REX Queen Cathy: Because once is NOT enough!

[DMOC]

Whoa! How did Suryavarmann II suddenly go from being at a losing war with Vicky and Charlie to suddenly being the victor against both of them AND expanding as fast as cathy? That guy is insane...

 

[CivCorpse]

Ummm, antagonizing Vicky and Charlie might not be a great idea while they are superior in techs. Not that this makes them a threat, but it does mean you have no tech trading partners.
Couple of observations. You're in caste sytem but not running specialists. Atleast not many. May i suggest a switch to slavery until you whip some courthouses. Yakutsk in particular. A courthouse will save 5gpt aa opposed to the 2 1/2 gpt that the market place you are building will bring in. Plus you can use the EP's Sury is out EP'ing you by a good amount. Maybe switch focus to Charlemagne and steal a tech or two?
You could use a few more workers. You have some cities with a lot of undeleoped land and no worker assigned to them. Yaroslav could use one. If you farm 1W it will spread the irrigation 1SW. Maybe spread have him farm the other 2 grassland tiles. You can work them for a little bit to get to the happy cap. Then work the sea and mines.
In Moacow, if you switch a citizen from a plains forest to the rice you will grow in 9 turns vs 44 turns. After the city grows you put the new citizen on the plains forest again. And you will grow again in 18 more turns. It will only cost you 1 turn total in building the NE but it you will already have an extra pop to run as a specialist when it is done. Actually 2 more pop 1 turn after the NE is complete. Or you can put the new pop AND the citizen from the rice on plains forests and finish one turn sooner with one extra pop than your current ste up.

 

[CivCorpse]

One other note on slavery. when you whip, city maint goes DOWN because it is also tied to population size. That decreases the rate of bleeding. I know you have said she'd rather not whip. But it is a woman's perogative to change her mind. May I also point out that there is a shoe sale at Macy's and these citizens are spending her SHOPPING $$$$$$

 

[timmy827]

The amount city maintenance goes down by pop is really small...really a side benefit. I'm pretty sure it never is worth it for that reason unless there are literally no specialists slots or tiles producing anything that the whipped pop can work.

 

[Kesshi]

madscientist,

I tried this game. And I won't be spoiling anything you don't already know, so feel free to read the spoiler. I want to tell you how much I hate Cathy right now. Here's how my games went. (Yes, games, I tried more than once.)

Spoiler :

My first game was going well. I got some nice cities setup, and I was up to about 8 cities by around 1400BC, when things start going south.

First thing that went south was when four barbarian archers just spawned near me. Well, maybe they didn't just spawn near me. I think whomever built the Great Wall got the barbarian event, and the barbarians bee-lined to my civilization even though Charlie (who didn't build the great wall) was closer. Total hogwash. At the time I was in the process of learning Iron Working, and as you know there are no Horses and no Copper anywhere near starting. So basically, I had to whip out some warriors and archers in a low food production city and that really set back that city's development.

Very disappointing because that was a moderate production low food city, which was going to be my settler manufacturing city. I learned that the Imperialistic 50% Faster production to settlers only counts on HAMMERS not food. I consider this a bug, but anyways, it is what it is, and I planned on using that city for it due to it's high hammer output, but that didn't happen.

I survived, but just barely, I had two injured warriors left over after the attack. The lack of horses and copper mean I'm working with Warriors and Archers, and both are crap at attacking the archers pillaging my stuff.

I had built a city on the eastern coast, a decent production city for the low food it had, but once it grew and I chopped a bit it could easily reach and re-reach its happiness cap. I mananged to build the Great Lighthouse (I was going to try a coastal trade route economy until I got my SE up and running) then I targeted the Pyramids. However, I had no stone and was not Industrial. Even with two workers (pre-math) chopping the Pyramids under Organized Peligion (+25%), I still missed it by about 30 turns. THIRTY TURNS! I almost always get the Pyramids up and runnig before I see The ToA or The Oracle. But not with Cathy's traits.

I had about 10 cities and no currency at that point, with ZERO cottages, and my economy was still afloat at 50% science. Then someone else gets the Pyramids... I didn't even check to see who, I just ended the game right there.

So I tried againg. This time I opted to go for a religious Economy. I researched Bronze Working first (to chop and whip early) and got my first city built well before 3000 BC! Then I went for Mysticism, Masonry, Polytheism, Monotheism. And guess what? Halfway through researching Poly, somebody found Judaism. That's right, Judaism before I could even START to research Monotheism. in 2900BC. Again, my plans for an economy was squashed before it even started.

