RFC Mesoamerica and Andes

[hangman]

It seems to me that many other things needs to be included first, like wonders, techs, unit types etc. to have a alpha version. UPs comes afterwards.

True. I'm working on the art defines files so I can get the worldbuilder up and running, then I'll do the map. However, I'd like to get a large selection of ideas before I decide on UPs, etc. so I can make more reasonable decisions. I do need suggestions for wonders, though. There aren't many modcomps available that I know of. Currently I have Chichen Itza, the Moai, Kumpi Mayu, and the Temple of Ah Cacau by Smeagolheart. I also want to do the Lighthouse of Tulum, but I don't currently know of any appropriate art files.

If you look for UPs you can get some "inspiration" from the History Of The Three Kingdoms mod. There is a similar system with some really nice ideas, like one fraction can vassalize to another civ if played by humans and brake free anytime they want, even if they capitulated. That f.e. could be used for Tlaxcala.

Sounds good, I'll look into it.

It's just nice to know if an idea is easily codeable, and even better when there already is such a code

Well it would be easier, but since there are already three regional RFC modmods out there, I think there's a potential pit fall there with flavor. But I'd definitely use them if they're appropriate.

I don't think contact between China and Greece before the Renaissance is beneficial in normal RFC. At least the Chinese had a longstanding trade relationship with Europe, but there is nothing of that sort that existed between the Andes and Mesoamerica.

I'm sure there are workarounds for that. I could just make Panama impassable, and open it up at a later date with python. Although contact between the andes and mesoamerica never happened in history, it was a possibility, and I think that possibility is worth being represented. Also, keep in mind that the timeline will run for some time after the Spanish arrive.

I don't think it's worth sacrificing the northern 2/3 of North America in order to squeeze the Andes and Mesoamerica onto one map.

The main reason I drew it that way was to include as many of the most "advanced" civilizations as possible while including relevant civs to fill the empty space. If I split the maps based on continents, most of the map would be baren for most of the game. I don't want to start the game in media res due to the general lack of material to work with. Also, the Caribbean would be difficult to accurately represent, imo.

Mesoamerican still too small compared to the South american which will make Mesoamerican too crowded at certain times but the South American being really sparse.. at least until the arrival of European...

Forgot to address this. Actually, I was also thinking about that too. I could exaggerate mesoamerica a few tiles going outward from the Gulf of Mexico. That would also eat up some empty space and give the Mayan civs more room to expand.

 

[BenZL43]

And also keep in mind that since they never grew so big and became an empires (mostly they're city states, right?).. It'll be wrong if we saw like a certain Civs grew so big and then control almost all of the south america or what..

I've got some suggestion btw..
-Since mostly SA & MA (South & Meso, respectively) are filled with different tribes.. rather than having them like ___ Kingdom.. we could represent them as ___ tribes.. and Settler do not build cities that evolve into something modern like in the what era but build villages?

 

[hangman]

It's an interesting idea, but I'd have to be careful with implementation, since many of the civs are true empires. I was thinking that maybe before a certain tech is researched, settlers would found indy cities with a couple of archers, and the city flips would only occur after the tech is researched. However, cities could still be conquered.

Not sure if that's the best way to do it though.

 

[hoplitejoe]

it may be worth getting the basics first i.e. city names, final civ list, time period before you begin to come up with any extra mechanism.
do you have a map yet? can we see it?

 

[hangman]

No map yet. I want to get as much art done as possible before I start with the map. I think I have a good timeline down though. It would make for quite a long wait for the later civs, but I'll probably just make a couple of later worldbuilder saves.

Also, I encourage any new ideas for the mod, even if I may not get to it for a while. Better to post it than forget it And it will give us something to talk about while I'm doing all the boring stuff.

BTW, I probably won't use many name maps. Probably one for each European civ, and a base map for native civs. We might be able to use different city names based on Maya dialects, Aymara, and P'urhepecha, but I doubt there's an Aymara word for "Port-au-Prince" On the bright side, that will probably save us a lot of tedious name mapping.

As I make changes, I'll edit the first couple of posts.

 

[Llama231]

What is going to happen from around 1800 to 900 BCE in South America?

 

[BenZL43]

Minor tribal wars between each faction led by a tribal leaders for either territory, or fresh water...

 

[hangman]

I'm back from a month in Morocco

I'll probably put in the Zapotecs at 1000BC. If the Zapotec, Olmec, or Caral-Supe civs are not human, then it's mostly just indie cities. There's not much gameplay there, so I may have to speed up the timeline.

I meant to post the map wip before I left, but oh well. It opens with SoI, so just choose the Byzantines and look at the WB. The general landform is mostly set, but everything else is still in developement. I exaggerated mesoamerica, and greatly exaggerated the Valley of Mexico. Resources are semi-random atm. Some are actually accurately placed though.

