RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

Responses:

Well why wouldn't it help them? And they don't need a "new UU", they can just have Musketmen, who when drafted are called "Janissaries". That would be the best UP for them IMO.


Well just let the Cordobans start with more Muslim Missionaries, and have them start off with being Muslim, rather than having them convert! And I'm just saying in general that quite a few independent cities, deserve to have a religion. Palermo, should have Catholicism, Judaism and Islam, and the same goes for Cordoba, where Judaism and Catholicism should spread to it. Just make the Cordoban AI resist converting to other religions.

Also as for the Vikings, I would have starting around 1000 AD have Catholicism spread automatically to some of their cities, or else they become Orthodox Christian :crazyeye:


Good! But what have you changed it to?


Well thats what happened historically, and historically Cordoba did not have much friends. And anyway in my last game I had open borders with the Burgundians, the Norse and the Germans, and don't think its that big of a deal. And anyway you said the Cordobans were a tad OP, so having the Cordobans and the Arabs on bad terms is good, and why do they need to declare war? Basically they should be first Furious with each other and then Annoyed, and then farther on, their tempers can be reset from that fateful day in 750 AD.


Ok, I'm sorry but who ever said that the Battle of Tours was "not significant" is an idiot. And I know I can still invade an "unstable" territory, but thats the thing, it makes you unstable! And the Cordoban AI will never want to take it! The Battle of Tours was VERY important, and those territories should DEFINITELY be added to their maps. In fact if I were you, I would add "Muslim Barbarians" who attack the Southern French cities. That would be great fun!
In that same way Sicily should ALSO be added to the Arab OK stability map, or else that would be ridiclous, plus seeing an Arab Sicily would be hella cool :D Especially if you have to fight a war to remove them from it. In the past I actually have seen the AI Arabs take it, and when I play as the Arabs I always make it a goal to capture Sicily


Surprisingly though, when I took Toulouse, the French never tried to take it back :confused: Shouldn't they be jumping at me to capture that territory, which should be considered "theirs". And by the way I captured it from the inde's.


Oh good! :)
But why not Anqutine and Provence? Can't you just make them "OK" provinces to attack/settle?
Also I hope you make the changes to the Cordoban settler maps for Toulouse and others. The website provided should make your life A LOT easier ;)




Ok I'm sorry, but thats just absurd, completely absurd. You need to AT LEAST have the the religion in that city to build it, if not have your state religion match it, or else thats just weird and plain not fun, when you have the Cordobans building everything. I mean how can the Sistine Chapel be built in Damascus?? PLEASE change each religious wonder to a specific religion, or else this is just crazy talk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Comments:

Also if you want, I was thinking that for the Austrian 3rd UHV you can rename it, instead of "Habsburg Alliances", "Holy Alliance" (a famous one between Prussia, Austria and Russia)

Another thing was that why not you remove the "beavers" who are totally out of place, and add in another graphic for "furs", I know Edead did that for SoI, and instead added in leopards which made more sense. You should consider making the change as well. Perhaps bears?

Also shoulden't Temple Mount be pre-placed in Jerusalem, since its ALREADY been built by this time? I mean your not making a mod about the Ancient Hebrews :lol:

Another problem is that Marco Polo's Embassy is being built WAYYYYYY too early, do you mind moving it up the tech tree :)
And Militarism so early on does not make sense in the European style. Having Vassalage early on is fine IMO. Can't you just change it back to later in the tech tree:sad:

And lastly, for the love of God, please change the "Masjid Al-Haram" which is situated in Mecca (not even on this map :crazyeye:), and just change its name to, "The Great Mosque of Damascus" OR "The Ummayad Mosque"
And on that note, can you please change the Muslim holy city to Jerusalem, it just makes SOO much more sense, since Jerusalem is the third holiest city in Islam. Also if the Crusaders take it, it will make more sense for the Arabs to want to get it back.

Also I know your still working on civ names (at least I think you are), but why not you change the German Kingdom to "Holy Roman Empire", because frankly the HRE is not at all very well represented in this mod :(
Also on the note of name's for the "Arabic Knowledge" tech, it should instead be called, "Arab Knowledge". Also shouldn't it be moved back? At least on the same level as Gunpowder if not even a layer behind that. It just seems way too far in the tech tree.
And the Austrians shouldn't start with so many useless Archers, IMO just remove those 5 archers, and give them 2-3 crossbowmen.

When playing as Austria, I flipped Salzburg a German city and they declared war on me. Can you make it so that the Germans and Austrians are on very good terms with each other, because historically in the 13th century weren't they part of the SAME Empire even? So IMO they really should be best of friends

And VERY lastly, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remove Joan of Arc as a French Leader and instead use the Clovis I LH that has been made, and I know you already have Charlemagne so you can rename the Clovis LH to another leader after Charlemagne, but its just TOO ridiculous that Joan of Arc is a leader of the entire French nation.

