Replay #8 4 µ m8s <3

[Gregonar]

What an amazingly detailed writeup. The part that stood out the most was the part that says you've played for 47 hours.... I can't do games past about 2-3 hours before my head hurts. I've played about 7 games in my CIV IV career that lasted about 5-10 hours and they were brutal. 47 hours and counting... jeez.

 

[Seraiel]

Well that makes one of us, because I certainly don't!

Just that you don't get me wrong, I noticed you using your brains in that post, so basically you were thinking, that's something I appreciate a lot, as my own experience with thinking is that it can become quite uncomfortable if done over a long amount of time .

Well... ok. I think my phrasing in earlier posts wasn't clear and it was a silly idea in the first place so fair enough.


Hmm I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing (probably because I explained things so well again... )

I wasn't certainly not trying to prove that Espionage is evil (or more evil? ), less effective than Research, or anything. You're saying that in a fair fight, Espionage kicks the ass of Research and I agree.

But I'm not trying to make a fair comparison between Research and Espionage, I'm trying to estimate if, given the multipliers you have at your disposal (including Academies of course!) if it is still interesting to steal Nationalism from a distant Civ rather than researching it. But with Nationhood, there's no doubt that you're right it's just we were not talking about the same point in your game hence the misunderstanding on that - was referring to when you spread Juda to Asoka, a few turns before trading Nationalism for Lib + Gold.

Hope I am clearer on my arguments and intentions! I do see now that with Nationhood my arguments don't really stand, I was thinking of a pre-Nationalism point of view I guess

(I don't want to get too off-topic so if you prefer responding by PM that's OK. If you prefer not responding at all that's OK as well )

Understood the question:

Comparing a Nationalism tech-steal from a far away AI to standard Research:





First screen shows that a tech-steal of Nationalism would cost 3500 (-50% from stationary Spy included) , compared to standard Research of Nationalism which would account with 5000 . 5000 is rougly 1.5 times as much as 3500 (to be exact, it's 1.43 times as much) so to research Nationalism as effectively as stealing it, 43% bonus to research would be needed.

I could take this math further and even show how much the bureacratic capital (the only city having more than 25% bonus) would count, so if its C=1.5*1.75 bonus would be enough, to lift all other cities above the mentioned 43%, but I guess I can quite safely assume that with 30 cities (like in this game) , it's impact on the Commerce is mentionable, but too small to make researching as effective as espionage.

Why was completing Economics a mistake?

And it's not my fault I didn't eat the pizza! Someone put mushrooms on it!

Researching Economics was a mistake, and has to do with me being "rigid" sometimes. I knew I didn't need Economics, I even did maths at that time whether the single free specialist or the foreign traderoutes would be better and surprisingly I found out, that in this very uncommon scenario (Conquest game, late stage, REP available, many Spy-Specialists possible) , Mercantilism really is the better Civic.

I then researched Economics for 2-3 turns initially because I wanted to learn if invested reduces the cost of in something, found out it didn't, and then I followed my stupid rule "to end something I begun" and argued with things like "well, maybe I'll be happy to have it when trading it against something" and similar, but from a non-subjective point of view, there was no need for Economics, neither there was for researching past Communism, so it'd have been way better if I had reached Communism earlier and converted the Gold / Science / whatever into Espionage for Spy Revolts.

What an amazingly detailed writeup. The part that stood out the most was the part that says you've played for 47 hours.... I can't do games past about 2-3 hours before my head hurts. I've played about 7 games in my CIV IV career that lasted about 5-10 hours and they were brutal. 47 hours and counting... jeez.

I understand you. There were times, when I couldn't play Civ for longer than 1h without a break, before my head hurt, and I had to take regularly breaks from it to even be able to play further. I think this is absolutely normal, and the 47h mainly show, that I played very slowly and took myself a long time to play single turns, sometimes, 1 session was only 1 turn, but in that turn, I made tons of decisions, and from a todays perspective I can say, most of them were right. I noticed a slight pattern of "insanity" in them, but as I learned, "there's always some reason" .

What this btw. also showed, was, that I had tremendous fun when playing this game.

Seraiel

 

[pomthom]

I could take this math further and even show how much the bureacratic capital (the only city having more than 25% bonus) would count, so if its C=1.5*1.75 bonus would be enough, to lift all other cities above the mentioned 43%, but I guess I can quite safely assume that with 30 cities (like in this game) , it's impact on the Commerce is mentionable, but too small to make researching as effective as espionage.

Fair enough, looks compelling here. I'll try some of this stuff out!

 

[Killroyan]

Waiting with anticipation to see this games ending. I hope you finish in time

 

[Seraiel]

I'll finish this writeup no matter what so don't worry. It's just that SGOTM is currently taking up my time and that I have this really nice game with BurgerKing atm. that's working out really well.

I'd be glad for some feedback on this game as it definately would help me find more motivation to continue what I started, thread is up to 10k clicks, many people didn't say too much lately. I know that the "end-game-style" probably was too early, so any advice / help / feedback on this is greatly appreciated.

 

[pomthom]

Very important comment alert:
BTW why the "µ" in the title? I guess it was to be pronounced "my" but isn't that pronounced "moo" or "mew" or something?

 

[totteswede]

Very important comment alert:
BTW why the "µ" in the title? I guess it was to be pronounced "my" but isn't that pronounced "moo" or "mew" or something?

It's pronounced "Mu" in English but "My" in many other languages, like German, Swedish and Ancient Greek for instance

Would also like to extend a big thank you to Seraiel for all the writeups. Although I can understand the tactical reasons for most of your decisions and try to learn from them, I am not really in a position to comment or suggest improvements to your gameplay as I am at a completely different level skillwise.

