Rhye's and Fall of Asia - Version 1.0

[Gem Hound]

I'll take a look when you update.

 

[merijn_v1]

Good point. I'll wait till he fixes some stuff before I disagree.

I would love to be proven wrong. That mod really has potential.

 

[civ-addicted]

Hello my friends

I'm back again.
I have done a lot of work for my studies, and as it turns out, I’m almost finished with my thesis.
There isn't much i can do now, though, because i don't have a computer around that works (i dismantled my old one because it made me see red). And when i can play again, there are new mods around that can be playtested Meanwhile, i can try to think about solutions of problems that has been posted here (i just browsed the thread).

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the patience and the interest while i was away, and especially thanks to merijn (i always got an email when you updated the SVN).
I think i'll play Genie in a Bottle and grant you 3 wishes. Just tell and i will try to code it in

 

[merijn_v1]

Welcome back

Here is a short list of python bugs (most of them are also in the first 2 pages of this thread. Especially post 19 numbers some). I haven't been able to fix them.

Spoiler :

UHV:
Mongol 1
Jurchen
Han
Chola
Qin

Triremes spawn on ocean (so they can't move anymore)
Settler on ocean

I also disabled the Ming completly. There still was a bit of code left that bugged the mod. I hope you can bring them back in the game.

I was thinking for an UP for the Tondo:
The Power of International Trade: Embassies provide +2
(Unfortunately, I don't know enough about python (yet) to code it)

I also wanted to launch a new version soon. (I just wait for Leoreth to give me permission to use his code for the Mongol UP) But now I think it's better to wait a bit longer, so you have time to fix some python bugs.

I'm also not sure if the music module is in the SVN or not. I think it should be removed from the SVN, so the main download won't be that big. I will also upload a wondermovie module soon.

 

[civ-addicted]

I'll answer some ancient posts, if i may

The Indo-Greeks also need a serious nerf. I tried a Gupta game and when I spawned they were close to finishing Ayurveda. Imo they shouldn't even be alive at that point!

They will get a nerf asap. I'll try to balance the early ones first, of course, and I was happy that Harappa, Zhou and Qin are balanced in a way i approve. There's just this thin line between making them weaker and unplayable.

Good job on your first beta. But I'm upset that you havn't changed the backgrounds yet

Thanks man
You can set whichever BG you want by going Advanced->Options->Graphic in the main menu, there's a drop-down box for them.

Mmh anyone can tell me what are all luxury resources ? I always loose with Greeks because of that. :/

Everything that gives a face without an extra building(i can provide a list if you want)

Feedback : their capital should start 1 tile west (near the river). The starting year is pretty weird, 330 BC is more Seleucids than Indo-Greeks, but I that was the name of the civ in a previous version.

I'm always a little puzzled that Kandahar is one of the best spots on the maps despite not being on a river. I'll move the capital 1e for testing purposes, making that will nerf them a little
Indo-Greeks are supposed to represent everything Greek in that region. First i wanted to name them 'Greeks' but choose the other name flavor-wise.

Also current Mongol UP is very unrealistic and good for AI only. Why would Keshiks spawn out of nowhere? DoC or even vanila RFC have more realistic approach. Can Keshiks spawn after you at least conquer a city? (unlike DoC -- no matter what size)

Yeah, something along those lines. At this rate of Keshiks spawning, one can overrun the entire map in 50 turns or so. I nevertheless canceled my first test run because UHV#1 is bugged: it's immediately denied.

I'll either weaken the UP (spawing Keshiks should stop at least after getting the MoH) or use DoC's instead, whichever turns out to work better gameplay-wise and historical.

Qin also has a divergence between UHV text and triggers.
I also found random barb triemes in the ocean around 500 AD and a Majapahit settler on a coastal tile off Borneo in 1300 AD.

I always forget about the Triremes in the ocean when i get to play that is just weird; but it helps when you want to play with Korea

I know. But I think the Ming were not completely disabled. In the code (from what I understand from it), they would still spawn. I disabled also that bit. I think this should solve the crashes when the AI is the Ming and they spawn.

I think I'm not capable of readding them to the game without any bugs. I'm affraid you'll have to wait until CA is back and can readd them.

Just for the record; it was Morholt who mentioned that in his thread that you can disable a civ by making their spawn date a four-digit number and removing them from the WB.

