RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Chep]

of course it shouldnt be possible to just use any city for the uhv, but I thought maybe there was something like a 2x2 "region" thats considered Cordoba.

So, about the game:
It is now 1269 and I just conquered the final Portugese city, I fulfilled UHV1+2 but made the mistake of vasallizing spain instead of destroying it.

The beginning was nice, even without any free wins against the barbs they never posed too big of a threat since they only come out of 2 directions (from Leon and from southern Portugal) and can be stopped in Sevilla/Toledo.
What I found weird, was that barbs give unlimited exp - usually you cannot get more than 10exp from barbs, but my posted spearman in the hills reached the 17exp-promotion soon enough from them. They don't count towards the great general points but they do allow you to level your units before the start of spain.
Cordoba reached size 13 which luckily was enough for UHV1 - I possibly got quite lucky there since in my Byzantese games constantinople always was around 12-15.
The appearance of the spain...well I thought they were too weak (but then I thought the same of the Germans when playing with Burgundy in 1.1).
I like the new stability maps. But I don't understand why my stability changes the way it does. For example some of the (quite many) barbarian ships managed to destroy 2 of my fishing boats -> stability goes from 11 to 3 ??

 

[Chep]

okay, I need to vent. Are the f***ing French balanced in the SVN? They were the first ones I ever tried in RFCE and the reason I stopped playing it for a good while before deciding "maybe it's not all bad and this mod also has some positive sides". (I then tried Cordoba and Byzantium and loved the idea of the mod but hated playing it...thanks @ gilgames for suggesting the Venetians...)

Now I tried France, SVN...freaking barbs coming from everywhere plundering all my improvements, destroying my roads...usually they have no chance when attacking my cities but when they decide to pillage all my improvements... without the free wins vs barbs my tactic was to go for Milan (only 1 archer, non-hill) and then Marseille (1 archer, non-hill, but the city won't produce anything for a good while) or Firenze (1 archer, hill but nice production) with 3 of my axemen, 1 staying in paris to defend the hills (mostly the iron) against barbs. cities build 1 worker (except paris here I started with barracks, maybe archer would have been better) and then archers untill I research stirrup (Calendar -> Manorism -> Stirrup -> Architecture was my research path).
Since Lyon and Bordeaux are guarded by 2 archers each the next target would be Toulouse with the first mounted sergeants then the rest of France and then Germany...at least that was my goal... where did I go wrong? what would you do differently? expand slower so you can spare 1 mounted sergeant/axeman + 1 archer per city do defend against barbs?

and...seriously, a plague in the 500s? -.- (only in Rome, but forced me to close my borders thus severly reducing the spread of religion and halfing my trade route income)

edit: okay, I did it, there is more time than I initially thought. but the vikings that come and raze Calais 2-3 turns before the end of the deadline...wow that's just mean...fortunately I had one more settler ready. important was that I got Milan and Firenze up and producing as soon as possible since they can be more easily defended against barbs than most of France...In the champagne I settled on the wine (for an instant luxury res and the hill defense even though it is a really bad spot when dijon appears) - where do you guys usually do it?

 

[ezzlar]

There are some tricks you can use if France is too difficult. First, settle your capital at Dijon. This will cripple the Burgundians and it gives you that precious stone resource. Secondly, as Ionlysignin hinted, give your German spawn area cities to Burgundy when they spawn. This will probably cause war between them.

Also, place the German cities in worst positions ever.

 

[Chep]

hm, thanks but I'd consider that exploiting...and it doesn't really help with UHV1. I don't really think the game will be very hard from 840 on, no matter what cities Burgundy and Germany get.
but maybe I'm wrong, I'll see
but getting to 840 was pretty tough and takes quite some luck, I think. having stone really is nice, but only for the time after UHV1.

 

[ezzlar]

Yeah. It´s an exploit. We should have that function where all capitals transform into ordinary towns to discourage squatting in other civs spawn areas.

