Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Sonereal]

No. If we can, we must press on. We must end this when we can. We cannot allow the Romans to strengthen again.

Didn't I hear something about the Romans pushing back the Russians? In that case, we do need to push before Russia peaces out.

 

[Whosit]

Sorry, I meant archery in general. If anything, I thought longbowmen were English. The way they ripped up French Knights was insane. The problem in-game is that it doesn't reflect the fact that archery units were both great for offensives and defenses.

The fact that I, using Aggressive-boosted Praetorians, was defeated while defending against Longbowmen, has changed my mind about how those units can be used. (This was multiplayer, just so none of you think I was beaten by the AI like that!)

Anyway, it seems like things are in full swing already. I'll need a good night's sleep before I can try to tackle everything, but I do just want to say that we shouldn't get Wonder crazy just yet: The war isn't over. LH has been reminding us of this constantly, so I'm not quite comfortable shutting off the troop faucets yet. Of course, we do have Kent and Birmingham to provide troops if London is tied up with a Wonder... although we most certainly need Forges, and probably Organized Religion, to minimize the time required to build the Wonders (total of +50% hammer bonus).

Also, pics please!

 

[MathNerd]

Changes in bold.

5. Make sure there are enough defending units in our French cities particularly, around 4-ish strong units in France, 3-ish in the rest of the empire. We also need scattered defensive units in the countryside until we make peace.

6. Get a galley out to link the Isles to the mainland. Position the galley in such a way that it can act as a land bridge for transporting workers and stuff across the English Channel. As long as there is one of our triremes in the area, I think we're safe, since we'll have a decent forewarning before a Roman attack.

8. Allocate workers so that each city works as few unimproved tiles as possible. This means more workers in the unimproved areas of the nation. If the Iberian resources are not all hooked up, we need workers for that too.

10. Techs: Finish Mach - CS - Feud - Guilds - Banking (Feud is a prereq to Guilds)

12. Revolt into bureaucracy.

------------

Now, we vote on war.

1)Make peace immediately
2)Attack Germany, then make peace
3)Attack Italy, then make peace
4)Take all of the Roman Empire

I'll wait till noonish tomorrow to see what people say, write up another draft, then send in the report to LH.

 

[arya126]

Look at it this way. LH has already given the romans a draft, and they have used those troops to drive the russians back out of the ukraine and regain iron. This means that rtussia will likely make peace with tyhem once they drive too far in, probably when the romans take moscow (which they could right now if they wanted to). So we need to take as much roman land as we can before the russians make peace, then dig in for when the romans transfer their troops to us. Maybe russia will even turn the war around over thereif we go on.

So...
Take cities in order of Settia-Medialanum-Cumae-Neapolis-Rome, then reassess the situation.

Once the HE is done, then birmingham, should build nothing but axes and swords so we can reinforce the front. Kent should be building infra so it can be useful later. London should continue making cats, until RY is strong enough to take over. Then it should build a forge, then a wonder. Then continue with more infra.RY should redevelop itself until its ready to spam cats. CN should build a barracks, maybe some infra, and a few arcgvers here and there. Antium should build x-bows, and axemen. Workers should be built here and there in all cities to improve the lands that we take from rome, so that they dont become a burden on our economy, and rather become an asset in the war.

We should put paper before feud in the techs.

We should not have as many as 3 units defending in every city. One unit each is good for the british isles, and 2 for each Iberian city, with 5 for nottingham, and 3 for antium (since the offensive army will be preparing in antium). If we put so many units in cities for defense, then we will have to pay ALOT of money, money that could rather be focused on troops that are about to fight the romans, instead of ones doing garrison duty.

Germany should be sent 3-4 defensive units once we take meialanum, so as to help germany keep rome distracted. If we push as hard as we can, and germany holds out, rome will fight a three front war. It truly will be a 44 germany then.

LH can we get pics showing all the units and where they are right now? Your last update didnt have any pics but one because of imageshack, but you did say there were others and you would upload them later. Can we see them with the additional pics i have just asked for?

 

[ilduce349]

12. Revolt into bureaucracy

Revolt in to OR, Byreaucracy and serfdom

I vote make peace as soon as the Russians do.

 

[Whosit]

Revolt in to OR, Byreaucracy and serfdom.

It has been very interesting to see all the ways people have tried to spell "bureaucracy." Cull being one of the other prime culprits.

