[RFC Dawn of Civ] The Alternative History of France

[thecaesar]

-gasp- YOU DARE SUGGEST RAZING THE ETERNAL CITY?!?!?

 

[christos200]

Athens is the eternal city. Burn rome.

 

[Jwitti]

FYI, Roma was much more influential and still is much more influential. Actually, Athens probably will never again surpass Rome in influence and power.

Gamewise, I always keep Roma because A) It has the Colliseum, my favorite RFC wonder, and B) it is usually the HC for Christianity, so it carries influence.

 

[hoplitejoe]

But Athens had Plato therefore it wins.

 

[Jwitti]

Rome has: Caesar (all) IIRC Copernicus, by the extention of Italy da Vinci, Medici, Marco Polo, Columbus, Pliny, and more. Plus Pope Saint Gregory the Great (who created the calander we all use), Pope John Paul the Great (although he is Polish) who helped end Communism, and plenty of other Roman and Italian scientists, merchants, generals, religious leaders, artists, inventors, and the like.

Spoiler :

If you didn't notice, I really like Roma.

 

[Linkman226]

But Athens had Plato therefore it wins.

Indeed. And Rome has the patron saint of ignorance and pedophiles everywhere, the Pope. Auto-loss.

Rome has: Caesar (all) IIRC Copernicus, by the extention of Italy da Vinci, Medici, Marco Polo, Columbus, Pliny, and more. Plus Pope Saint Gregory the Great (who created the calander we all use), Pope John Paul the Great (although he is Polish) who helped end Communism, and plenty of other Roman and Italian scientists, merchants, generals, religious leaders, artists, inventors, and the like.

Spoiler :

If you didn't notice, I really like Roma.

I laughed a solid five minutes at the bit about the Papacy ending communism.

EDIT: I managed to control my laughter enough to read it again, only to be thrown into hysterics by your referencing of Columbus as Roman or as a good person.

And Copernicus was Polish. That wasn't even funny, just distasteful. And your beloved Pope persecuted this man. Jesus, have you ever read a history textbook?

 

[thecaesar]

@ Jwitti: THANK you!

Rome was definitely the most powerful and advanced empire ever, if an empire is compared to other countries of it's time period. No one in the world at the time, except maybe the chinese, could have taken on Rome at the peak of their power; they were the near undisputed masters of the world, as well as one of the most influential civilizations on the planet.

Admittedly, much of the Roman's technology and ideology came from greece, but the Romans certainly did not copy; they improved and refined almost every process, weapon, and city they came in contact with. Almost everything Roman was borrowed and improved on from another group of people, primarily the Etruscans and Greeks.

The Romans and Greeks respected each other for their individual strengths, as well. Rome respected and admired Greece's superior culture, while the Greeks had healthy respect for roman ingenuity and military. The only thing that provoked Rome to war was the Greeks pirating Roman trading ships.

 

[Jwitti]

Indeed. And Rome has the patron saint of ignorance and pedophiles everywhere, the Pope. Auto-loss.



I laughed a solid five minutes at the bit about the Papacy ending communism.

EDIT: I managed to control my laughter enough to read it again, only to be thrown into hysterics by your referencing of Columbus as Roman or as a good person.

And Copernicus was Polish. That wasn't even funny, just distasteful. And your beloved Pope persecuted this man. Jesus, have you ever read a history textbook?

I have. I regret your assumption that all priests are pedophiles. I could easily say that all teachers are pedophiles due to the few who are. Pope John Paul II was not solely responsible for the end of communism, but he was a major contributing factor. I apologize for my forgetfulness for Copernicus, though. Or was that another critique?

As a Catholic, I am disturbed by the world's outlook that all priests are pedophiles. About catholic idiocy, I could find so many Catholic scientists who have made a difference, and so many who are smarter than you appear to be.

I do not mean to bash you personally, however, I refuse to resort to it. I do not subscribe to mudslinging, nor will I stand for it.

So you know, I don't lie here. I may have some misinformation, and I apologize for not being infallible and omniscient. But if you point out a fallacy in my information please tell me.

Columbus was not Roman (however, I believe he was Italian, no?) nor do I suggest that he was a good person. But he did have the courage to go where everyone else thought was the edge of the earth.

Can we go back to a more pleasant topic, please?