 

[BenZL43]

I've seen the map. Pretty impressive!
I like the Caribbean part most!!! And the Mexico is impressive also

Here's some part to be improved :

-The Panama Canal
-Mosquito Coast
-Ecuador & Peru Coast
-Around Lake Maracaibo
-Around Lake Tiwanaku
-More Polynesian Islands like the Pitcairn and such


I'm suggesting about adding the Polynesian Civs? It'll be great! And seeing that fantastic Island Byzantine spawn with, I'd really really love to live there it looks nice hehehe

 

[hangman]

I've seen the map. Pretty impressive!
I like the Caribbean part most!!! And the Mexico is impressive also

Thanks!

Here's some part to be improved :

-The Panama Canal

Yeah, it's ugly at this point, but I need to come up with some way to block contact between the continents until a certain time. Doing it with terrain is the most obvious way, but there are more elegent methods that I'll try when it becomes important.

-Mosquito Coast
-Ecuador & Peru Coast
-Around Lake Maracaibo
-Around Lake Tiwanaku

No argument there.

-More Polynesian Islands like the Pitcairn and such

I'm suggesting about adding the Polynesian Civs? It'll be great! And seeing that fantastic Island Byzantine spawn with, I'd really really love to live there it looks nice hehehe

I'm adding a civ for Rapa Nui (aka Easter Island, which is the island you're talking about) to represent the possible contact between polynesia and the americas. I intended it to function as a small city state, with a couple of other functions But if gameplay for Rapa Nui is too tedious, I'll add a few more islands nearby.

 

[hoplitejoe]

The general shape is great As well as the type of coast around panama the types of coast in the Caribbean need some looking at as well. Not being to get from Cuba to Domingo but being able to get from Venezuela to Domingo seems a little odd. Resources and terrain type can be worked on and buffed/nurfed once starting places are chosen.

 

[civ_king]

screenshots?

 

[BenZL43]

What I'm still thinking is, that map is too large for Civs who are mostly coastal..And that Brazilian part. Though it looks good, I just wonder who'll fill that place? lol

 

[angelitocarc]

you yould use the quinoa resource to and put it into the inca territory only, and great idea

 

[Optical]

If you extended the map to Brazil, the Tupí would be a worthy addition, I think.

 

[hangman]

What I'm still thinking is, that map is too large for Civs who are mostly coastal..And that Brazilian part. Though it looks good, I just wonder who'll fill that place? lol

It will be mostly empty, but I am including the Yanomamo and the Xingu. Apparently, there is evidence of a lost civilization centered at Kuhikugu.

If you extended the map to Brazil, the Tupí would be a worthy addition, I think.

I could probably include the Tupi as it is. I'm already using the Cunhambebe LH for the Caribs though, so I'd need to get a Carib leaderhead...until then, I'll hold off on it.

Alternatively, I could add the Guarani and maybe some other Amazonian tribes to fill up space. But again, that depends on if I can get some new LHs. I'm currently using each one I could find.



Does anyone know of any Andean wonders? I'm having trouble coming up with some. So far, I have the Cumbi Mayo and the Machu Picchu terraces with art files, and I also want to do the Lanzon from Chavin de Huantar. I'm also using puquios, suka kollus, and Nazca lines as buildings. Other than that, idk...

 

[MrBanana]

I'll give this a try when you release it.

For the Canal, make the tiles around it ocean so only the Spanish can cross it. And make jungle untraversible.

Something about the Spanish working the same way the Mongols do in SOI is amusing.

Also,: do you plan to include modern countries? Because they wouldn't get a lot of turns if you stopped at 1898.

 

[hangman]

For the Canal, make the tiles around it ocean so only the Spanish can cross it. And make jungle untraversible.

I've been thinking about adding extra jungle and coast type plots and making them untraversable so that it won't look any different, and then replace them with plots that are traversable later.

Something about the Spanish working the same way the Mongols do in SOI is amusing.

lol, yeah. I'm thinking of making their UP something like this: There will be an indie civ specifically for Spanish Conquistadors, and whatever cities they conquer get flipped to the Spanish. I also want to include some American units as barbarians lol

Also,: do you plan to include modern countries? Because they wouldn't get a lot of turns if you stopped at 1898.

That shouldn't be a problem. I can just edit CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml to whatever works best.

 

[BenZL43]

Kukihugu? never that heard one..

*wikipedia-ing*

nice! but couldn't it be a bit hard to get their LH name, UU UB etc?

 

[hangman]

but couldn't it be a bit hard to get their LH name, UU UB etc?

It's probably impossible lol but I'll just base it on whatever the documented tribes in the area have had.