooner or later, so brace yourselves. Dont worry, i wont instigfate another battle like the one at nottingham.

 

[arya126]

Also: as to wonders, we cant afford any right now. We are at war, and as LH and i have kept saying, ITS NOT OVER YET. We need units, units, and more units, with buildings when needed.

But in the future i would support wonders in this order:

1. AP (to prevent others from having its power, and to help us get back on our feet. It is my understanding that we can basicly tell other nations, as long as we have the same religion, what to do with this in our hands correct?)
2. Statue of Zues
3. The colossus (about tied for second)
4. The great library would be nice if the other wonders are either close to being built by the time were ready, or have already been built. But i woiuld not prioritize it.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

11. You forgot to ask for EP so you can imprison me. But dont worry,that will come with time... :maniacal evil laughter: .

12. I will do a speech sooner or later, so brace yourselves. Dont worry, i wont instigfate another battle like the one at nottingham.

No worries, it's good to get the opposition policy laid out publically and civil like.

The battle at nottingham would have been fine if you hadn't been sabotaging and fighting the government at the time. I do like a narrative battle now and again. Any conflict you want to highlight with the current enemy should be fine, just try not to cause anything extreme internally, especially when you wanted power to prove you could be trusted.

EDIT: Oh and remember LH will use anything you narrate so try not to write anything that causes a huge roman army to be worldbuildered in or one of our cities to burn.

 

[Sonereal]

1. AP (to prevent others from having its power, and to help us get back on our feet. It is my understanding that we can basicly tell other nations, as long as we have the same religion, what to do with this in our hands correct?)

If we grab it, it'll be powerless unless we're the resident and there're other Christian nations. Still, better us than Buddhists who may try to turn wars into holy wars and then where will we be? In trouble.

 

[arya126]

If we grab it, it'll be powerless unless we're the resident and there're other Christian nations. Still, better us than Buddhists who may try to turn wars into holy wars and then where will we be? In trouble.

Big trouble alright. Which is why i want to get it.

Now i am guessing it works sort of like the UN, and it has electiosn to see who is the 'leader'? And we are guaranteed a chance if we build it?

And if we build it, wouldnt we still have the chance to spread the religion afterward? Everyone keeps acting as if we need to spread the religion FIRST, and not after we build it. The thing is, if we wait and spread it, we will probably be too late to build the AP.

 

[sharpeye324]

Big trouble alright. Which is why i want to get it.

Now i am guessing it works sort of like the UN, and it has electiosn to see who is the 'leader'? And we are guaranteed a chance if we build it?

And if we build it, wouldnt we still have the chance to spread the religion afterward? Everyone keeps acting as if we need to spread the religion FIRST, and not after we build it. The thing is, if we wait and spread it, we will probably be too late to build the AP.

I agree we build it now to deny it to the Buddhas, then we spread our religion and create some allies.

 

[Sonereal]

Big trouble alright. Which is why i want to get it.

Now i am guessing it works sort of like the UN, and it has electiosn to see who is the 'leader'? And we are guaranteed a chance if we build it?

Yes.

And if we build it, wouldnt we still have the chance to spread the religion afterward? Everyone keeps acting as if we need to spread the religion FIRST, and not after we build it. The thing is, if we wait and spread it, we will probably be too late to build the AP.

Yes. You're forgetting one thing. If we spread it to a larger power, we won't become the Resident in an election. Therefore, if we build it, we need to pursue a policy of aggressive expansionism once the economy is up to speed. You know, spread the religion, see if it takes, and if it doesn't we go in and force them to take it. Conquering other holy cities would be in our best interest as well in the long run.

 

[mechaerik]

I'm Prez. Good good. Now, lets blast to work ASAP. England has a lot to get done...

Congratulations.

3. Once you build up enough units, launch an attack onto Neopolis and Cumae.

I would prefer attacking Italy, striking at Rome's heart.

4. After either Neo and Cumae have been taken or the war appears to be turning against us, make peace with the Romans. I expect the Romans to give us stuff for peace, but if they don’t ONLY trade away maybe a small tech.

No. If we can, we must press on. We must end this when we can. We cannot allow the Romans to strengthen again.

6. Get a galley out to link the Isles to the mainland. Position the galley in such a way that it can act as a land bridge for transporting workers and stuff across the English Channel.

Protect it with a trireme or two.

8. Allocate workers so that each city works as few unimproved tiles as possible. This means more workers in the unimproved areas of the nation.

Definitely agree. We must improve infrastructure.

9. Make sure the Iberian resources are hooked up.

Most definitely.

10. Techs: Finish Mach - CS - Feud - Guilds - Banking

I think
CS (for bureacracy) - Machinery - Guilds (with either Feud or banking next) would be better.

Any of the points not mentioned here, I agree with.