Started a game as the Song, and could not keep my economy in line. Inflation is so high, and no real way to earn gold right from the start.
Any suggestions?

Thanks, all this i already knew. I was thinking more in terms of the first 10-15 turns as my civ was loosing 30+ gold per turn with 0% research! I took one Tang city then the rest of China flipped to me killing what poor economy i had.

It was that every chinese civ inherited the techs from its processor (Tang from Han etc.) which always led to an OP China (Song was terrible). I tried to nerf them a little by giving them astronomical inflation rates but that didn't solve it, so i removed that inheritance before i released it...didn't meant to wreak the game

How do you complete Qin UHV with the 4 Wonders? I build Great Bath, Harbor, Wall, Granery and Arg e bam but it told me I failed. Which Wonders do I have to build?

i was sure that i updated the UHV text. You're meant to build the Great Wall and the Terracotta Army.

Can someone explain the Unique Power of Korea to me? What does it mean?

It means that f.e. a scientist usually granting 3 grants 4, a citizen with 1 gives 1 and 1 and so on.

Why doesn't RFCA has a sub-forum?
What are the requirements of a sub-forum?

I'm thinking about requesting one; it's just that this subforum makes little sense if every modmod has an own subforum.

Welcome back

Here is a short list of python bugs (most of them are also in the first 2 pages of this thread. Especially post 19 numbers some). I haven't been able to fix them.

Spoiler :

UHV:
Mongol 1
Jurchen
Han
Chola
Qin

Triremes spawn on ocean (so they can't move anymore)
Settler on ocean

i see.

I also disabled the Ming completly. There still was a bit of code left that bugged the mod. I hope you can bring them back in the game.

From the XML? I'm not sure if that might cause problems in the DLL

I was thinking for an UP for the Tondo:
The Power of International Trade: Embassies provide +2
(Unfortunately, I don't know enough about python (yet) to code it)

I wanted to give them an extra Trade Route which would be terribly OP, and i didn't thought of a plain Gold bonus That's good enough, i'll do that.

I also wanted to launch a new version soon. (I just wait for Leoreth to give me permission to use his code for the Mongol UP) But now I think it's better to wait a bit longer, so you have time to fix some python bugs.

I'm all for it.

I'm also not sure if the music module is in the SVN or not. I think it should be removed from the SVN, so the main download won't be that big. I will also upload a wondermovie module soon.

Sounds great. I like that organization in modules, that could become our thing

 

[merijn_v1]

I think it's better if you organize it that way, because you made the original Music Module. I don't know which sounds are in the module and which are in the main download.

I think you understood me wrong. I meant the music module as a seperate package. (Like it is now) But as a second thought, it indeed sounds good to have them as a real module.

 

[civ-addicted]

I think it's better if you organize it that way, because you made the original Music Module. I don't know which sounds are in the module and which are in the main download.

I think you understood me wrong. I meant the music module as a seperate package. (Like it is now) But as a second thought, it indeed sounds good to have them as a real module.

All tracks from the music module should be in a separate folder in Assets/Sounds/Soundtrack. I'm not sure if i've put them in the first Beta SVN update...

 

[Olafmikli]

Played the heck out of this mod and tested most civs, including Tondo which feels incomplete but is very playable.

Few Ideas and problems

1:The Qin 3rd UHV is a great one but for some reason it randomly fails despite having no time limit. If it's time limit is 210 AD thats a bit too early so you'd need to reduce it to say...50 or have it be 80 and 400 AD or possibly be 120 and no time limit.

2:It would be nice if the city map covered the same area for all the Chinese civs, rather than North China for Zhou and Qin and the rest for everyone else. Zhou would have the oldest name for every city and Ming would have the newest.
For example, if Zhou founds Suzhou it would be Heluzhou, then Suzhou, then Shanghai for older civs as that became more important than Suzhou. One problem I saw was Beijing was "Yan" rather than Ji for Zhou, yet it was Ji for Qin. Ji was the capital of the state of Yan, same thing for the other Zhou cities.