Okay, I don't want to start an argument anyway so I'll stay silent for now...
 
@Turk:

2. Do you want to edit the city name maps. I can send you a file with Arabia so that you can edit their map using the World Builder.

8. Bulgar should be Bolghar.

I'm happy they've expanded their settler horizons now that you've added Oran to their settler maps

Are you playing Beta 8 or a working version from the svn? Also, Stability maps have nothing to do with Settlers maps.
 
Can we please just turn the map of Europe into OK territory for the Muslim stability maps? This will pre-empt about 50% of the Turk's comments, perhaps leaving the other 50% to be valuable comments.

FakeShady, please stop quoting the Turk's idiotic rambles so I don't have to see him, I have him on ignore for a reason, but whenever quoted I see his moronic statements like "Sicily should ALSO be added to the Arab OK stability map" or "Jerusalem should be renamed Palestine because it is more authentic" or "But why not Anqutine and Provence? Can't you just make them "OK" provinces to attack/settle?"

For crying out loud... those regions weren't held, where they? Doesn't that show, potentially, that just maybe they WERE NOT STABLE AREAS for the "arabs"...

Basically, if a muslim ever stepped foot on an inch of ground in combat, Turk seems to think it should be "OK", never mind the culture of the original inhabitants (I mean, in history the muslims never did, so why should they in his mind today)... never mind that only through very DE-STABILIZING practices did the muslims rule anywhere in Europe for any period of time (stealing children to create the treasured "Janissaries" for example, the extreme discrimination non-muslims faced, etc, etc, etc). Hundreds of years later we are still dealing with the Ottoman invasion and destabilization of the Balkans... thanks a lot!?

Man... someone please stop this madness.
Moderator Action: Rather stop the trolling first.

To stay on topic...
Do not add Sicily, or any other area held for less than 200 years, to anyone's stability map, arab/muslim/european/christian/whoever/whatever.

Sicily shouldn't be on anyone's stability map, in all reality...
 
FakeShady, please stop quoting the Turk's idiotic rambles so I don't have to see him, I have him on ignore for a reason,

I quoted it just for you ;) no but really, that was only half of it

Man... someone please stop this madness.
hey kochman, did you read that post where the Turk said he will appreciate if i stop the "petty comments"? :lol:

By the way, this post is not off-topic, cos Germany is still too powerful and needs to be nerfed.

EDIT: After much self reflection and thought, i have changed my mind. I would like to support the idea of renaming the area of "Jerusalem" to "Palestine" and suggest renaming of the area of "Poland" to "Lahestan". Its just more authentic like that.

Moderator Action: Trolling is not allowed here.
If you can't contribute in a civil way, then don't post.
 
@Turk:

2. Do you want to edit the city name maps. I can send you a file with Arabia so that you can edit their map using the World Builder.

8. Bulgar should be Bolghar.

Are you playing Beta 8 or a working version from the svn? Also, Stability maps have nothing to do with Settlers maps.

Ya, sure if you want you can send it to me you can at the[dot]turkciv[at]gmail[dot]com
I'd love to help. I'll also fix the Bulgar mistake

Also I'm constantly updating the SVN, which amazingly you guys update ALL the time, which is really great! I love to see the work going into this mod.

Anyway, overall for the past day or two I've been posting up a lot of suggestions/ideas for this mod, take some of them, leave out some of them, I just hope some of them get realized :)

@Fakeshady
Spoiler :
Stop replying to my comments, and wasting space on this thread. Thank You.
 
3. I never see the Arabs respawn correctly. Once they collapse, they should immediately respawn, but not in Damascus but in Egypt with a capital at Cairo. This way the Crusaders will have a tough time holding on to the Levant. For extra shits and giggles I would recommend having a respawning Arabia with Egypt and Damascus, to represent the Ayyuibd Sultanate, and you could then have a Saladin type army ready to recapture the Holy Land, only to have a Richard the Lionheart GG spawn there as well. That would be pretty awesome :smug:

It wouldn't be awesome if they respawn immediately. This makes Arabia "uncollapsable". They can't die this way. It wouldn't be fair.
 
It wouldn't be awesome if they respawn immediately. This makes Arabia "uncollapsable". They can't die this way. It wouldn't be fair.

Oh but its historical. And anything that happened in Middle Eastern history must or should be represented in this mod.

