Religion Expansion

[citis]

Major religions:
I would say only Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and their denominations are major religions. I think players could be able to convert only to these religions.

Ethnic/minor religions: I would be beautiful to add them.

One extra proposal: Own religion autospreads to new founded cities. Settlers can be trained only in cities with state religion. On state religion change settlers are autodestroyed (only for human player).

Extra proposals for polytheistic religions:
*found by building a specific wonder
*can be percecuted via the knowledge of theology
*pagan temple is the temple of all polytheistic religions.

 

[calad]

I had very similar ideas like citis has.

There would be global and local religions only. Citis named global religions so that's it. Also Taoism would be removed because it syncs so much with Confucianism. Local religions needs to be reformed or they can be eradicated. Hellenism historically failed, also Egyptian and Mesopotamian religions. Hinduism, Confucianism and Shinto succeed reformation so they exist today.

 

[BenZL43]

I disagree, while many people are pagans today, there is a clear distinction between ancient pagans and neo-pagans. For gameplay reasons, there is no place for paganism past the Renaissance period.

Good point. I need to clarify tho: I should've use the word "Ethnic Religion" instead of "Paganism" haha. There's still place for ethnic religion nowadays IRL.

This is a good idea, and is called syncretism. It should be implemented as an early civic, giving a civ ONE additional bonus and reducing the penalty (50%?) from the second largest religion in that empire.

Sorry, no. I intentionally called it synergism because I portrayed it different from syncretism. Syncretism as I understand is more like religion A + religion B = mixed religion AB, while Synergism is more like religion A + religion B = enhanced religion A + enhanced religion B . Hope you understand what I meant. Also, a Syncretism civic should tolerate all religion that already existed before the adoption of Syncretism civic - but still applies penalty for all religion that spread after adoption of the civic. No state religion.

 

[LacsiraxAriscal]

Major religions:
I would say only Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and their denominations are major religions. I think players could be able to convert only to these religions.

Erm... India?

 

[VGL]

So, Persia cannot adopt Zoroastrian religion anymore? Or did i understand it badly?

 

[BenZL43]

So, Persia cannot adopt Zoroastrian religion anymore? Or did i understand it badly?

A new civic: Pantheism
(replace Pantheon)

Effect:
1) Allow ethnic religion to become a state religion

Spoiler :

Pesedjet, Annunaki, Canaanite, Olympianism, Shinto, Tengrism, Teotl, Intiism

2) Allow building of ethnic religion - related wonders.

Spoiler :

I know that this could make wonders like Torii Gate can only be built by Japan etc, which is why I also propose (3) to counter it. Else you could always conquer that city with that ethnic religion to build the wonder.

3) Ethnic religion (that you adopted as state religion) can spread outside your cultural borders passively

Spoiler :

but with a hardcoded difficulty, like only 20-40% chance to allow the spread. It's just to make the game less deterministic and more possibility

4) Diplomatic penalty with civilization that has adopted the major religion as state religion.

Spoiler :

Uh, pagans.Major civilization I meant are Christianity, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and Confucianism. This is to discourage the civilization to stays Pagan (I got more example if necessary but I believe not)

Here's a good vignette to illustrate no 1) and 3):

You are Persia with Zoroastrianism as your state religion (1). Zoroastrianism has passively spread to your neighboring civilization India and Babylonia due to your trade routes etc (3). Now both India and Babylonia can adopt Zoroastrianism as their state religion with Pantheism civic. (1)

 

[Leoreth]

So, Persia cannot adopt Zoroastrian religion anymore? Or did i understand it badly?

Who are you talking to?

 

[BenZL43]

I think he refer to your OP:

I'd say only Zoroastrianism and Taoism should be regarded as the ethnic religions of Persia and China.

 

[Leoreth]

I have never said anywhere that they should not be state religions. In fact, I was specifically talking about other religions that couldn't, as well as the rules that could apply to an ethnic religion as state religion.

Actually the whole point of those religions is to become state religions of the civs that are associated with them.

 

[BenZL43]

I guess then I'm not the only one assuming here ethnic religion can not be state religion. Glad that it can!

With so many threads you opened, could you at least tell us which one you're planning to work next? Vassal or South Asia or Religion? I know that you won't do all simultaneously

 

[ozqar]

Then we have religions never adopted as state religion by any civilization in the game. I will label these "minority religions":

Judaism: Worth including both for its role in the origins of Islam and Christianity, as well as the historical role of Jewish minorities in Europe and the Middle East

Sikhism and Jainism: Minority religions in India, might be interesting for a new Indian UHV goal. Sikhism already has a wonder associated with it, and is in general very interesting because it differs in many ways from the other religions.

Minority religions would mostly behave like ethnic religions, except that they cannot be adopted as a state religion, but instead can have a shrine.

The paragraphs above include the part where you say minority religions won't be able to become state religion. I think people (myself included) mixed ethnic and minority religion terms. In any case, I don't think you should make any difference between the terms, and that all of these should be state religion if the player wants.

 

[Leoreth]

I guess then I'm not the only one assuming here ethnic religion can not be state religion. Glad that it can!

With so many threads you opened, could you at least tell us which one you're planning to work next? Vassal or South Asia or Religion? I know that you won't do all simultaneously

Part of the point of creating all these threads is collecting ideas and information before I can get around to implementing them. Sometimes that means that I will continue next with the one where the ideas are most clear.

However, here it seems that it will be:
- Vassal mechanics
- (some other small stuff)
- South Asia things
- Religion changes

Which is likely in ascending order of complexity. Religion changes will likely be the last thing I do before release.

The paragraphs above include the part where you say minority religions won't be able to become state religion. I think people (myself included) mixed ethnic and minority religion terms. In any case, I don't think you should make any difference between the terms, and that all of these should be state religion if the player wants.

Yeah probably. To be clear those two were the only ones where I could imagine that you can't convert to them.

 

[ales_]

By the way, will all religions have URVs?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, but not immediately. Some of them might also share an URV or at least some goals.

 

[merijn_v1]

So that means that civs with an ethnic religion have something like 2 sets of UHV/URV?

 

[Leoreth]

I mean, this is basically the case for civs like Persia or China already. But that's exactly the problem, in many cases thematic elements of ethnic religions are already reflected in the existing UHVs so I don't want a URV that is mostly the same.

 

[BenZL43]

Well, if Shintoism (or any other ER) get URV, you could give a new set of UHV for Japan (or any other ER-civ) that are less-religion related.
That's just example though. I don't remember if Japan has any religion-related goals.

 

[VGL]

Is Shintoism ethnic religion? Cause it really had influence on Japan and was widespread in there till I know.

 

[Leoreth]

Have you read the OP?

 

[calad]

What civic would replace Pantheon? I think ethnic religion should be a state religion as well. I have been thinking a replacement: Imperial Cult. IU would represent all civs that regarded rulers as divide persons, Gods and holy. Atlest Maya, Rome, Egypt, Babylon, China and Japan would fall nicely under this civic. Japan most likely would be the last civ using this in the end of WW2.