Still the reading is highly entertaining and educational

P.S. 4 years lurking, 5th time posting, consider yourself special for getting a post from me

 

[pomthom]

It's pronounced "Mu" in English but "My" in many other languages, like German, Swedish and Ancient Greek for instance

I suspected as much (in French it's prononced "mu" as well -- as in "mü")

 

[Seraiel]

You 2 saved my day yesterday .

 

[pomthom]

Well I must say that is class:

P.S. 4 years lurking, 5th time posting, consider yourself special for getting a post from me

 

[Roswinon]

I'll finish this writeup no matter what so don't worry. It's just that SGOTM is currently taking up my time and that I have this really nice game with BurgerKing atm. that's working out really well.

Please continue this write-up. I really appreciate your style in doing this Good luck with your current civ rounds! I'm sure you will have it because luck favours the strenuous

A long time lurker

 

[pomthom]

Another #1 post for Seraiel!

Welcome to the forums Roswinon

 

[Seraiel]

Hi you 2

I'll probably write an update on this story once my current SGOTM turnset is over (few days from now) .

Thanks for showing me that players are still readin this story and that you havn't forgotten me

 

[Seraiel]

New update after a long time...

We go back to:

920 AD: ETA = 53T.

Research doesn't play any significantly important role anymore. What matters, is, that Roosevelt gets beaten before he can reach Rifles, and that De Gaulle falls by the remaining Cho-Ko-Nu's and the mass Cavs that are produced over all cities and that roll towards him.

Drafting is so powerful, that 28 Rifles are ready for war only 9 turns after having traded for Nationalism. This allows me to operate with 2 Stacks:



I'm not 100% sure about if this is the right decision, because in 930 AD, so 52T before victory, even the aleady beaten De Gaulle manages to put up mentionable restistence still:



The city gets grinded down over multiple rounds by the amazingly strong CR3 Rifles, but even they only have 80%ish odds, so the already thin troops in France get thinned out even further...



But just when the heroes are beginning to lose hope, huge amounts of Cavalries reach them as reinforcements, the battle gets even more intense:



Something really unbelievable happens!



Yes, the chinese have found Truffles in 950 AD! It's unbelievable, while most of the heroes were busy fighting the troops in Orleons, Jester Fool, who was ordered to guard Paris, used the chance and blackmailed the owners of the Chicken Pizza to give him their secret recipe and they agreed!

The chinese are tricky people and they've just developed the Scientific Method, so they know exactly what to do: Use the Truffles against the French as a weapon, so they add a mutant virus to the Truffles, which makes the person that eats them speak english. No french in the world would tolerate being forced to speak such an, in their opinion ugly language, for the rest of his life, and so it comes that the remaining defenders of Orleons choose to suicide to the besieging heroes.



What a great day in Chinese history.

---------------------

Do you btw. remember that I said that drafting took the war to the next era?



It's good that it did, because neighbouring Pacal is slightly running away with his economy...



But first we come to Roosevelt, who gets invaded by Chinese Rifles in 960 AD, so it's only 49T to victory now!



970 AD: (48 Turns)



980 AD: (47 Turns)



1000 AD! Time to end this update with the following pictures:















---------------------

Props to kovacsflo for having played so many Huge games, and having become so fast.

 

[pomthom]

Love the screen with all the Cavs queued

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Many thanks for concluding the write up of this game. I'm sure that many players will use it as a guide for their own
games of conquest/domination.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Seraiel]

Love the screen with all the Cavs queued

Thx .

I love that most of them have 5 XP. 2nd promotion is truely powerful and Theocracy with a well spread Religion is too. Just think of all the drafted Rifles that all got 2 XP because of that, and also can spec Cover / Pinch / Whatever with it because of PRO.

Many thanks for concluding the write up of this game. I'm sure that many players will use it as a guide for their own
games of conquest/domination.

Sun Tzu Wu

If that would happen, I'd be very glad. It's interesting for me too to i. e. read, that I didn't know that Conquest-games could be ended with Rifles only, so without the use of Cannons. Today of course I know, and in my last game, I even managed Conquest without researching Communism, though Darius FIN / ORG helped a lot there.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Yes, drafting riflemen very early is extremely powerful with an adequate number of cities at over 6 population with enough excess happiness to draft at least twice per city. The conversion of 1 population into a 165H rifleman or 165H/1P (epic speed) can not be equaled in any era and amazing for the industrial era where 1P can be converted into units at 55H/1P (forge), 67H/1P (police state & forge), 78H/1P (bureaucracy & forge) and 90H/1P (police state & bureaucracy & forge). Adding a few trebuchets and catapults for seige or Chokonus for barraging and spies to destroy walls or support city revolts, makes rifleman nearly invincible versus mediaevil units.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[sinimusta]

Nice to see an update for this game. I'd like to see more of "the Heroes in action"- story, that was really funny.

@Sun Tzu Wu: Love that "mediaevil" typo. Or did you mean that riflemen excel at killing evil reporters?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Actually mediaevil is spelled correctly. It is British English. It is used often in the novel The Doomsday Book, a science fiction time travel story to the mediaevil era around the time of the black death in a small village not far from Oxford University; highly recommended for science fiction fans also interested in that era and how the peasants there lived in the time of the black death, often attributed to grave sins of those afflicted.

EDIT: As pointed out in a subsequent post by AutomatedTeller, Connie Willis, author of The Doomsday Book writes great science fiction books. She has won six Nebula awards, six Hugo Awards and a John W. Campbell Memorial Award. The Doomsday Book won both the Nebula and Hugo Awards. It is definitely science fiction at its very best!

Sun Tzu Wu