You see there were several caliphates, and everytime one collapses another shoulld respawn within 10 turns. Its just more historical like that. There was:

1. The Rashidun Caliphate. Under their rule people were given much religious freedom. From wikipedia: "the Caliphs lowered taxes, provided greater local autonomy (to their delegated governers), greater religious freedom for Jews, and some indigenous Christians, and brought peace to peoples demoralized and disaffected by the casualties and heavy taxation that resulted from the decades of Byzantine-Persian warfare.[7]"

I would like to suggest that the Arabs get +10 happiness in all cities as a result. Sounds historical to me.

2. The Umayyads Caliphate, based in Damascus. Arabia should respawn immendiately after its first collapse in Damascus.

3. Abbasids Caliphate, which cultivated great cultural and intellectual development during their reign. I therefore suggest that Arabs get +5 culture and +15 beakers per specialist during this period.

4. The Fatimid Caliphate, based in Cairo, or Al-Qahira.

All these caliphates existed and none of them should be left out. Right now in this game the middle eastern civs are extremely under-represented.

More comments coming up :cool:
 
@ Fakeshady

It isn't funny what you posted above. :nono: So please stop picking at the Turk. And if you can't hold it, please open a text file and post everything you want to say in that file, so we don't have to read all that non-related stuff.
 
It wouldn't be awesome if they respawn immediately. This makes Arabia "uncollapsable". They can't die this way. It wouldn't be fair.

LOL! Yes that would be unfair :p

No, what I meant by "immediately" (and sorry for the bad terminology used, English is my second language), was not 300 turns later. So basically what could happen is that you would have three potential respawn options for the Arabs, so it would be:

909 AD (Fatimids)
1171 AD (Ayyubid --- Saladin)
1250 (Mamluks)
So for example if the Arabs collapse in 1120 AD, they would respawn in 1171 AD as the Ayyubid Sultanate (with the name change)
That would be an easy way of doing it, or else you could have instead after 15-20 turns the Arabs respawn in Cairo (thats why Cairo NEEDS to spawn on the date I provided below), and have them want to move up against the Crusaders, or else as I have seen its smooth sailing for the Crusaders once they collapse the Arabs, which frankly should not happen, because as for those of you who have studied the Crusades, the Arabs (often disunited), were always annoyed by their presence in the Levant (but in this game they seem to go much farther than that). Also another Barbarian group which could attack the Cruaders especially, but as well as the Arabs would be the Zengids, who attacked time and time again, against the Crusaders, Nur ad-Din Zengi, among others fought many battles against the Crusaders and made their presence in the Levant a hard one. They would spawn in 1127-1128 (1128 they actually captured Aleppo and later Antioch).

Also talking about the Crusaders, have you guys ever thought about having a "Kingdom of Jerusalem" civilization? Basically you would have all the countries give some troops, but instead of electing a leader, all those units would spawn as Kingdom of Jerusalem (non-playable) soldiers, who would then try to capture Jerusalem and its environs. IMO it would look more historically correct, and you'd be able to control the KoJ faction better, since it is non-playable. You could even have an event which they either call on their own or once one of their cities fall, they can call for reinforcements another crusade in general. I don't know, its up for you guys to decide on that.


And finally, one city above Tyre but underneath Antioch would be useful, especially for the Crusaders to capture, since the Levant in general looks a tad bare.
 
There is something in the code which gives civs have a bigger chance to respawn. We can give the Arabs a bigger chance to respawn at those dates. But it should only be a bigger chance, not a certain thing, otherwise it would be too deterministic.

I think we realy should stop adding more civs. BTW, the Kingdom of Jerusalem will make the whole crusader feature useless and the Arabs won't be able to cope with the massive stability hit they would suffer.
EDIT: I didn't read you post carefully. But you won't be able to control Jerusalem with that idea. (And controlling Jerusalem is one of the nice things of the Crusaders)
 
There is something in the code which gives civs have a bigger chance to respawn. We can give the Arabs a bigger chance to respawn at those dates. But it should only be a bigger chance, not a certain thing, otherwise it would be too deterministic.

I think we realy should stop adding more civs. BTW, the Kingdom of Jerusalem will make the whole crusader feature useless and the Arabs won't be able to cope with the massive stability hit they would suffer.
EDIT: I didn't read you post carefully. But you won't be able to control Jerusalem with that idea. (And controlling Jerusalem is one of the nice things of the Crusaders)

I am working on the respawn code now. More features would be added including such things as Mamluks. The current code seems to have some bugs in it.

There is no point in adding a small Crusader Kingdom, control of Jerusalem is a goal for the Catholics major players, "kingdom" is a loose term anyway, with rulers, vassals, political marriages and so on.
 
Respawning Arabia is ok but I really dont like that they steal away Alexandria from the Byzantines even if they are stable, just that city should be removed from respawning area!
 
