Religious tolerance to mockery

[Masquerouge]

What makes some religions good at tolerating mockery, and others really bad at it ?

Christianity is, IMHO, the most widely mocked, and the most tolerant. "Life of Brian" is a good example, and I can easily come up with dozens of jokes making fun of Christianity.

Judaism has a very, very good sense of humor, too. Some of the funniest people around are Jewish, and they do not hesitate to fire away at Judaism. However, more often than not, it's better to be a Jew to do that kind of humor :
http://www.zone-videos.net/video-88-royal-rabbin.html

Islam, it appears ( and I stress appears) has a very low tolerance for mockery. The recent cartoon affair is proof of that.

What makes these three religions so different towards mockery ? Is it something in the religious creed itself ? Is it because Islam is a "young" religion ? Is it only the current geopolitical situation ? Do you think this will change ?

 

[JohnRM]

Again, I have to call BS. If they did to Christians, in America, what they did to Muslims in Denmark, you would find the same response.

 

[El_Machinae]

The "turn the other cheek" helps, but not enough.

What really makes a difference is that we're raised in a culture where being mocked in standard. And violent responses to mockery are not tolerated.

We've been punished since grade school for hitting kids that make fun of us. And tolerating mockery is just part of our culture.

 

[Masquerouge]

Again, I have to call BS. If they did to Christians, in America, what they did to Muslims in Denmark, you would find the same response.

Interesting.
But I do not agree. There is a de facto situation in the US where Christianity is made fun of ; whereas for Islam, the troubles arise because we're just trying to make fun.
Some people in the US are trying to change the attitude towards Christianity, but first they do not get a strong following right now (that could change), and then US Christianity is far, really far from being representative of Christianity worldwide.

 

[Little Raven]

It has little to do with the religion, and much to do with society.

I promise you, if you had published a cartoon about Jesus lusting after a woman in Puritan New England, you would have had your perception of Christianity as a tolerate religion reviewed in short order. If you were lucky, they would have been happy just torturing you, but I doubt it would have stopped there.

That's because Puritan society was extremely intolerant, and used it's faith in the Lord as the primary justification for hurting people badly. This should reflect badly on Puritan society, but not necessarily on Christianity. The Good Book was just their tool.

Right now, oil revenues allow certain countries in the Middle East to promote their version of Islam as the dominant flavor. (Wahhabism in particular.) These countries also have very intolerant societies. The version of Islam that they promote reflects this. But it has virtually nothing to do with the religion.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Again, I have to call BS. If they did to Christians, in America, what they did to Muslims in Denmark, you would find the same response.

I could see religious groups boycotting ... But whole countries?

Also America is a Christian country whereas Denmark is not a Muslim country. It has many Muslims but they are not the majority. I'm not saying that makes it right. But that definetly affects things.

This thread kinda reminds me of a preview for a movie I saw recently. It was about laghter in Islamic countries. It looked kinda good anyways.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

The oldest of the three, Judaism, also is the one with the best sense of humor. A sense of humor helps when at any given moment, one or both of your children may be trying to kill you.

 

[Timko]

Christianity is, IMHO, the most widely mocked, and the most tolerant. "Life of Brian" is a good example...

I remember watching a `Top 100 comedy films' type of show a couple of months ago, and Life of Brian was first I think, but certainly top 5. And the program showed some clips of John Cleese and one of the other pythons on a talk show with a bishop and some other religious person. Clearly the Christians weren't that tolerant, and though they weren't baying for blood they certainly would have tried to encourage Christians not to screen the film or watch it.

 

[Masquerouge]

We've been punished since grade school for hitting kids that make fun of us. And tolerating mockery is just part of our culture.

Mmh. So the issue is more cultural than religious, you would say ? I think I agree. But if we look at Europe, not so long ago (say roughly three centuries), that tolerance for mockery was not found in any of the absolute monarchies.

 

[Masquerouge]

It has little to do with the religion, and much to do with society.

I agree.

I promise you, if you had published a cartoon about Jesus lusting after a woman in Puritan New England, you would have had your perception of Christianity as a tolerate religion reviewed in short order. If you were lucky, they would have been happy just torturing you, but I doubt it would have stopped there.

Yeah, I've read the Scarlet Letter So what do you think brought enough changes in 200 years so that that kind of response (torture and a nice bonfire) is no longer acceptable ? Could the same happen for, say, Wahhabism ?

 

[Little Raven]

So what do you think brought enough changes in 200 years so that that kind of response (torture and a nice bonfire) is no longer acceptable ? Could the same happen for, say, Wahhabism ?

*shrug* We got lucky in a lot of ways. We've had little in the way of wars, and we've been at the forefront of the technical revolution, which has allowed massive economic growth. Our government, for all its failings, has had a few bang-up successes, like the interstate highway program.