3:The Indo-Greek civ is great...but I can see room for improvement
*Name:Indo Greek sounds a tad...wordy. I don't know what they called themselves after Baktra fell but before that it would have been "Basileon ton Baktria" and if they expanded "Arche Baktria"..or something like that.
*Location:It would make more sense for them to start in Baktra and move south rather than starting in Arachosia and moving north. You'd have to move around the cities in the area for their capital to be worth a damn but it'd work out.
*UU:The Indo Greeks were more famous for the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi(Extremely heavily armored Companions) than they were for Phalanxes and unarmored horsemen.
*UP:Ehh...Hellenism was old by that point and Baktria converted to Buddhism pretty early on. A money based UP would make more historical sense.
*UB:If you would change the UP the UB could be a gymnasium.

4:The stability buildings don't make much sense to me, do they increase stability or not? I had all of China and Korea as Zhou with every single stability building built and I had -27 stability.

5:Nobility+Caste System/Meritocracy is really really powerful, I'm not sure if that's fair or not.
As Khmer I went from -50 gpt and then after switching to Nob/Cas I was making 300 gpt. This is exacerbated by all the free specialist buildings and I can't imagine how powerful this would be as Korea or Tang.

 

[civ-addicted]

Played the heck out of this mod and tested most civs, including Tondo which feels incomplete but is very playable.

Welcome! Seems like you enjoyed it

Few Ideas and problems

1:The Qin 3rd UHV is a great one but for some reason it randomly fails despite having no time limit. If it's time limit is 210 AD thats a bit too early so you'd need to reduce it to say...50 or have it be 80 and 400 AD or possibly be 120 and no time limit.

The problem is the displayed UHV text. I'll update it in the SVN this afternoon or evening.

2:It would be nice if the city map covered the same area for all the Chinese civs, rather than North China for Zhou and Qin and the rest for everyone else. Zhou would have the oldest name for every city and Ming would have the newest.

That was my plan from the beginning The problem is that the cityname map is a lot of work to research, and i'd rather use the few weeks off to balance it the game.
Any help is appreciated.

For example, if Zhou founds Suzhou it would be Heluzhou, then Suzhou, then Shanghai for older civs as that became more important than Suzhou. One problem I saw was Beijing was "Yan" rather than Ji for Zhou, yet it was Ji for Qin. Ji was the capital of the state of Yan, same thing for the other Zhou cities.

Zhou has the names of the respective states rather than its capitals, i like it and it gives them a unique touch. Seeing that the Zhou held those states as vassals rather than controlling the cities itself it's even a better choice historically.

3:The Indo-Greek civ is great...but I can see room for improvement
*Name:Indo Greek sounds a tad...wordy. I don't know what they called themselves after Baktra fell but before that it would have been "Basileon ton Baktria" and if they expanded "Arche Baktria"..or something like that.
*Location:It would make more sense for them to start in Baktra and move south rather than starting in Arachosia and moving north. You'd have to move around the cities in the area for their capital to be worth a damn but it'd work out.
*UU:The Indo Greeks were more famous for the Hetairoi Kataphraktoi(Extremely heavily armored Companions) than they were for Phalanxes and unarmored horsemen.
*UP:Ehh...Hellenism was old by that point and Baktria converted to Buddhism pretty early on. A money based UP would make more historical sense.
*UB:If you would change the UP the UB could be a gymnasium.

I'm just about to redo the Indo-Greeks to make them less OP.
I'm planning on making the Gymnasion a World Wonder because it gives them a UB virtually (which is in fact not intended), and i think that a weaker Indo-Greek Kingdom will need another UP as well.

4:The stability buildings don't make much sense to me, do they increase stability or not? I had all of China and Korea as Zhou with every single stability building built and I had -27 stability.

Keep in mind that it's a one-time bonus, and you need to have already a low stability to make it work.
Rhye coded it in a secret way that civs will get stability problems the longer they live, so it's rather unlikely to have a strong Rome the whole game. And holding Korea as Zhou isn't part of the plan
I say secret because noone seems to have a plan how it works; RFCE had a problem with that (seeing that France needs to be strong the whole game), so they did the stability module all over.
Anyway, those are the things that still can be balanced out.

5:Nobility+Caste System/Meritocracy is really really powerful, I'm not sure if that's fair or not.
As Khmer I went from -50 gpt and then after switching to Nob/Cas I was making 300 gpt. This is exacerbated by all the free specialist buildings and I can't imagine how powerful this would be as Korea or Tang.