 

[Linkman226]

Notice that I didn't say that Catholic priests are all pedophiles. What I said is that the Pope is the patron saint of them, that is to say, he protects them from the law. A pedo schoolteacher would be tried and brought to trial. For quite the time, this wasn't the case for priests thanks to the Pope.

Two more historical inaccuracies:

No one really knows where Columbus was from with definitive certainty.

People stopped believing that the earth was flat, long, long before him. This is a misconception caused by the idiotic schooling system we have. In any event he basically got lucky.

And yes, we can return to pleasant topics if you so desire.

 

[Jwitti]

OK, I apologize for the Columbus Debacle... All I know for sure is that he eventually asked Isabella and Ferdinand..

I am fairly certain that the priests in question were disciplined by the Church, although they should also have been tried under the courts of the nation they were in (USA) in my opinion. But I do not question their logic at this time (I'm really too young to worry about it and it's none of my business)

To pleasant topics, onward!

 

[thecaesar]

Awwwww... I thought we were talking about Rome... Not Roma...

 

[christos200]

Rome has: Caesar (all) IIRC Copernicus, by the extention of Italy da Vinci, Medici, Marco Polo, Columbus, Pliny, and more. Plus Pope Saint Gregory the Great (who created the calander we all use), Pope John Paul the Great (although he is Polish) who helped end Communism, and plenty of other Roman and Italian scientists, merchants, generals, religious leaders, artists, inventors, and the like.

Spoiler :

If you didn't notice, I really like Roma.

Greece has Homer, King Leonidas, Pericles, Herodotus, Hippocrates, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Herophilos, Paulus Aegineta, Pedanius Dioscorides, Thales of Miletus, Pythagoras, Diophantus of Alexandria, Euclid, Eratosthenes, Alexander the Great, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Ptolemy, Archimedes, Hypatia, Basil II, Alexios Komnenos, Gemistos Plethon, El Greco, Pope John VII, Nilus the Younger, Antipope John XV, Barlaam of Seminara, Leontius Pilatus, Antonio de Ferraris, John Argyris, Georgios Papanikolaou and many others.

 

[Icaria909]

Guys, u can't compare Greece in the fifth century to Italy during the Renaissance. There is no way you could measure something like that. Each contributed greatly to the advancement of western civilization. Otherwise you just end up bashing people and countries, which is really not productive.

 

[Alexius08]

Greece has Homer, King Leonidas, Pericles, Herodotus, Hippocrates, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Herophilos, Paulus Aegineta, Pedanius Dioscorides, Thales of Miletus, Pythagoras, Diophantus of Alexandria, Euclid, Eratosthenes, Alexander the Great, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Ptolemy, Archimedes, Hypatia, Basil II, Alexios Komnenos, Gemistos Plethon, El Greco, Pope John VII, Nilus the Younger, Antipope John XV, Barlaam of Seminara, Leontius Pilatus, Antonio de Ferraris, John Argyris, Georgios Papanikolaou and many others.

The Greek UP in RFC starts to show off.

 

[clearmurky]

Subbed. Just as a general fact, Germany defeats all.

 

[christos200]

Greece deafets all. I can prove how brave modern greeks are:

Around 1770, Haci Osman with 16,000 men besieged the two towers in Kastania. The defenders were Constantine Kolokotronis and Panagiotes Venetsanakis with 150 men and women. The fight lasted for twelve days: most of the defenders were killed, and all prisoners of war were tortured and dismembered. The wife of Constantine Kolokotronis was dressed like a warrior and fought her way out carrying her baby, Theodoros Kolokotronis, the future commander of the Greek War of Independence.

Now tell me a german army less than 150 men and women that defended for twelve days against an army of 16,000 men.

 

[clearmurky]

I don't know, but if I were to take a side, I'd choose Rome over Greece. Did ONE Greek defend against an army of Savage Etruscans numbering 10,000? Look at the odds in each, and tell me: Horatius at the Bridge or Constantine Kolokotronis. But, I am from neither background, but I am German, and I take both Latin and Ancient Greek at school.

 

[christos200]

And 300 greeks defended against 1.000.000 persians.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Guys, please don't turn this story into a battling ground for nationalism.

Please be respectful.

I root for whatever country is in a story when I read it and I don't root for others or bash them either.
Great story, heitorcccp, I look forward to seeing you crush Germany and seize England.

 

[hoplitejoe]

Nationalism just make me laugh