I was so frustrated I simply quit. The first game Judaism wasn't founded until nearly 1000 years later, why oh why when I am bee-lining for something can I not get it? I was purposfully working that minned gold for the extra commerce, but noooo, misses I don't start with mysticism can't research it in time. Bah! I really hate Cathy. Industrial > Creative in so many ways. With Industrial I can build Stonehenge, then not worry about culture just like I do with Creative, and go on to wonderspam in a few cities while building an economy elsewhere.

No Stone. No Marble. No Copper. No Horses. And I don't mean in my big fat cross, I mean ANYWHERE NEAR ME. And to top it all off, with Cathy's starting techs, no religion. Aaaaand no Industrial.

That start was total crap for my play style. If I were Industrial I could have done something with it, but alas, Cathy's traits are horrible for my playstyle, and I hate her even more now.

I'm so frustrated with her, I'd take a single trait, Industrial, and nothing else over Cathy's traits. All I wanted was TWO wonders. Only two. And I couldn't even pull them off with both chopping and whipping!

At the same time I'm laughing to myself because Cathy used to be my favourite leader of them all.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

madscientist,

I tried this game. And I won't be spoiling anything you don't already know, so feel free to read the spoiler. I want to tell you how much I hate Cathy right now. Here's how my games went. (Yes, games, I tried more than once.)

Spoiler :

My first game was going well. I got some nice cities setup, and I was up to about 8 cities by around 1400BC, when things start going south.

First thing that went south was when four barbarian archers just spawned near me. Well, maybe they didn't just spawn near me. I think whomever built the Great Wall got the barbarian event, and the barbarians bee-lined to my civilization even though Charlie (who didn't build the great wall) was closer. Total hogwash. At the time I was in the process of learning Iron Working, and as you know there are no Horses and no Copper anywhere near starting. So basically, I had to whip out some warriors and archers in a low food production city and that really set back that city's development.

Very disappointing because that was a moderate production low food city, which was going to be my settler manufacturing city. I learned that the Imperialistic 50% Faster production to settlers only counts on HAMMERS not food. I consider this a bug, but anyways, it is what it is, and I planned on using that city for it due to it's high hammer output, but that didn't happen.

I survived, but just barely, I had two injured warriors left over after the attack. The lack of horses and copper mean I'm working with Warriors and Archers, and both are crap at attacking the archers pillaging my stuff.

I had built a city on the eastern coast, a decent production city for the low food it had, but once it grew and I chopped a bit it could easily reach and re-reach its happiness cap. I mananged to build the Great Lighthouse (I was going to try a coastal trade route economy until I got my SE up and running) then I targeted the Pyramids. However, I had no stone and was not Industrial. Even with two workers (pre-math) chopping the Pyramids under Organized Peligion (+25%), I still missed it by about 30 turns. THIRTY TURNS! I almost always get the Pyramids up and runnig before I see The ToA or The Oracle. But not with Cathy's traits.

I had about 10 cities and no currency at that point, with ZERO cottages, and my economy was still afloat at 50% science. Then someone else gets the Pyramids... I didn't even check to see who, I just ended the game right there.

So I tried againg. This time I opted to go for a religious Economy. I researched Bronze Working first (to chop and whip early) and got my first city built well before 3000 BC! Then I went for Mysticism, Masonry, Polytheism, Monotheism. And guess what? Halfway through researching Poly, somebody found Judaism. That's right, Judaism before I could even START to research Monotheism. in 2900BC. Again, my plans for an economy was squashed before it even started.

I was so frustrated I simply quit. The first game Judaism wasn't founded until nearly 1000 years later, why oh why when I am bee-lining for something can I not get it? I was purposfully working that minned gold for the extra commerce, but noooo, misses I don't start with mysticism can't research it in time. Bah! I really hate Cathy. Industrial > Creative in so many ways. With Industrial I can build Stonehenge, then not worry about culture just like I do with Creative, and go on to wonderspam in a few cities while building an economy elsewhere.

No Stone. No Marble. No Copper. No Horses. And I don't mean in my big fat cross, I mean ANYWHERE NEAR ME. And to top it all off, with Cathy's starting techs, no religion. Aaaaand no Industrial.