@ Fakeshady

It isn't funny what you posted above. :nono:

i wasnt trying to be funny :confused: i just feel that the middle eastern civs right now are very badly represented and way too weak. Especially the Seljuks and the Ottomans. For example, why is the Masjid al-Haram in Damascus? Why isnt Jerusalem, the third holiest city in Islam, the holy city of Islam in the game? Besides, that area is called Palestine, is it not? Why arent the countless respawns of the Arabian Caliphates more accurately represented?

Why isnt Siciliy in Arab's "ok" zone? From wikipedia "During the seventh and eight centuries, Sicily had been raided from Ifriqiya. The eventual Arab-Muslim conquest of Byzantine Sicily was piecemeal and slow".

These changes are definitely do-able

Moderator Action: Stop the trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Why are repeated, offensive, outrageous remarks from the Turk ok, but from others not?
Moderator Action: Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed in this forum.
If you have a problem with an action, then PM me or one of the supermoderators.

And if you see a problematic post, then report it, don't respond to it.

The_J
 
I think this thread alone has seen the most moderator action without it bieng closed... :p

Back to the topic at hand, I do have to agree though that it would be nice to see the Arabs respawn more to represent the different Caliphates.

Played a game as Spain earlier and got to lead a crusade, captured Jerusalem and the Arabs collapsed. When they did, I noticed that a city just north of Jerusalem flipped to me, and I never owned the city before in this game. Also noticed Cordoba can get really powerful, but doesn't like to use it's armies for offensive reasons. Ex: Bought a Crusade on Cordoba(City) and bombarded the city, and they had many units that could've beaten my small Crusader Army up, but chose to wait and die(they had many units leave the city and many workers enter it). At first I thought it might of been AI incompetance, but the I wondered, "Even the AI would have at least kept units inside of the city..." What could've made them do that, other than Portugal's spawn a couple of turns before there is nothing that would have prompted that. Even so I think the AI would at least defend a Capital rather than invade a new country...
 
Because we can stay cool and point out on which arguments we disagree. It seems that on several topics some of you can't. For example: I disagree on the statement that Sicily and Southern France should be OK. Some of you check who posted it, go on bizarre mode and then start typing furiously, which leads to a mix of hilarious and distasteful posting. Others, like me for example, give arguments why we disagree. Then the OP can reply again. There is no possibility to reply to a troll post. And remember the number one rule on the internet: fighting on the internet is cool to see, but unlike wrestling, the fighter himself is a weak person.
 
Too be fair, The Turk isn't half the prick, hell, not even a tenth the prick i thought him to be. He just thinks that RFC is a half-as*ed historical simulation, full of errors to be corrected. I think (and i have no idea what you folks think) that Rhye never wanted it to be a playable Wikipedia article. That's why he introduced stability. Otherwise, he would have coded a roman auto-collapse in 450 AD -bam-. That's like a gazillion times easier to code. And you wouldn't have those nasty loading times inbetween turns.
I talked once in a while about RFCE and it felt like backbiting if i wouldn't say it right to you. Well, i don't really like your mod. Not that it's not fun, it's just not fun for long. I had fun with it 2 years ago. Then i tried it a year ago, deleting it again pretty quickly. And last weeks, i gave it a try (noticed that Abu Bakr looks like a drag queen), played a few turns as Cordobans and saw that nothing really have changed. Than i checked the provinces (that hovering over a tile and pressing ctrl to see the whole province is still a cool thing :hatsoff:) and saw that Augsburg isn't even part of Swabia. It has always been one of the most important swabian cities and isn't in Bavaria in the modmod's timeframe. That was the final :twitch: and i deleted it.
But who am i to critize RFCE? I don't call myself important enough to demand radical changes. You can live with a few people out there who don't play it. It makes a lot of people happy, so you really don't need to consider my opinion. Don't take it bad :please:
Keep up the work anyways:goodjob:
 
There is something in the code which gives civs have a bigger chance to respawn. We can give the Arabs a bigger chance to respawn at those dates. But it should only be a bigger chance, not a certain thing, otherwise it would be too deterministic.

oh this could be really cool. Like 0% probability for byzantine and like 90% for Cordoba (not sure if its overall or per turn), but I support the ideas of people that when cordoba respawns it plays a sort of Algerian/Moroccan (Portugal and them would fight over morocco) pirate type civ.
 
I was wondering if its possible to make all the cities in North Africa Muslim instead of Catholic and Orthodox. ( maybe the cities can switch religion or spawn later with Islam). Because it looks wrong to see a Muslim Cordoba with all the territories inbetween Spain And Arabia being Christian. All those cities should have Islam or spawn later with Islam. (if its easy and worth the effort ofcourse). And really many of these cities should spawn after the the spawn of Arabia.
 
Back
Top Bottom