I think it's highly unlikely that Wahhabism will moderate itself. Far more likely is that Wahhabism will fall out of favor, and other, more moderate schools will take it's place. The process will no doubt speed up considerably once oil revenues exit the picture.

 

[Irish Caesar]

I remember watching a `Top 100 comedy films' type of show a couple of months ago, and Life of Brian was first I think, but certainly top 5. And the program showed some clips of John Cleese and one of the other pythons on a talk show with a bishop and some other religious person. Clearly the Christians weren't that tolerant, and though they weren't baying for blood they certainly would have tried to encourage Christians not to screen the film or watch it.

Of course the bishops weren't in favor of the movie, but Joe Christian typically doesn't have too much of a problem with it. In Denmark, from what I understand, the mullahs are angry and Joe Muslim is angry, too. Therein lies the difference.

 

[aneeshm]

It has little to do with the religion, and much to do with society.

I promise you, if you had published a cartoon about Jesus lusting after a woman in Puritan New England, you would have had your perception of Christianity as a tolerate religion reviewed in short order. If you were lucky, they would have been happy just torturing you, but I doubt it would have stopped there.

That's because Puritan society was extremely intolerant, and used it's faith in the Lord as the primary justification for hurting people badly. This should reflect badly on Puritan society, but not necessarily on Christianity. The Good Book was just their tool.

Right now, oil revenues allow certain countries in the Middle East to promote their version of Islam as the dominant flavor. (Wahhabism in particular.) These countries also have very intolerant societies. The version of Islam that they promote reflects this. But it has virtually nothing to do with the religion.

I'd disagree - a strict and literal application of Quranic and Hadithic law would be very , very intolerant .

 

[Little Raven]

I'd disagree - a strict and literal application of Quranic and Hadithic law would be very , very intolerant .

A strict and literal application of Biblical law would be very, very intolerant as well. Have a chat with Mr. Phelps about it sometime.

Fortunately, few western Christians have the stomach for it anymore.

 

[nonconformist]

I was reading an editorial; in the paper the other day, that was about this subject, and the recent British anti-racial-hatred bill, banning religious jokes.

This guy was tlaking about Jehova's Witnesses, and said:
"The Jehova's Witnesses refuse anaesthetic and blood transfusions. Do they hold an annual 'Person Who Died From the Most Preventable Disease' contest every year? 'COngratulations to Mrs. Jackson, this year's winner, who died from a splinter!"

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

What makes some religions good at tolerating mockery, and others really bad at it ?

Christianity is, IMHO, the most widely mocked, and the most tolerant. "Life of Brian" is a good example, and I can easily come up with dozens of jokes making fun of Christianity.

Judaism has a very, very good sense of humor, too. Some of the funniest people around are Jewish, and they do not hesitate to fire away at Judaism. However, more often than not, it's better to be a Jew to do that kind of humor :
http://www.zone-videos.net/video-88-royal-rabbin.html

Islam, it appears ( and I stress appears) has a very low tolerance for mockery. The recent cartoon affair is proof of that.

What makes these three religions so different towards mockery ? Is it something in the religious creed itself ? Is it because Islam is a "young" religion ? Is it only the current geopolitical situation ? Do you think this will change ?

These religions have lost nearly all their influence in the secular world, and so realize that defending themselves against mockery is not going to produce any improvement in that regard. Islam still believes itself to be of influence in the Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia, so it doesn't stand for mockery as well. At one time, Christianity and Judaism were as rabidly fanatical as Islam. Christianity did not tolerate even hints of perceived afronts to its dignity, as evidenced by widespread burning of "heretics" in the Middle Ages, and censure of public figures such as Galileo Galilei.

So your premise that Islam is somehow special in this regard is false.

 

[-0blivion-]

I think its nothing to do with the different religions, more to do with the current political climate, which seems to be encouraging Rest of the World VS Middle East. Muslims understandably feel threatened, and when you back a dog into the corner, this is what is gonna happen.

 

[aneeshm]

A strict and literal application of Biblical law would be very, very intolerant as well. Have a chat with Mr. Phelps about it sometime.

Fortunately, few western Christians have the stomach for it anymore.

What does that have to do with anything ? I'm not a Christian , by the way .

But you made a statement about Islamic law - I felt necessary to make an addition and a correction to it . Then you started talking about how Christian law is intolerant if strictly and literally applied . What's the connection ?

 

[Little Raven]

But you made a statement about Islamic law - I felt necessary to make an addition and a correction to it . Then you started talking about how Christian law is intolerant if strictly and literally applied . What's the connection ?

The connection is that Masquerouge is asking why some religions appear to be tolerant and others do not. Answering that question requires discussing more than one religion for the sake of comparison.

Your 'correction,' if you want to call it that, lacked the proper context. I merely established it.

 

[Kozmos]

We've been punished since grade school for hitting kids that make fun of us.

That's horrible,you should be able to open a can whuppass any time you like on someone who taunts and makes fun of you excessively.