Ilduce, why do we want Serfdom??? I have to admit that I have almost never used Serfdom. OK, so Workers Work faster, but that's not nearly as strong as Slavery's ability to turn food into hammers, or even Caste System's allowance for infinite specialists and a boost to workshop's production. Rather than adopt Serfdom, I just build more Workers. It has Low Upkeep, yes, which I assume is the draw for you, but civics with higher upkeep have higher upkeep for a reason (they are generally stronger).

I do agree with Arya that we should not use a flat number for defenders in our city. Ideally, we want to defend our cities, especially the backline ones, with as few troops as possible to save on upkeep costs. Kind of the irony of Hereditary Rule, I suppose, but it's still better than Despotism.

I still disagree about the extent to which we should war, though even if we were planning to grab most of Rome, I'd still advocate focusing on the lusher fields of central Europe rather than the Italian Peninsula. We're behind technologically, so we really don't want the war to drag on longer than it has to. I suppose it depends on how much assistance LH is giving to Rome (still not entirely sure why--story reasons??), and how much progress Rome makes against Russia, but so long as we end the war on our terms, we can be prepared for another one.

 

[Darth Caesar]

Now, we vote on war.

1)Make peace immediately
2)Attack Germany, then make peace
3)Attack Italy, then make peace
4)Take all of the Roman Empire

I'll wait till noonish tomorrow to see what people say, write up another draft, then send in the report to LH.

I vote number 4.

 

[arya126]

None of those options shows what i have said for a plan. But i would vote for option 4, using my path of war.

Whosit- LH is doing this, i presume, for the same reason he gives us random events. To make the game more interesting. Also, why do you undervalue italy so much? To me it looks like those could be very good cities. Germany is good, but it doesnt have the strategic position that medialanum and settia have. I say we take those 2 first, drive through germany, then go after rome. Then reasses the situation.

LH maybe a russian draft is a good idea? A viking and german one as well? Not too many, just enough to stop the romans for a bit. Im afraid they will take moscow and therefore hold the buddhist holy city. If we ever take moscow, we should either raze it, or WB out the holy city so buddhism has no holy city.

 

[ilduce349]

Ilduce, why do we want Serfdom??? I have to admit that I have almost never used Serfdom. OK, so Workers Work faster, but that's not nearly as strong as Slavery's ability to turn food into hammers, or even Caste System's allowance for infinite specialists and a boost to workshop's production. Rather than adopt Serfdom, I just build more Workers. It has Low Upkeep, yes, which I assume is the draw for you, but civics with higher upkeep have higher upkeep for a reason (they are generally stronger).

I do agree with Arya that we should not use a flat number for defenders in our city. Ideally, we want to defend our cities, especially the backline ones, with as few troops as possible to save on upkeep costs. Kind of the irony of Hereditary Rule, I suppose, but it's still better than Despotism.

I still disagree about the extent to which we should war, though even if we were planning to grab most of Rome, I'd still advocate focusing on the lusher fields of central Europe rather than the Italian Peninsula. We're behind technologically, so we really don't want the war to drag on longer than it has to. I suppose it depends on how much assistance LH is giving to Rome (still not entirely sure why--story reasons??), and how much progress Rome makes against Russia, but so long as we end the war on our terms, we can be prepared for another one.

I don't like slavery due to the slave revolt every other turn (seriously, the first time I used it the second turn after adopting it there was a slave result in Karakorum, I haven't adopted the civic since)
I forgot about caste, but I generally don't use it as I generally don't build workshops. Also as most of my specialists end up being engineers, I don't see the point of adopting a medium (Caste is medium right?) upkeep civic, which does nothing for me.

LH maybe a russian draft is a good idea? A viking and german one as well? Not too many, just enough to stop the romans for a bit. Im afraid they will take moscow and therefore hold the buddhist holy city. If we ever take moscow, we should either raze it, or WB out the holy city so buddhism has no holy city.

And loose the holy city????????????????? the hc is the best way to improve the economy +1 gold per city with that religion. We would be loosing 20 gold per turn. We keep the city.

 

[Whosit]

I agree that the Slave Revolt event is annoying, but it hardly happens every other turn. There is a random chance of it happening as soon as you enter the civic, and sometimes, yes, it's popped up the very turn I adopt it. I think that you should reconsider giving it a try, or perhaps turning Events Off to avoid the problem. Mechanically, Slavery is one of the strongest civics in the game.

And the Holy City is only valuable to us if the Buddhist Shrine has been built. However, I think that it's pointless to discuss this right now since we are hardly in a position to capture the Buddhist Holy City.

 

[Aysee]

Congratulations to President MathNerd! I, having so many RL things to take care of, managed to miss the election completly!