 

[Chep]

but if you want to go that way, why not: found Dijon as capitol, conquer Milan, Firenze, maybe even Marseille and Toulouse. By then you should have the first 3 Mounted Sergeants + 1 experienced Axeman -> conquer Augsburg and start building a Palace. Time it to finish between the start of Burgundy & Germany -> you get Dijon AND Augsburg and both civs should be severly crippled.
I finished the "conquest"-phase of UHV around 810-820 and then had to wait for my settlers to settle Calais and the German cities, so there should be enough time to do it, if you go for Augsburg earlier (maybe by then you won't have to deal with a city defender2-archer behind those pesky walls, like I had to -.-)

I think the biggest problems for UHV 1 of the French are:
1. barbs not attacking but pillaging roads and iron/horse-resources
2. cities declaring their independence (+mounted archer-barbs) -.-

if 2 happens while your army is 3-4 turns away it can get really, really tough. thats why I usually have my "city defenders" 1-2 tiles outside the city, keeping it empty, but that sucks when there are move3-barbarians threatening to take your cities from you

and now that you mention it, it might be a little annoying not to have stone with France...well that means an early conquest of burgundy is in order.

 

[ezzlar]

With Dijon capital I usually get Augsburg with city revolt.

 

[2phunkey4u]

Would you either move Beloozero to a different province or place a different city thereabouts, please? As it is, it messes with the conquest UHVs for Norse and Kiev.
Speaking of Norse, I decided to try place my capital next to the marble on the Swedish coast. I'm sure Odense is not the right name for that place.

 

[Chep]

having just played a little "Dawn of Civilization" I wanted to say

Thank you for RFCE.

This mod is amazing. and the amount of work you must have put in it is beyond me... I love the new coloured stability regions (SVN-version) and everything feels just so much more...finished/polished/thought out than in other mods.

 

[rfcfanatic]

I'm currently playing France on Monarch and when I set out to conquer Augsburg, I only found city ruins. Augsburg had been razed by barbs! By Germanic Tribes, Longobards or Avars or whatever they are called.

You may think that you will be safe with building 3 Settlers, but you are not. You'll need at least 1 or 2 backup Settlers!

 

[rfcfanatic]

Yay, I did it! French 1st UHV completed on Monarch! But only because I got lucky - conquered the last province Tuscany in 840 and Augsburg didn't get razed by barbs.

OK, but I have some stability problems now. The stability is shaky (-1). But why? I only did what was required for the 1st UHV.

 

[Rorgloin]

I think that prior to 840, the German provinces should be stable for France and then decay after the German spawn. That would help France's stability in building Charlemagne's empire and also would make historical sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Franks_expansion.gif
By this map, France really should be able to expand into Germany and France equally early on, without a stability hit. I think that if France is to continue representing the Carolingians, some changes need to be made. Right now, the French game prior to UHV1 is very difficult and requires a sort of all in devotion-- Charlemagne did more than conquer, but in the game, to achieve his conquests you have to mostly neglect building anything but troops and settlers (as far as I can tell-- tell me if you think I am wrong). Even if they got a bonus to movement speed early on, it could make their game a bit easier. An idea: include pre-placed roman roads, which vastly improve movement but cannot be rebuilt once destroyed. It also would look really neat-- they look great in Dawn of Civilization.

 

[AbsintheRed]

having just played a little "Dawn of Civilization" I wanted to say

Thank you for RFCE.

This mod is amazing. and the amount of work you must have put in it is beyond me... I love the new coloured stability regions (SVN-version) and everything feels just so much more...finished/polished/thought out than in other mods.

Thanks, great to hear this
But it's very far from being polished enough
Actually even some of the most basic things like the UHVs would need a lot of polishing
Balancing is on hold though, until the last step of major new features are in (new civs and SoI-type company system)
So RFCE is far from finished

 

[Rorgloin]

In nearly all of my games on the svn lately, Arabia fails to take Alexandria. I never see it take the rest of North Africa like it did historically. I think that the AI needs to be encouraged to conquer more of North Africa and at least should have an easier time taking Alexandria-- in Dawn of Civilization, though on a different scale, Egypt flips to Arabia. While I would rather not just have Egypt flip to Arabia, I think it should conquer Alexandria the majority of the time. The Byzantines have been too strong as the AI lately, I think.

 

[Mouthwash]

A few questions:

1. Why is Egypt so badly represented? You can't fit anything in there.

2. Why don't the Umayyads colonize or control North Africa? You'd think there would be some cities there for conquest.

3. Will Prussia, Italy, Scotland, Ireland, Switzerland, Finland, the Teutonic Order, and Belgium be added?

4. Will colonies become more detailed than they are now?

5 When will the next version be released?

 

[2phunkey4u]

1. Egypt is a tight spot but extremely fertile. You can have Alexandria, Domyat and Cairo in there and they all become very good cities.
2. With the latest SVN release, Arabs perform considerably better and often manage to take all of the Maghreb, sometimes even Anatolia.