That's true indeed. I always wondered why in Vanilla BtS Caste System didn't gave infinit Engineers, and the truth is that an extra hammer per specialist (if you can have Engineers instead of Citizens) is really really powerful, so you don't need to worry about mines or anything. I often thought about removing them, but that would make Harappa unplayable.
I think that Nobility can be tuned down though, because it's just to strong in human hands.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Civciv5]

I a game I was playing as the Gokturks.
The Ghurid Sultanate was conquering all of India and even launched a invasion to Burma and China
And they were the most powerfull nation since the Song collapsed (I claimed the Mandate of Heaven)and I greatly weakened the Mongols in a war and destroyed their capital city of Khanbaliq.
Suddenly they attacked me in the late game after I demanded something from them,they tried to capture Lhasa,but I managed to repel the assault,then I tried to invade India with +-70 units,I managed to destroy some cities but then they destroyed all of my units and I did it over again.
It did not help.
The Ghorids did not conquer all of India,they don't even conquered Delhi in reality.
I think they are too powerfull,maybe you can add the Sultanate of Delhi?

 

[merijn_v1]

You have a point. The Ghorid conquered more land to the west.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ghori_Dynasty_1149-1212_(AD).png

I think they should represent the Delhi Sultanate, but they have a wrong name. I will change their name to the Delhi Sultanate. And the can represent the Mughal Empire from 1526 on.

And wouldn't it be better if they spawn in 1206 (according to wikipedia, the rise of the Delhi Sultanate), instead of 1148, as they do now?

 

[civ-addicted]

I just remembered that this fraction had quite some changes. They started as Sindh (which was too unimportant), then they became the Mughals (which came way too late), then they were the Delhi Sultanate (which were still to late), then they became Ghorids, but they were just too close to Ghaznavids, and it was me who finally moved them to where they are now.
Moving them earlier seemed necessary since the timeframe was cut to 1500AD instead of 1600AD (a wise decision of Black Whole considering a bunch of new civs and religions for the very late game). Having them as the Delhi Sultanate is way better than the Ghorids; the first was there for ~300 years, the other one for ~60 years. Bear in mind that Ghorids and Delhi Sultanate are still related in terms of history and can be seen as part of the same "civilization".
Moving them back to 1206 is still possible, i played them once as they are now and thought that the game is doable. Honestly, it's not my top priority to think about them, so i let you decide what to do with them.

Anyway, i just finished a game with the nerfed Indo-Greeks in the SVN. For the AI, their empire is smaller and less powerful at the Gupta start (i don't think it's that big a deal that they are still around), and in human hands the UHVs are doable, and it even seemed to me that they are slightly easier
I'll make some changes (making them a little harder), 2 or 3 more games, and i can proudly announce that all civs from Harrapa to Indo-Greeks are balanced out

 

[srpt]

just wanted to say I really enjoy this mod and that it gave me a lot of inspiration for my own mod covering the classical era (generously defined as being from 300BC to 800AD). thanks especially for all the art, which is a great resource (and I hope you don't mind it being used). the 2 mods share many civs and it will be interesting to see the similarities and differences in how they turn out.

thanks and keep up the great work.

 

[merijn_v1]

@ Civaddicted

I downloaded your last commits, but now I can't play a game anymore. It seems there is a little bug in the python files you changed.



Some Ideas/Changes:
1. Change the Khmer spawn at from 610 AD to 790 AD. According to the civilopedia, the Khmer existed from 790 to 1431.

2. New UP of Tibet: All cities that are on hill tiles provide +3 (that will be 5 in total) This will allow Tibet to grow better, especially cities in the Himalayas without any Pastures and Camps in it's BFC. But this isn't as overpowered as the original UP (+1 on hill tiles)

3. Tondo UHV 1: "BUILD 7 embassies in 1250 AD" instead of "HAVE 7 embassies in 1250 AD". This makes their UHV harder. Now, you can win that UHV without doing anything, because the AI builds many embassies. So you will automatically get 7 embassies. If you have to build them yourself, you have a race with the AI to be the first to build the embassies.

4. If we don't have too many Wonders already, here a 2 more: The Golden Pavilion (Not sure about the bonus) and the School of Conficus: Provides 1 random GP.

 

[civ-addicted]

@ Civaddicted

I downloaded your last commits, but now I can't play a game anymore. It seems there is a little bug in the python files you changed.

I obviously uploaded another file that i was playing with -___- I'm kinda relieved that the error is in Barb.py, because that was the only way i could think of getting rid of the Ocean Triremes. A fix will come later, i just run some test games to see if i can curb AI Han.