I advocate a combination of 3 and 4. Italy is top priority ATM, but once we take Italy we make peace. If they're unwilling to make peace, we start taking bites out of Germany.

Since I missed the election and the front page has nothing, Could someone please post the final tally, cabinet, and opposition please?

 

[Cull]

It has been very interesting to see all the ways people have tried to spell "bureaucracy." Cull being one of the other prime culprits.

I know. Isn't my spelling amazing?

Taking the Germanic heartlands of lush grasslands to cottage seems ideal. While Rome would be good, possibly even a future Ironworks City, we need the grass cottages far more. Option 2

I'll post more in a bit responding to 1-12.

 

[Whosit]

This was the last thing posted. I'm not sure if LH posted anything official, although I think that Unity won a pretty clear landslide, regardless.

Edit: I wonder how long the book for my term will be. Didn't seem nearly as long as Arya's term.

Ravus's tally.
Disclaimer: Not the legitmate LH Tally

Politicians who have voted
Whosit = Imperial + Co-Op
Ilduce = PCE + Co-Op
Ravus = Monks + Co-Op
Caesarplayer = Joker + Imperial
Sharpeye = Imperial (only has one vote)
Nukeknockout = Imperial and Co-Op
Sonereal= Imperial + Co-Op
Dark Dawain = CPE (Co-Op) + NPP
West india man = Green + Monks
MathNerd = Imperial + Co-Op
Cull = NPP + Greens
Arya = Joker + LMP
Domination = PCE + LMP
CelticFury = Co-Op + Monks

Parties and Coalitions
Unity Coalition (Cooperative Party/Green Peace Party/Stonehenge Monks/Peoples Consortium of England/Imperials/Ninja-Pirates)
Co-Op = 8
Green Peace = 2
Monks = 3
Consortium = 2
Imperials = 6
NPP = 2
Total = 23

Independent Parties
LMP Party = 2
Joker Party = 2

-

Unity Administration (Pending Confirmation and future requests)
Prez: MathNerd
VP: Whosit
Ministers:
Finance & Espionage: Cull
Military & War: Whoist
Technology & Development: Nuke
Foreign Affairs & Peace: WIM + Ravus
Governers / Premiers:
British Isles: Ilduce
Iberia (Western Europe): Nuke
France (Eastern Europe): Ravus

-

On Opposition ala' Mechaerik
According to the precedents set in arya's term and Whosits term. If Mech wishes to stay in the shadows he will be neutral, technically a part of the opposition but able to obviously voice his own thoughts and oppose both sides (like i did in Arya's term) If he actually wanted to make a stand he could forge his own opposition in the future (Like Arya did in Whosit's term)

Opposition Leader
Personally i don't see the problem. Arya was saying a few pages ago how he wished for the oppurtunity to earn everyones trust back and that he would need a powerful position to do so. As opposition leader he has full freedom to show us what he meant.

 

[arya126]

The only reason it was a landslide was that everyone besides the jokers and the LMP were in unity. That leaves a total of 5 people out of the coalition. Wow. It was such an accomplishment MN.

 

[civplayah]

Sorry, I was on vacation, so I had to skip through 24 pages.

 

[Sonereal]

The only reason it was a landslide was that everyone besides the jokers and the LMP were in unity. That leaves a total of 5 people out of the coalition. Wow. It was such an accomplishment MN.

It was. He effectively united most of the parties and the opposition is weak.

 

[mechaerik]

For now. A large coalition like Unity is inherently unstable.

 

[arya126]

It was. He effectively united most of the parties and the opposition is weak.

Thge opposition is weak? Im sorry, but you must have missed last term. I was a one man opposition and i raised the OSR to noticeable. With one person in the opposition. Now i have two whole parties. Lets put it this way: If i am in the opposition, then i have the potential to wreak as much havoc, and make the opposition as strong as i could possibly want.

Speaking of that, i need to work on a speech...

 

[Cull]

Speaking of which, speeches have to be forwarded to Lighthearter, correct? I have one about half-way done ATM.

Your one man opposition was a terrorist act and using your force to get power. And Mecharik and the LMP already have stated they would be neutral ATM.

 

[MathNerd]

So ATM, choice 2 is winning with three votes (me, Cull, Whosit), 4 is in second with 2 votes Jokers), and 3 is in third with one vote (Aysee). I'm pretty confident that most of Unity will go with choice 2 as well, so it looks like Choice 2 it is.

Sorry Jokers and Aysee (), it appears that choice 2 has the most support.