 

[AdrienIer]

A few questions:

1. Why is Egypt so badly represented? You can't fit anything in there.

2. Why don't the Umayyads colonize or control North Africa? You'd think there would be some cities there for conquest.

3. Will Prussia, Italy, Scotland, Ireland, Switzerland, Finland, the Teutonic Order, and Belgium be added?

4. Will colonies become more detailed than they are now?

5 When will the next version be released?

1. Remember this is a mod about Europe. And adding even one line in the south for more Egypt would mean one line of useless desert everywhere west of Egypt.

2. That's part of the Arabian UHV, and there are some cities there (mostly Byzantine at first). Also Oran, Tunis, Tarabulus and a few others are in there already so I don't think there is a lack of cities in North Africa. The AI is just bad at taking faraway cities.

3. Teutonic Order/Prussia (as one civ if I'm not mistaken) will be in the next version. Perhaps Scotland as well, I can't recall what was decided in the end. For all the others you cite they didn't exist as an important politically united entity at any point during the timescale of the mod, so no way. This is not RFCE 20th century, Switzerland is useless and Italy isn't united just to list a few.

4. If you want fleshed out colonies try RFC DoC

5. I'm not in the modding team so I can't tell you for sure, but the new civs aren't modded in yet so I wouldn't expect it until this summer.

 

[Mouthwash]

1. Remember this is a mod about Europe. And adding even one line in the south for more Egypt would mean one line of useless desert everywhere west of Egypt.

So? And the Nile needs to be moved a few tiles West.

2. That's part of the Arabian UHV, and there are some cities there (mostly Byzantine at first). Also Oran, Tunis, Tarabulus and a few others are in there already so I don't think there is a lack of cities in North Africa. The AI is just bad at taking faraway cities.

No, they don't. They don't even take Alexandria.

3. Teutonic Order/Prussia (as one civ if I'm not mistaken) will be in the next version. Perhaps Scotland as well, I can't recall what was decided in the end. For all the others you cite they didn't exist as an important politically united entity at any point during the timescale of the mod, so no way. This is not RFCE 20th century, Switzerland is useless and Italy isn't united just to list a few.

What is the timescale of the mod? I would prefer it start from the beginning (3,000-2,000 BC), but it seems to be Medieval/Renaissance oriented. Switzerland isn't useless (it should spawn in the 13th century, so it isn't out of place), and Prussia is a completely different entity from the Teutonic order.

4. If you want fleshed out colonies try RFC DoC

Already did. I would prefer something a little more substantive, though. Like getting resources from colonies. Shouldn't there be a couple of land-based colonies in Siberia only accessible by Russia? Just a though.

5. I'm not in the modding team so I can't tell you for sure, but the new civs aren't modded in yet so I wouldn't expect it until this summer.

 

[DC123456789]

A few questions:

1. Why is Egypt so badly represented? You can't fit anything in there.

There's a long-term plan to expand the map, and I think it will include enlarging Egypt.

2. Why don't the Umayyads colonize or control North Africa? You'd think there would be some cities there for conquest.

There are cities, it's mainly a problem of the Arab AI being really incompetent right now. Byzantine Alexandria holding out is the main problem, in my opinion.

3. Will Prussia, Italy, Scotland, Ireland, Switzerland, Finland, the Teutonic Order, and Belgium be added?

As above, Prussia/Teutonic Order and Scotland will be added, probably soon. Italy and Ireland are far too divided in this time period (additionally there's Venice and Genoa), only uniting after this time period. Switzerland is small and didn't really have much influence, Finland and Belgium come too late (and are too small and insignificant).

4. Will colonies become more detailed than they are now?

See this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=490329 At the end, AbsintheRed says he's working on improvements. Hopefully he is.

5 When will the next version be released?

Not for a while, I would think, given this recent hiatus. But if you want the updates as they come use SVN.

 

[Mouthwash]

There are cities, it's mainly a problem of the Arab AI being really incompetent right now. Byzantine Alexandria holding out is the main problem, in my opinion.

Should it flip?