Removal of Poland

[Cosmos1985]

Considering you can disable Poland's spawn entirely, I don't really see the point of removing it.

That'll be my stance as well. Regulars can tweak the game themselves as much as they like, and with Poland and some of the other new civs it's even made easy for everyone. And well, yes, as a human player it's an extra challenge we can't avoid, true, but don't we deserve that as the trade-off for knowing a lot of things the AI doesn't? I'm fine with Poland as it is.

 

[Leoreth]

@Tigranes: I see no inherent contradiction between adding new civilizations and my kitchen sink comment.

It's more to address proposals like "add everything from C2C" than things like representing certain civilizations.

As for Poland, if it's a nuisance while playing HRE or Russia, good. Both were always getting Eastern Europe for free and I intentionally forced Poland's existence so they have to go through a little more trouble to acquire it. Making them conditional depending on uncontrolled core would only encourage you to squat them.

For everything else, disable them when you feel they drag down your game speed. If you want to improve your game speed as Germany or Russia, disable Tibet or whatever.

 

[BenZL43]

Remember that Poland also represent the Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth though most of the time I never seen them build cities in Lithuania.

It is one of the most populous country in 16-17th centuries, and for once also have colony in Trinidad-Tobago as well. It is also an important European center for development of modern social & political ideas. Also, based on my limited knowledge of Holy Rome, I think Poland wasn't part of Holy Roman Empire but sort of its neighbor so it's correct if they annoy HRE.

 

[Cosmos1985]

It is one of the most populous country in 16-17th centuries, and for once also have colony in Trinidad-Tobago as well

No that was Courland - but you're right about everything else.

 

[BenZL43]

Duchy of Courland was vassal of Poland-Lithuania

 

[Lone Wolf]

BTW, here's my list of good and bad civ additions to DoC, roughly in order from best to worst:

Good:

Tamils
Indonesia
Byzantium
Moors
Korea
Kongo
Prussia-HRE

Neutral:

Italy

Better off without:

Mughals, though in themselves they are fun
Tibet
Poland, though kinda pity to purge them if they're already here
Seljuks
Thailand

As for Poland, if it's a nuisance while playing HRE or Russia, good.

Yeah, you're receiving some contradictory feedback in this thread.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, you're receiving some contradictory feedback in this thread.

The feedback I'm receiving tells me that it is indeed a nuisance.

So it seems like everything works as intended.

 

[Bonci]

The UP could include a guaranteed first square around cities? (maybe only if they are built in core areas, to prevent human exploits)

 

[blizzrd]

Yeah, you're receiving some contradictory feedback in this thread.

26 people think Poland should not be removed. 8 think that it should. I think I can see which point of view is in the minority.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

As for Poland, if it's a nuisance while playing HRE or Russia, good.

Only because they settle crappy city locations. They offer no meaningful resistance whatsoever to any half-decent player. Saying this kind of "nuisance" is "good" is like telling someone that running barefoot over broken glass is good for their health because it's a "challenging exercise".

Poland in effect is no different from a few Indies/Barbs to offer free XP (North American/African Barbs offer far better resistance than Poland by far IMO), and a minor Stability penalty (from razing cities). Both of those can be given easily to HRE or Russia without representing Poland as a civ.

I could disable Poland permanently for my copy of DoC, but then

(1) AI HRE and Russia still avoid settling Poland's Core.

(2) The areas around Poland is still unrealistically food rich allowing for some absurd supercities easily capable of surpassing New York, London, or Tokyo.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

The feedback I'm receiving tells me that it is indeed a nuisance.

So it seems like everything works as intended.

If the intention of a game is to use stupid things to annoy people, yeah. Working as intended.

Judging from some of the recent releases from some of the biggest companies in the industry, I'd say your Poland is indeed state of the art.

 

[KievanRus]

Boost poland's production and commerce and maybe it will be a contender. I was strongly desiring it before it was introduced because there was no buffer between Germany and Russia and nothing to stop their expansion into eastern Europe. I don't want to see it go, but maybe strengthened a little bit.

 

[BenZL43]

Spoiler :

At their zenith, they control many good cities and are very influential.

 

[civ_king]

The problem with Poland is that Eastern Europe is compressed compared to Western Europe and Rhye lumped Poland in with Eastern Europe.

 

[phoenix_sprite]

Make it like Italy and stick an independent city in Lithuania, a pagan one of course.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

OK Leoreth you win. By refusing to remove Poland you leave me no choice.

Here are some suggestions on how to buff Poland.

- Improved UP: Golden Liberty
Foreign Culture causes no Unhappiness or Instability, and is dominated by your Culture in your cities BFCs (meaning, you always control your cities' BFCs regardless of Foreign Culture).
^ The second half of this UP (new addition) is the Chola UP of RFCA as well as the Serbian UP of RFCE++. In both of those mods, the UP makes a small, late spawning civ in a crowded location viable by giving them necessary room. Poland in DoC faces the exact same problem.

- Hidden Boosts to Religions
More religions should spread automatically to Poland. Let more Missionaries (Catholic and Orthodox) spawn in Poland some time after its spawn like how Orthodox Missionaries spawn for Russia and Buddhist Missionaries spawn for China.

Make Polish AI prioritize religious buildings, esp. Monasteries since it's the best way for Poland to get decent Culture and Tech rate.

- UB: Extra Happiness
The Polish UB, given what it represents (pre-Modern democracy), befits an extra (+2 would be appropriate and comparable to Theocracy) Happiness bonus. An earlier form of the American UP, if you will, but with the purpose of making City States more viable as opposed to Republic.

- UU: Hidden Tech Discount
AI Poland needs to be made to prioritize Music => Military Tradition. Perhaps a hidden discount in the research cost for Military Tradition is in order.

- Map: Independent Memel/Danzig/Riga to flip to Poland
The best way to avoid AI settling of crappy city sites is to settle cities for them.

^ There. I think all or most of these combined will make Poland less pathetic and more relevant.

 

[Lone Wolf]

you always control your cities' BFCs regardless of Foreign Culture

This will go really well with Wien or even Berlin, considering that their BFC's overlap with Krakow, completely sabotaging AI German civs. Controlling the 3x3 area is more reasonable.

 

[borhap88]

- Map: Independent Memel/Danzig/Riga to flip to Poland
The best way to avoid AI settling of crappy city sites is to settle cities for them.

I think it should be a great buff for Poland. Kovno or Medvegalis are so ugly.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

This will go really well with Wien or even Berlin, considering that their BFC's overlap with Krakow, completely sabotaging AI German civs.

I agree completely. I've forgotten how closely packed those cities are (and I'd forget it again just for my own inner peace).

But 3x3 area is kind of pointless IMO. I'd rather make it so that you can't dominate the tile if it's in the inner ring of another civ's city.

 

[Tigranes]

Ew, I don't want that.That has many obvious bad implications. Not that they understand regular victories except cultural in the vanilla game, either.

I have seen certain civs trying for Domination on higher difficulties, with a very huge SoD crashing all the neighbors and finally clashing with me.

The bottom line is -- you race against yourself, against the time. There are many Us in RFC, but unique victories do not influence unique behavior for their respective civs. Colonization maps, war maps and leader's personalities is all we have. Nobody cares for circumnavigation, for example...