That start was total crap for my play style. If I were Industrial I could have done something with it, but alas, Cathy's traits are horrible for my playstyle, and I hate her even more now.

I'm so frustrated with her, I'd take a single trait, Industrial, and nothing else over Cathy's traits. All I wanted was TWO wonders. Only two. And I couldn't even pull them off with both chopping and whipping!

At the same time I'm laughing to myself because Cathy used to be my favourite leader of them all.

You have to play the map. Sometimes cottages work out better . No, my name isn't DaveMCW. I swear.

To me the bigger limitation is no DoW, but at least the REX can make up for that a bit by getting serviceable #'s of cities without war or making yourself look really weak so the AI comes after you.

 

[madscientist]

REX and no DoW unprovoked ar ebig issues in this RPC. The REX can only get better, but no DoW means I have to go to war with Sury on his terms. And I am fearing the creepy alien dude is immune to Cathy's charms, Victoira seams immune too! In fact Cathy is getting fed up with these morons on this continent and the only person who likes Cathy is an impotent old man who cannot even defend himself.

Cathy needs new people in her life, and if she has to tick off the entire continent to do so, so be it.

 

[madscientist]

As far as the whip, I am planning to run several merchants once Cathy bankrupts her treasury again, so I prefer not to leave caste system.

 

[Kesshi]

You have to play the map. Sometimes cottages work out better . No, my name isn't DaveMCW. I swear.

To me the bigger limitation is no DoW, but at least the REX can make up for that a bit by getting serviceable #'s of cities without war or making yourself look really weak so the AI comes after you.

Spoiler :

TheMeInTeam,

You know my firey hatred for the cottage economy. I can manage a trade route economy, but that requires fewer cities due to lack of available routes, so that isn't viable here. I can manage a religious economy (Priests + shrines) but with the lack of Mysticism and Vicky around, that isn't available here until well after I go bankrupt. I can manage a Specialist Economy, but with the lacking of stone and Industrial, that kinda isn't available here. I can manage a diplomatic economy as well, but with the availability of resources, it wouldn't work to well on this map. I can even manage a war enocomy, where I sustain my economy by pillaging and razing cities, but obviously this isn't available here either. But a cottage economy? It's so inefficient compared to the rest that I never learned to play one well.

This leader + map combination made me curse many times while playing.

 

[CivCorpse]

As far as the whip, I am planning to run several merchants once Cathy bankrupts her treasury again, so I prefer not to leave caste system.

Whip a marketplace then. They grow back. It also means you have longer before you are bankrupt. LOL, but you and I are never ever ever going to agree on the economy.

 

[madscientist]

REX Queen Cathy: PArt IV

No flirtations or anything this segment, Cathy means business!!!

Techpath went: Machinery/Paper/education (mostly bulbed)/PP (after bulbing with a GS)/Phil/Lib (first there @ 1350 AD)/Economics (Got the GM) and saved. We also made several trades.

No more cities were built as we ran out of room but we did add, let's discuss.

First one of several surprising items.

Charlemagne built it and his 3 measely cities are not enough to elect himself. We are in control of the AP.

Power numbers at this point show Sury ahead of us but definitely in a big tech hole.

At this point Sury DoWs on Victoria and we get this surprising request.

Hmmm... Now technically we cna accept this even though it leads to war. Well, I am allowing it!!! We accept her a vassal starting a war with Sury. To win the game Sury must be destroyed entirely.

Another key item

We FINALLY culture flipped the horses to us, just in time!!!

We march a decent stack up the western shore, including war elephants which essentially negate Sury's UU.

We took the city and rebuilt a new force as the city just NE has a very valuable wonder.

Since it looks like We shall be first to education we decide to backfill techs, especially the middle age techs we can use against Sury.

Victoira took a beating and has 1 city left. We retook one of the former English cities.

And the last middle age tech we wanted

We captured the last Khmerian city of this segment

Which had

The SoZ! Too bad Sury also has the pyramids, for now. Otherwise I would have rammed all that damned WW down his throat.

As it were

We accept peace, rebuilding some massive armies to launch our second attack. Cathy swear vengence against the filthy Khmerian, how dare he attack us after we vassaled his bitter enemy!

We then popped a GS which we used for a Golden Age, speeding up liberalism (just incase the other continent get's it.) and allowing civics changes.