Some Ideas/Changes:
1. Change the Khmer spawn at from 610 AD to 790 AD. According to the civilopedia, the Khmer existed from 790 to 1431.

I just moved them to let them start as Chenla, because a that late Khmer start left a mess in SE Asia. Either Vietnam was OP, or if Khmer had a lucky day they were totally OP. Right now, they are exactly the buffer state we need. Also, playing Vietnam felt strange because you didn't have to fear anything for a long time.

2. New UP of Tibet: All cities that are on hill tiles provide +3 (that will be 5 in total) This will allow Tibet to grow better, especially cities in the Himalayas without any Pastures and Camps in it's BFC. But this isn't as overpowered as the original UP (+1 on hill tiles)

That seems fair. If i come to Tibet, i'll try that out. The exact amount can be adjusted later, no one wants that desasterous UP from the early versions

3. Tondo UHV 1: "BUILD 7 embassies in 1250 AD" instead of "HAVE 7 embassies in 1250 AD". This makes their UHV harder. Now, you can win that UHV without doing anything, because the AI builds many embassies. So you will automatically get 7 embassies. If you have to build them yourself, you have a race with the AI to be the first to build the embassies.

That sounds like the better choice indeed. I'll write it on my to-do list, because i'm trying to make the early game more balanced, and i promise that i will come to it later.

4. If we don't have too many Wonders already, here a 2 more: The Golden Pavilion (Not sure about the bonus) and the School of Conficus: Provides 1 random GP.

imo we already have enough, but i can include the Golden Pavillion if you think that Japan needs a buff in one way or another.
Btw, the art you included is really amazing. How did you make the button for Trireme, Transport and Galley?

 

[Olafmikli]

Here's a few problems I've seen, sorry if you already know them.

1:Jurchen and Mongols cannot seem to acquire the Mandate of Heaven, thus making their UHV's impossible even if all Chinese states and independants are destroyed and they run Confucianism as State Religion.
2:Indo Greeks last too long. While Plausible for them to do this, Islamic Invasions should soften them up after the White Huns invade to make it a bit harder yet not deterministic.
3:Gupta never expands past Bengal.
4:Korea has really terrible city placement.
5:Chinese dynasties, even the Song rarely colonize or invade Southern China.
6:Japan seems excessively weak, only having Kyoto and being surrounded by barb Japanese cities and having almost no tech.
7ossibly related to 5 is that South China has really awkward resource placement making cities a headache. I figured out the best combinations but it still feels odd.
8:Tibet constantly invades east China and seems overly aggressive overall.
9:Same with Korea on aggressiveness, had them invade with scouts as Indo-Greeks.

 

[Civciv5]

In my game the Mongols claimed the Mandate of Heaven numerous times,I don't know about Jurchens...

 

[Olafmikli]

Yeah, I may be wrong about the Mongols but as Jurchen I control ALL of China and no indepedents or native Chinese(or even the Mongols) are alive. I'm Confucian with 50+ Stability and a good economy.

Oh and I've found that the Great Wall had never been built by 1200 and I can't built it either. Unless it was built on some stupid island I don't see any of it's walls.

IMO any civ should be able to claim the Mandate, just have to be stable owning China(which is hard as anyone other than a Chinese or Nomad Civ, possibly Nanzhao would be able to do it.

 

[civ-addicted]

Yeah, I may be wrong about the Mongols but as Jurchen I control ALL of China and no indepedents or native Chinese(or even the Mongols) are alive. I'm Confucian with 50+ Stability and a good economy.

Oh and I've found that the Great Wall had never been built by 1200 and I can't built it either. Unless it was built on some stupid island I don't see any of it's walls.

IMO any civ should be able to claim the Mandate, just have to be stable owning China(which is hard as anyone other than a Chinese or Nomad Civ, possibly Nanzhao would be able to do it.

You need to have your Palace in China, that's the basic requirement. The Jurchen and Mongol AI gets it for free, the human player has to build it by itself.

 

[Civciv5]

I claimed the Mandate of Heaven as the Gokturks and my name was changed to "Kong Empire",
but I didn't control all of China,but I had my palace in China.
I managed to do that because the Song collapsed,except the Mongols,which I "expelled" from China and greatly weakened them.
Where do you actually get the names from when your civname changes when you claim the MoH?
Tibet is actually a part of "China",but it doesn't count in the game..