We finish liberalism first

We take nationalism and revolt to nationhood. This was done for increased espionage, barracks happiness, and a cheaper tehc. Oh yeah, I guess we can draft, we need a good GT city.

We trade liberalism off

And start economics and eventually catchup to Victoria, getting the GM first.

We ran a caravel overseas and met those leaders.

Crazy MONTY. And if declares war on us we are forced to completely destroy him!

We trade literature for gold and a map from Zara and then met the last AI.

OK, Mao is a rational leader.

We saved after getting the free GM

Our continent.

We also have enough espionage to see the content of all of Sury's cities. The bulk of his army is poised to attack Victoria's last city. I may just let him take it wiping her our then reclaim it.

On the Power numbers side, we are getting ahead of Sury.

So my questions are

1) What do we use the GM for??? Save for a corp, a trade mission to fund research, or settle in Moscow???

2) About Sury. Do we attack now or get banks/grocers built and attack with Cossacks?

3) Victory condtions??? Depends what the moron on teh continent does. If he leaves us alone I say space is a sure thing (work the UB again!), otherwise conquest as I expect to get over the domination limit before destroying Aztecia, but that may change.

 

[CivCorpse]

Nice round. SoZ is a huge capture since the war with Sury is going to be a long one.
I found your GT city. It is the Khmer Capital. It has 3clams and grassland cows. It also has the Hanging Gardens, GLH, Colossus, MoM, and the Great Wall. MoM, could prove awesome for space race Golden Ages.
London can be hit on the first turn of the war. The majority of his defenders there are balista phants and catapults. Neither of which get the 25% fortification bonus. He has 1 Lb and 1 swordsman there. It also cripples him militarily. The rest of his empire is lightly defended. I reccommend spies to drop defenses. In Yabbadabbado (his capital) he has walls and a castle so use a spy. Taking London also takes Chichen itza and The Mids. If he declares on You (which i doubt because your power ranking plus Vicky and chrlie is too high), I am not sure he has the troops to take Nottingham for you.
Start cranking out troops and hit him before he grows back.

You may want to consider a civics switch to mercantilism. You are almost completely getting domestic routes anyway. And the free specialist can be one of the merchants you are running everywhere. One last thought on the economy. Courthouses. You need courthouses in your cities. The new cities are a huge drain and you need courthouses. Bryansk is building a theatre? It no longer feels cutltural pressure but it is bleeding 8gpt.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

Build monestaries! So you can go FR later in the game and have tons of religions in your cities as well as easy to build temples..

Otherwise so far so good.

How about an diplomatic win? Everyone loves Cathy Once you take out Sury you should try for a Diplomatic win.

 

[Killroyan]

I would save the great merchant indeed for sushi corp. Once you own the continent you will have an abundance of seafood especially with the Khmer capital with 3 clams

Great game so far. Are you going to focus on cossacks so we can see if they are still very effective against everything?

 

[redmosquito]

no AP religion in southern cities. could have been a boost to production.

 

[madscientist]

@ CivCorpse: Actually I think that London force is aimed at Victoria. I am thinking of letting Sury waste his army on Vicky while we systematically go round the coast, choking his commerce and getting immediate trade routes from those cities. As you said, he is lightly defended. Still, I could plop an army in Vicky's lands and hit him fast. I 'll decide later.

@ Killroya: Actually I think cossacks are going to be ignored this game. Sury should fall long before them, and I think the other continent can wait until infantry/tanks if need be. Unfortunate 2 Cathy RPCs without Cossack action, but we did get more than adequate use from them in the Stalin game.

 

[reknaw]

We FINALLY culture flipped the horses to us, just in time!!!

Vassals cannot culturally own any tiles in any of your cities fat crosses. You got the horse because she became your vassal.

 

[madscientist]

Vassals cannot culturally own any tiles in any of your cities fat crosses. You got the horse because she became your vassal.

WOW, I did not know this! Thanks!

 

[cripp7]

if you let Sury takeout Vicky in trade her for all the techs that she has before that happens. But for the economy, definitely courthouses will help a lot, but I think you are aware of that. Great game so far! I am still a noble player and you make Monarch look easy

 

[DesertRogues]

Nice game so far, I am surprised Zara is so weak in this game, he's usually right up there in games I play, must have had a "disagreement" with Monty.
I would like to see you send boatloads of T-34's over to visit Monty later in the game if for no other reason than it's Monty for Christs sake! Always up for a good beat down of Monty.